Importation Rules Changed ?????

[nate6472]

I just spoke with us customs Brunswick. I have a D90 coming in May 6. She said "oh, no" when I said Land Rover. She said they are really cracking down on Land Rovers coming in and seizing if anything is not original. I expressed concern since I have 1 coming in and I followed the rules as posted on US Customs website. She said if the seat belts, wheels, etc are not original then it is not allowed in. I asked how they can do that when we follow the rules they posted. She said I need to speak to top person at that office. I have no idea if mine is 100% original, I just made sure the engine is, as the CBP site says. I have call into a broker but this is pretty scary !!! Any input would be appreciated.

[ThePhotographer]

Best to inquire with people like Doug C or Derek C, rather than absorb speculation from a forum like this. You will often get answers from people that lack the experience or even correct information. Best of luck!

[derekchace]

I also hope it hasthe original chassis, engine type, is the right body type when chassis number is decoded and does not have any newer puma, wolf, td5 body panels. Of those are all met it should me good.

Easy rules older then 88, no galvi chassi, no tdi engine and looks original.

[o2batsea]

In a nutshell, if it is all original and more than 25 years old ur good. Modifications such as newer engine, chassis swap, will draw attention.

[Contractor]

I just recently imported........nerve racking yes, but as long as it's 25 years old and has the original motor and chasis and does not look severly molested you should be good.

Mine cleared customs in two days.

[l.a. rover]

can a 1987 rover be brought in since it is now 26yr old?

[derekchace]

Yes

[bsjbrown]

Derek C.

So qualification is chassis, engine and mechanical components. Having a face lift like paint, seats, new carpet, tires etc. would not be an issue. Reason I ask is because mine is arriving this Sunday. Right now according to my stateside broker no holds are being placed so it should clear and I can pick it up on Tuesday. I have received the official Certificate from Land Rover of Date of Manufacture 12/16/1987 and the VIN's all match - engine, chassis etc.

Only change is new paint, seats and repair work done overseas. Obviously if I have to export or it be destroyed the outfit I purchased from is reputable. They would not even add AC to the Landy because that modification may have caused it to be not allowed for importation to US - hence my AC kit is sitting in a box in the back of the Landy.

Before pictures and after pictures attached. Thoughts?
8164816581668167

[derekchace]

Should be ok but customs has been doing some odd **** lately so you neve know

[nate6472]

I have imported 5 without an issue. Just spoke with a broker (never used one before) and all this comes from ports letting engine converts in when that is a strict no no. Customs is upset with land rovers because DOT is making them spend more time checking them out. They are short staffed and sometimes easier to just seize. Does anyone heave UK land rover number so I can call to verify my VIN and engine numbers? Thanks

[bsjbrown]

Should be ok but customs has been doing some odd **** lately so you neve know

Not sure if this is vote of confidence or not. Well I will soon find out. I have the evidence to prove it is 25 years of age. Photographic and Certificate of Manufacture from Land Rover including UK V5C forms (all original). So I guess if a CBP agent wants to get chippy with me I will slap him silly with a lawsuit. That I can do rather easy and with the documentation I have I will get the car released to me eventually.

Frankly I am sick of the "Big Brother" BS we have to put up with. We have a govt. that can't balance a checkbook and obviously they purport to know what is best for all of us. Not wanting to get on a rant here but I really am sick of what we have allowed our Government to become - bloated, ineffective, and incompetent - led by professional politicians - so ends the rant.

[bsjbrown]

I have imported 5 without an issue. Just spoke with a broker (never used one before) and all this comes from ports letting engine converts in when that is a strict no no. Customs is upset with land rovers because DOT is making them spend more time checking them out. They are short staffed and sometimes easier to just seize. Does anyone heave UK land rover number so I can call to verify my VIN and engine numbers? Thanks

My Certificate which is the Confirmation of Date of Manufacture Came from the following (on Land Rover Letterhead by the way)

Land Rover
Abbey Road, Whitley
Coventry CV3 4LF, UK
T +44 (0)870 5000 500
F +44 (0)1926 691 938

The problem I believe you may have is that they have to physically inspect the vehicle. Not sure but that is about as much as I can give you from my end.

Good luck.

[derekchace]

Good luck beating CBP in a legal battle.......

[bsjbrown]

Good luck beating CBP in a legal battle.......

