AC Installation Advise - D90 with 2.5TD Engine

[bsjbrown]

Ok living where I do - oppressive Texas Heat. The defender I have purchased from the UK which is to about to arrive is coming with an AC Kit that is being sent in the box from the company I purchased the rover from. It is the kit from Bearmach. My landy is an 88 LHD 2.5 TD and she looks great. Mechanically restored, but not remanufactured. The AC is not being installed in the UK for that reason - I don't want to chance it getting held up in customs. I know the kit is probably for a 300TDI so what additional parts will I need to get to install it. Assuming a new pulley for the compressor to fit the belt and probably an AC Tension Pulley. Need some guidance and advice please.

[Les Parker]

Can you supply some more info on the A/C kit? That would give some insight as to what is included and additional parts required.
If it is a 300 Kit, all the engine mounts for the A/C will be of no use (it uses a poly belt drive), the 2.5 TD/TDi all use V belts. So pulleys, tensioners etc. are not the same.

2p

[o2batsea]

The 2.5D air conditioning parts are on pages 107 thru 110 of the Defender parts catalog that you can find on line (http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Defender_Parts_Catalogue.pdf). You can also look it all up on numcat.ru. Seriously doubt there are any of those things available any more tho. Try Paddocks and plug in some of those part numbers to see if you can still get them. I think that some of the 200 Tdi parts are the same so you may want to leaf thru those sections of the parts manual for the AC parts for that engine. I know that you can still get the double water pump and crank pulley cz I ordered them for my 200 Tdi. The 200 Tdi uses a adapter for the front cover that replaces the regular injection pump timing pulley cover. This uses a RRC style v belt tensioner. Also cruise eBay.co.uk for sellers offering Tdi parts...they may have the AC adapter stuff unadvertised. Shoot 'em a note...can't hurt. Les is partially right but the 200 Tdi (Discovery flavored) and the 300 Tdi use the same cast aluminum AC mounting bracket. Only the pulleys are different. It's a fixed mount that basically just holds the compressor in place on the engine. Belts adjusted by tensioners.
Anyway hope that helps.

PS An alternative is to change over to a york type compressor and fabricate a mount. This has been done (Ed Kang did one for his On Board Air) before and is a pretty simple deal to fab from angle. You hinge one side and use a big bolt on the other end to add tension and then you run it off the water pump double pulley. Think oversized door hinge with a compressor on one flap and the other flap bolted to the engine front cover and a bolt to close the hinge. Not as pretty as a "factory" installation, but it gets the job done.

[bsjbrown]

Thanks for the advice - At this point I have no clue what is in the kit. All I know is it was sourced from Bearmach by the outfit that I purchased my Landy from. It is "coming in a box in the back". Now what I was told by them in an email today was as follows:

You will not need to alter any of the pipes or hoses, these will all fit and operate perfectly. The conversion will happen as follows. You will not need a narrow pulley, just a simple serpentine pulley and an idler pulley of the same width. The serpentine pulley sourced will need to be bolted between the water pump pulley and viscous fan, with the pulley now fitted to the water pump a hand fabricated bracket will be needed to locate and mount the compressor in relation to fitted water pump pulley. The sourced belt can now be fitted and dependant on belt length will determine the location of sourced idler pulley.

The shopping list is as follows:
1 x Serpentine pulley approx 5” diameter (to be mounted to water pump)
1 x belt (to run between compressor and above mentioned pulley)
1 x idler pulley (to correspond with belt width)
1 x hand made bracket to mount compressor to engine.

So I guess at this point the belts are pretty easy. I have requested the part numbers for the two pulley's so if anyone knows those that would be excellent as I will just order them locally - figuring those should be same for my 2.5TD as they would be for 200TDI??? Or hoping? As respects the bracket - I am really hoping the compressor in the kit is a Sanden. Their US HQ is right in my backyard in Wylie, TX - no less than 20 minutes away and they have universal brackets available for their compressors that are easy to fabricate. These brackets are priceless according to my friend who is a Certified Mechanic and is going to assist my inept rookie rear end on this project.

