Replacement Axle Housings / Diffs / Drivetrain

[nz rover]

Well - I finally picked up my first Series - a '66 109 Station Wagon. I just moved back from New Zealand and had to bring it with me. I'll post some pics once I get a chance.

My question is this - I am doing a V8 / NV4500 swap and really need to beef up the drivetrain. As it has the stock axle housings and diff (non-salisbury) I'm wondering if anyone makes a full blown replacement housing or if there are similar bolt-ins from later model rovers?

How do people approach this? I've tried to get some answers but haven't seen anything along these lines. This is high up on my list because I need to do a disc-brake swap and don't want to get all the adapters if I can just get a full set up (axle housing, diff, axles, brakes) from a donor or vendor.

Can anyone advise of potential options here? Thanks in advance!

[I Leak Oil]

Given your criteria any set of axles you go with will be custom. So I guess the next step would be to decide if you want to keep them rover or are you OK with another brand?

[nz rover]

I'm certainly ok with another brand. I would lean towards something that had somewhat of a cross reference (later disco, FJ, etc) so I could source replacement parts when things brake.

As a relative rookie to the Series scene, is there an option to beef up the internals (axles, diff, etc) while maintaining the factory housing?

[SalemRover]

Its worth looking here.

http://gbrutah.com/

I am not sure if he is still making the half shafts but this would be a great option as well.

http://www.seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html

[JSBriggs]

The the stock housing itself is plenty strong enough, and you can upgrade teh tin cover with an 8" weld on pipe cap. There are several axle upgrades out there. ROAM and GBR are both quality. As for the diff itself Ashcroft, ARB, or a P38 4 pinion carrier will be stronger. GBr has a wide variety of ratios available as well.

-Jeff

[I Leak Oil]

Certainly worth doing some investigating on Google. There is lots of info on modifying the stock rover axles as well as full on swaps to toyota and the like.

My personal view putting a ton of money into the rover axle isn't worth it compared to just doing a complete swap. Again, that will also depend on your skill level and ability to go either route yourself. If you have to pay someone then it will be expensive either way.

[TeriAnn]

Given your criteria any set of axles you go with will be custom. So I guess the next step would be to decide if you want to keep them rover or are you OK with another brand?

Geeezzz

1. Contact advance adapters and talk to Matt. Advance Adapters has an adapter to go between an NV4500 and Series transfercase.

There is a picture of one on this page (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/advance_Adapter.htm).

2. The Salisbury axle assembly will hold up to a V8. The Salisbury is the stock rear axle for a SIII 109. It is a direct bolt on swap on an earlier 109. You need the SIII 109 rear propshaft to go with it because the Salisbury has a longer nose.

I have been running a Salisbury behind my 5.0L V8 without any problems for 14 years now. Everything behind the NV4500 is a straight bolt on if the transfercase is in the stock location. If you need to move the transfercase rearwards you will need a military crossmember (it bolts on) and custom length front & rear propshafts. You will also need to put a divot on the front top of the under the bulkhead crossmember just under the front propshaft for extra clearance.

3. You will need to convert to power steering to fit the V8. Hit up NZ or UK wrecking yards for a used RHD RR P38 power steering box. Get the pitman arm & lower steering column that goes with the steering box.

4. Convert to an aluminum cross flow radiator that will sit on top of the front crossmember instead of behind it. You will need to modify the radiator mounts on the radiator bulkhead.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/engine_conversion_V8.htm

[I Leak Oil]

Geeezzz TeriAnn:cool:, that's all good info but it doesn't address the front axle and his desire to just use a complete set with no adapters, disc brakes, etc. Agree that a Salisbury is a good fit and he obviously knows about them as he already mentioned it. I have one in my 88" with no complaints. Although I think I'd upgrade to bigger shafts if I were going to run a V8, that's just me though.

I wish someone would sell an affordable set of HD front shafts though. That and the discs are what really drive the cost of bolt on rover axle mods.

[nz rover]

TeriAnn- Thanks for the info. I was on to your site quite some time ago and just saw you made the pages of LR magazine. Nicely done!

As for the axle housing it really comes down to simplicity. I drive my vehicles a lot, so I have a bias towards a more traditional set-up. Unfortunately that seems to have a broad meaning. (In my head I was hoping someone would say "a 2007 Silverado has identical specs, just bolt them on. Fat chance).

I've got just about everything else lined up, t-case to NV4500, NV4500 to engine. It's just a matter of getting housings and axles to hold up with out spending years of effort on geometry.

I see salisburys here and there for about $2k, but am having a hard time with that cost. I've looked into Moser, Strange, etc (I have a hot-rodding background) but again then it's hours upon hours of angles, adapters, etc. If you can't tell, yes, I'm going in circles here. If anyone has a lead on some affordable salisburys let me know.