Thanks - as an attorney I have a few tricks up my sleeve. The CBP and the US government is not immune in the court system especially when they are wrong. Not saying it is going to come to that eventuality as I am confident of the vehicle's authenticity (although I have not seen it other than photos) but the reputation of the outfit I purchased from does have merit and is without blemish.

Just received word the only Hold right now is the standard X-Ray of the container. Will find out tomorrow about an examination. If that happens, I am still not worried as the paperwork is in their hands. It is just frustrating that what I am doing is above board and legal by the letter of the law (and spirit) yet the immense resources and manpower being used to catch those who do not is mind numbing.

To be completely honest the importation rules as set forth by the DOT and the EPA are draconian and outdated. They are not intended for any other purpose than to protect the business marketplace. Look into the history of the implementation of those regulations. You will be somewhat surprised at what you find.

[derekchace]

I import them for a living I know

[Revtor]

The red truck looks awesome! I hope it has original engine and #'s match. . Would hate to see a beauty like this lost to the BS..
Good luck with your import!!!!!


keep us in the loop. .

[nate6472]

The broker and CBP official stressed original condition although this is not mentioned on the CBP website for guidelines. New paint, off road tires, lights, tint, etc are not "original" I think too much authority is given the import officials. BTW, I hired a broker for the first time and she shared the story about the siezure - definately too many issue plus it had a 300tdi

[bsjbrown]

The red truck looks awesome! I hope it has original engine and #'s match. . Would hate to see a beauty like this lost to the BS..
Good luck with your import!!!!!


keep us in the loop. .


Thanks - she is and I have seen the VIN's and they all match - she is original with exception to interior work and the paint. Heck even the bonnet is original. Only minor body work done - repair only no replacement. Engine was tuned etc. but nothing altered. I wanted AC put in as I live in Dallas, Texas and yes it does get a bit warm here in the summer. However that would have been an alteration and that is why the AC kit is in a box in the back of the car.

The way I see it I have enough documentation, pictures and everything verifying authenticity that I could win a battle if I have one. As such I can allege:

Unlawful seizure of Property
Violation of Due process statutes (if I am not allowed to intervene with my documentation)

They are really hot on the trail of Land Rover Defenders as of 04/15/2013 press releases. But hey, lets just ignore the real crooks getting stuff through our borders.

[bsjbrown]

The broker and CBP official stressed original condition although this is not mentioned on the CBP website for guidelines. New paint, off road tires, lights, tint, etc are not "original" I think too much authority is given the import officials. BTW, I hired a broker for the first time and she shared the story about the siezure - definately too many issue plus it had a 300tdi

US Customs has defined "original unmodified condition" as a vehicle that has not been significantly altered from its original key structural or mechanical configuration. This means a vehicle can be sympathetically restored, repaired or reconditioned but that it cannot be fundamentally altered. You cannot import a vehicle that has a contemporary engine (unless that engine is formally approved by the EPA); a replacement chassis; an automatic transmission conversion, a modernized drive or suspension system, or that has been converted from right hand drive to left hand drive.

[Maryland 110]

The problem is the term "sypathetic" is completely arbitrary.

You may well have trouble with your MUD Uk center dash pod and new seats, carpeting etc as those are viewed as modifications/modernization, not restoration. The way seizures work is there is no back and forth with the inspecting officer. They are very cloak and dagger and usually refuse to communicate,so there will be no oportunity to offer your documentetion until after they decide to deny entry. I would be extremely suprised if your container is not selected for an intensive exam as all inbound containers with Land Rover on the manifest are being advance targeted prior to arrival.
Ping me @ doug@dividingcreekimports.com if you get jammed up.

They have lightened up a bit. I have had 5 trucks clear in as many days in 5 different ports.

[bsjbrown]

The problem is the term "sypathetic" is completely arbitrary.

You may well have trouble with your MUD Uk center dash pod and new seats, carpeting etc as those are viewed as modifications/modernization, not restoration. The way seizures work is there is no back and forth with the inspecting officer. They are very cloak and dagger and usually refuse to communicate,so there will be no oportunity to offer your documentetion until after they decide to deny entry. I would be extremely suprised if your container is not selected for an intensive exam as all inbound containers with Land Rover on the manifest are being advance targeted prior to arrival.
Ping me @ doug@dividingcreekimports.com if you get jammed up.

They have lightened up a bit. I have had 5 trucks clear in as many days in 5 different ports.