If its not a Sanden - then I may just go get a Sanden anyway then sell the one in the kit on E-bay or something. So this question is to you Les - does Rovers North have the required pulleys? If so - I am ready to order them - NOW with expedited shipping and a red bow on them please. Let me know.

[bsjbrown]

And yes - The York type Compressor is also a consideration. Again my more qualified partner in this job is going to make the call when we get the kit. It all depends on what compressor comes in these kits. To be honest I have called Bearmach and frankly I can't seem to get any good answers.

Working with our Cousins from across the pond every day I have come to accept the fact that to a Brit 100 miles is a long way and to an American 100 years is a long time - meaning either they have no sense of urgency or we are too demanding.

Either way - Pretty is not the goal - getting it mounted and secure is the goal - I could care less what it looks like as long as it works :D

[Les Parker]

There is no pulley that Landrover offers that will work "off the shelf". I'm not sure where the info came from detailing approx 5" diameter pulley for fitting on the water pump. We can supply the tensioner/idler pulley for the 300 TDi, though I would have thought that would be in the kit.
The 300 Tdi pulley (on the centre front cover) # is ERR3735, I'm not sure if this will bolt to your water pump though. In stock, price is $252.78 :)

[bsjbrown]

There is no pulley that Landrover offers that will work "off the shelf". I'm not sure where the info came from detailing approx 5" diameter pulley for fitting on the water pump. We can supply the tensioner/idler pulley for the 300 TDi, though I would have thought that would be in the kit.
The 300 Tdi pulley (on the centre front cover) # is ERR3735, I'm not sure if this will bolt to your water pump though. In stock, price is $252.78 :)

Les - Everything in the italics below is from the General Manager of the dealership in the UK where I purchased the vehicle. After I received the attached photos today I am now actually rather concerned and somewhat miffed (pissed off for lack of a better word). Based on what I can read - and I can read English - the box says 300TDi (LHD) - so exactly how is that supposed to fit on a 2.5TD? It wont based on everything I have read and I am reading.

I did not pay extra for the kit - it was part of the vehicle. They stated they did not want to install it because it could have caused issues with importation - I think they did not want to install it because they could not install it. This is going to turn into about the biggest SNAFU I can possibly imagine.

At this point I can't worry - will just have to wait for the vehicle and the kit to arrive and then see what is there. I may be ordering more than just a pulley or two, it may be a whole lot more. No AC not going to prevent me from driving the car - its just going to make it rather miserable. Last summer we had 40 days in a row where the temp was over 100 Deg. As a daily driver - this will not be a good thing.

80788079

[Les Parker]

So, when the vehicle arrives, please shoot some clear pix of the engine bay and the contents of the A/C kit and I'll endeavor to assist where ever I can.

[bsjbrown]

Les - Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I will send them over. Again I am quickly coming to the realization that I am going to have to either upgrade to a 300tdi or I may have to god forbid get the International 2.8L tdi (the powerstroke engine) I have been reading about. Would rather keep a Rover engine. I know I will have to do some modification to the engine mounts on my chassis but I believe there are kits for that without having to replace the entire chassis. Of course other modifications may be required.

But that is the fun of a Rover.

[nate6472]

Les - Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I will send them over. Again I am quickly coming to the realization that I am going to have to either upgrade to a 300tdi or I may have to god forbid get the International 2.8L tdi (the powerstroke engine) I have been reading about. Would rather keep a Rover engine. I know I will have to do some modification to the engine mounts on my chassis but I believe there are kits for that without having to replace the entire chassis. Of course other modifications may be required.

But that is the fun of a Rover.

What company in the UK did you get the AC kit? I am looking for one for my 88 D90 3.5l v8. Thanks

[nate6472]

I hope customs does not give you fits with the "box in the back".

[bsjbrown]

Should be ok as long as it is on the manifest. Customs is going to give me fits anyway because it is a Defender. That is how they roll. Would have rather they shipped it DHL or something but beggars can't be choosers. According to my customs broker I have we will be fine with the boxed parts.

Bigger concern is installing the damn thing and the parts. Just going to wait and see what happens. My HS friend with his Turbocharger performance shop did volunteer his machine shop guys if I needed some special fabrication. My welding skills suck - really really suck. I can turn a wrench but with a welding torch - nope.

[nate6472]

Customs should not care about it being a defender, being 25 years old they should care what it is, especially with a small engine. My last import was a defender and it was no different from the previous Series.

[nate6472]

Ok living where I do - oppressive Texas Heat. The defender I have purchased from the UK which is to about to arrive is coming with an AC Kit that is being sent in the box from the company I purchased the rover from. It is the kit from Bearmach. My landy is an 88 LHD 2.5 TD and she looks great. Mechanically restored, but not remanufactured. The AC is not being installed in the UK for that reason - I don't want to chance it getting held up in customs. I know the kit is probably for a 300TDI so what additional parts will I need to get to install it. Assuming a new pulley for the compressor to fit the belt and probably an AC Tension Pulley. Need some guidance and advice please.

Google classic auto AC Kits. There are a lot of AC kits for unique, older cars. Many under the dash units in the $900 to $1500 range. Since no one has anything for me, this is the route I will check into further when she arrives.

[bsjbrown]

Well I am good there. Documents are in order and VIN is good - 25th Birthday was Feb 14th, 2013. Which is exciting. Nate - have you had difficulty sourcing parts for your imports? I know the Rover North guys have good selection and have seen others. Lots for 300TDI which is not even supposed to be over here yet as they are not even 21 years old yet to my knowledge - which is funny. But not lots for the 2.5 TD.

[nate6472]

Well I am good there. Documents are in order and VIN is good - 25th Birthday was Feb 14th, 2013. Which is exciting. Nate - have you had difficulty sourcing parts for your imports? I know the Rover North guys have good selection and have seen others. Lots for 300TDI which is not even supposed to be over here yet as they are not even 21 years old yet to my knowledge - which is funny. But not lots for the 2.5 TD.

I had only 1 diesel and no problem with parts from RN and others when they did not have it. The diesel should not require much attention other than filters (RN has all these). Maybe glow plugs eventually but should not be an issue, even if order from UK. With my last 84 110 2.25 petrol, I even ordered some from the UK. Usually had the part within 7 days and the price with shipping was ok. Most expensive part I have found is the front doors for 1984 and later - crazy expensive and too big to ship from UK where they are reasonably priced. Just keep your door bottom dry inside - I have heard a UK trick is to fill with wax.

[ArlowCT]

Make sure that wax has a high melting point. :). But that shouldn't be a issue with a/c.

[bsjbrown]

I had only 1 diesel and no problem with parts from RN and others when they did not have it. The diesel should not require much attention other than filters (RN has all these). Maybe glow plugs eventually but should not be an issue, even if order from UK. With my last 84 110 2.25 petrol, I even ordered some from the UK. Usually had the part within 7 days and the price with shipping was ok. Most expensive part I have found is the front doors for 1984 and later - crazy expensive and too big to ship from UK where they are reasonably priced. Just keep your door bottom dry inside - I have heard a UK trick is to fill with wax.

Wax? Not worried about keeping them dry here. We are in drought conditions in North Texas and do not see any relief for some time. If I was back in Houston I would be somewhat concerned with the humidity. What type of wax would I use? I have seen some sealants used and found some documents for waterproofing the Defender. May use that.

[bsjbrown]

Make sure that wax has a high melting point. :). But that shouldn't be a issue with a/c.

That is if the AC Kit installs. We shall see when it gets here. I am starting to relax a bit more over the whole issue and realize it will get done. Have friends in low places with machine shops that can help me fabricate what I need to. May take a bit longer than a weekend but the job will get done one way or another.

[dreamin88s]

thank you for posting this as I too would like a/c for the 2.5na,just wondering if the low hp of the 2.5 could/would keep up the a/c with it's lack of power when driving

[bsjbrown]

I think it will be fine with respect to the HP. The AC Compressor is powered by bests to the water pump and will continue when idling. I don't think the HP or lack of will cause too much of an issue. Once I get it installed I will let you know how it works. Have to pick up the car first - waiting on CBP to release after they do their obligatory checking of VIN etc.

[Maryland 110]

I think you over estimate your engine as far as the load the compressor will put on it.