Thanks you have echoed some of my concerns as well. That is the issue I have been debating over an over - there is no defined term by the CBP on what is "remanufacturing", "modification", "restoration". It is completely subjective and has been frustrating me through this entire process. I keep going back to a legal definition of "remanufacturing" and trying to find a precedent as set forth by the CBP and can only find is the attached letter from 1999 to HarLand Rover Restorations (http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/20592.ztv.html).

However replacement of ancillary equipment - as long as that equipment was originally available back in 1988 should be a compelling argument. One could argue the seats and carpet were not in former, original, normal, or unimpaired condition. The MUD center dash being a cosmetic bolt on could be removed and therefore now it is in compliance. The same could be said for any other new parts provided. It is a compelling and confusing situation and has been driving me nuts.

The news I did hear today from my customs broker is that the hold for Intensive Examination is no longer on my file. As of 4PM it had not been noted that the X-ray was completed however she was told the container had completed X-ray and was being moved to a non-customs hold area of the port.

What we 'theorize" is when it arrived Customs advised us they were going to perform an intensive examination but that it was going to be dockside. What I am hoping is that since it has been sitting there since Sunday morning the CBP Agent performed his intensive exam dockside while it was waiting on the X-ray exam. Appears the Port of Houston only performs the container X-ray exams on Wednesday and Friday. So essentially they did the intensive first then for procedure performed the X-ray exam on the container.

Now none of this has been verified officially on the computer systems so I will know for sure in the morning - keeping my fingers crossed on this and hopefully they have done what they need to do and done it in amazingly efficient time. Having been a US Army Officer (mobilized in the first Desert Storm back in the 90's) I am skeptical that our Government can be that efficient. However I would be pleasantly surprised if that is in fact the case and all of this is done and over with.

However I will ping you if for some reason there is a log jam. Otherwise I will be flying to Houston either Friday or Monday and driving the Landy home.

[bsjbrown]

Well my thoughts that CBP was efficient was not correct. It is being moved to the Bonded Warehouse for Intensive Examination and the initial key entry was an error (not surprising). So now it will sit and wait for them to perform the exam. To be honest I am somewhat upset with the unscrupulous individuals who have caused all of this to happen by importing them illegally. They have essentially destroyed this process for those of us who are following the rules.

I have a question - why do I see all these Rover's for sale out there with 300tdi Engines when that engine design will not be 21 years old yet for at least another year or two? Assuming those are some of the illegal Rovers that were imported, or in some cases legally imported but engine swaps were done with an illegally imported engine?

I know there is no back and forth with the inspecting officer but if something was to go wrong there is an appeal process. Furthermore there is an Ombudsman that I can contact related to CBP. So right now it is wait and see and from there I will proceed as needed.

[Maryland 110]

If they did the intensive then there no point in the VACIS/x ray. Intensive means they open the container and inspect the cargo. All ro/ro vehicles are inspected, containerized cargo usually only gets x rayed. If your container was given an "intensive" a the port that would be a first. Customs has designated warehouses @ every port where they dray a container to and inspect the cargo. Taking a container out of the stacks and setting it on the ground so an officer can inspect it has never happened to me in 80+ containers. USDA has done it that way a couple times- they call that a "tailgate inspection". Well aware of what happens if it goes awry, I have imported hundreds of defenders. Got my fingers crossed for you.

[bsjbrown]

If they did the intensive then there no point in the VACIS/x ray. Intensive means they open the container and inspect the cargo. All ro/ro vehicles are inspected, containerized cargo usually only gets x rayed. If your container was given an "intensive" a the port that would be a first. Customs has designated warehouses @ every port where they dray a container to and inspect the cargo. Taking a container out of the stacks and setting it on the ground so an officer can inspect it has never happened to me in 80+ containers. USDA has done it that way a couple times- they call that a "tailgate inspection". Well aware of what happens if it goes awry, I have imported hundreds of defenders. Got my fingers crossed for you.

Thanks - Appreciate the support and good Karma. Its at the bonded warehouse (Port of Houston has two of them) and this is the one my Import Broker was going to have it at for unloading anyway irrespective of Intensive exam or not. So it will sit there and wait. . . . . . . .and wait . . . . . until the agent does the intensive.

Since you have had some recent experience and considering the recent austerity measures aka budget cuts, what is the time you are seeing for delays for the intensive exams? My broker advises about 5 days based on last Rover that went through Port of Houston (about 2 weeks ago).