Your engine is a v belt engine. It sounds as though they have supplied a homemade compressor bracket as the td front timing cover isn't set up for a/c. You will have to drill and tap the timing cover in order to mount the compressor bracket. You will need a disco 200tdi front crank pully if your crank pully doesn't have an empty belt slot. The access plate on the front cover that gives access to the injection timing adjustments is replaced with a 200 tdi cover that has a tnesioner built in. this is how its been done on the older trucks I have seen a/c on. If you have a serpentine belt setup I don't see how they intended that to work.

[bsjbrown]

Personally I have no clue why the sent me the two pieces of equipment they sent to me. They sent me an AC Belt idler pulley for a 300 TDI which is a serpentine belt. That will not work. I have ordered an AC Belt idler pulley for the 200TDI from an outfit in Houston. They will have it to me on Tuesday. They also sent me a Pulley for the water pump - 300TDI - again not going to do a thing because we are dealing with a V-belt versus a Serpentine belt configuration. Essentially I do not believe the guys in the UK that sold me this vehicle have a clue about the installation of the AC Kit they provided with the car.

I am not going to do anything as far as ordering parts until I get the car and have a look at what is in in the AC Kit and what is currently under the hood. I know that I will have to fabricate a bracket for the AC Compressor to mount it to the engine. I may or may not have to change out the water pump pulley - depends on what is there already. V-Belts do allow for a bit more versatility in how you can get the system to work. I also know that if I do need an AC Idler Pulley the one for the 200tdi that I ordered will work with some slight modification to the mounting bracket.

This is just going to be a wait and see situation - once the vehicle is released to me from customs (fingers crossed this week) then I will tackle this AC issue and figure this one out. Right now I am blind not knowing what is in the AC kit and not knowing what is under the hood as far as current equipment.

For your amusement the parts I received from the folks in the UK were the following:

Drive Belt Tensioner ERR4708
Pulley Water Pump ERR3734

I already know just from schematics and my repair manuals - neither of those parts will do a thing for the purpose of installing an AC kit into my 2.5 Diesel Turbo.

[bsjbrown]

Les thanks for the assistance today on the pulleys. Let me know what you find out on the Compressor mounting parts. Also does anyone know if I will have to change Alternators from the current 45AMP to 65AMP? Obviously will want to do all of this at one time.

Have found some Universal mounting kits for Sanden Compressors for special engine applications. May be SOL on the parts but will let everyone know how this turns out.

[bsjbrown]

Gents for all those interested. I have now found everything needed to install the AC kit thanks to everyone at Rovers North. The 300TDI kits work but it requires you to not use the compressor that comes in the kit. You need to source a new Sanden Compressor which I have done. When my pulleys come in I will start a new thread with Photos and the step by step instructions on installation, including Parts needed and where to get them.

Essentially the Kits you get for the 300 TDI will work for the older engine and the modifications are very minor. Shopping list besides compressor also includes new alternator, AC Tensioner Pulley (may not be needed) and the Mounting Bracket for the compressor. More information to follow after a few weeks.

[RoverDover]

Has DHS let your truck out of Jail yet?

[Maryland 110]

Gents for all those interested. I have now found everything needed to install the AC kit thanks to everyone at Rovers North. The 300TDI kits work but it requires you to not use the compressor that comes in the kit. You need to source a new Sanden Compressor which I have done. When my pulleys come in I will start a new thread with Photos and the step by step instructions on installation, including Parts needed and where to get them.

Essentially the Kits you get for the 300 TDI will work for the older engine and the modifications are very minor. Shopping list besides compressor also includes new alternator, AC Tensioner Pulley (may not be needed) and the Mounting Bracket for the compressor. More information to follow after a few weeks.

Of course they work. The only part of the kit that is sensitive to what engine you have is the compressor. The rest of the system is universal with the exception of some plumbing bends to mate with different compressor locations.

[johnsondml]

I did one couple years back to to 2.5 n/a , I bought an after market kit online from one of those ac companies for a classic mustang and made the compressor bracket and an a/c company locally made up the hoses for me...also upgraded the alternator to 110 amp..I fabricated all the mounting brackets, pretty decent for my first time...here in miami you need a/c

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