I'll keep a look out for the SIII salisburys. (Do people run them in the front as well, 4x4 is new to me)

And, food for thought. Have you seen the GM LFX engines? I have spent countless hours trying to get specs / bellhousing, etc because it would be an incredible retrofit. 320hp all aluminum V6. Unfortunately the tuning appears to be a nightmare, there are no adapters (not even Advance) and it has a built in exhaust manifold which could be awesome and simultaneously awful. I heard there was a guy in Texas who did it but it seems to be folklore at the moment.

[TeriAnn]

Geeezzz TeriAnn:cool:, that's all good info but it doesn't address the front axle and his desire to just use a complete set with no adapters,

No adapters? You need to adapt the bulkhead to fit the V8. You need to adapt the frame engine mounts to fit the V8. You need to adapt the radiator bulkhead to fit a radiator big enough for the V8. You need to modify the gearbox tunnel, at least one of the floorboards, the accelerator linkage, and seat box where it meets the gearbox tunnel. And you need to convert to power steering if you want to be able to change spark plugs. So what is an off the shelf adapter between the gearbox and transfercase in comparison?


disc brakes,

You can still install a set of Torrel front disc brakes for very roughly 60ish % what it would cost to install everything for either a Heystee or Roam Offroad front disc brake conversion. I would recommend going to the Heystee 8 inch servo unit with the conversion. The Series servo has a 6 inch diaphragm and provides less boost then Land Rover ever coupled with front disc brakes.

Land Rover used a servo with an 8 inch diaphragm (50 series) with their first disc brake Defenders. Heystee sells an 8 inch diaphragm Santana servo that is a bolt on fit to a Series brake tower. The LR servo has a different pedal attachment. After a few years LR went from the 8 inch servo to a 10 inch servo. A 10 inch servo requires a Defender brake tower and a deluxe bonnet for vertical clearance. And even then the increased length of cut into the wing top could be noticeable with the bonnet down.


I wish someone would sell an affordable set of HD front shafts though.

You and me both. The hardened 24 spline front axles are VERY expensive. I gather the machining for the U joint ends is where the cost is. On the other hand most of the power goes to the rear axles while offroading and the stock front axles can handle most of the offroading use if you don't have an engine with crazy torque. I have broken one 10 spline front axle during the first 21 years of driving my 109 and it was with the 2.25L petrol engine. Afterwords I put 10 years of driving on 10 spine front axles with the V8 before upgrading to the 24 spline fronts. The front 10 splines didn't break during that time. On the other hand I'm easy on the throttle when off road. I only upgraded to the 24 spline front axles because I got a super duper sweetheart deal on a slightly used pair from someone who was upgrading all axles to 35 spline to go with an engine swap.

You can get front Salisbury and ENV axle assemblies but they are very pricy. I'd guess about the price of front hardened 24 spline axles.

[I Leak Oil]

All that bolt on stuff sure does add up. LC axles are out there and if you can do reasonable fabrication they can be installed for relatively short money and you have all stock, parts store replacements. Really depends on what you have for skills, cash or a combo of both.

[TeriAnn]

As for the axle housing it really comes down to simplicity. I drive my vehicles a lot, so I have a bias towards a more traditional set-up. Unfortunately that seems to have a broad meaning. (In my head I was hoping someone would say "a 2007 Silverado has identical specs, just bolt them on. Fat chance).

That's where the swap to stock SIII rear axle assembly and rear propshaft comes in. They are a direct bolt on swap. Unbolt one, roll it out, roll in the new and bolt it back together. It is about as simple of an upgrade as they come.



I see salisburys here and there for about $2k, but am having a hard time with that cost.

I gather the price is for a rebuilt assembly ready to install. Used ones in good condition can be a lot cheaper, but they are mostly found in the UK. I pretty much lucked out on mine. I was in the UK and purchased a used stock SIII rear axle assembly from a SIII 109 being parted out. It cost me 75 pounds. As it happened I had a friend who was putting together a container of LR stuff to ship to the US. So I finagled a free ride of the axle assembly to the US. You might look into the cost of a good condition used one in the UK and the cost of having it shipped to the US on a pallet.



I've looked into Moser, Strange, etc (I have a hot-rodding background) but again then it's hours upon hours of angles, adapters, etc. If you can't tell, yes, I'm going in circles here.

I can see the completed conversion cost being more than the US cost of a rebuilt Salisbury. The other thing to look at is what happens if you do break a part or you need new seals or bearings. With a Salisbury you just order off the shelf SIII 109 parts.

Your other easy option is to keep the stock Rover axle housing, buy a 24 spline rear diff from ARB, Trutrac or Detroit locker, buy aftermarket hardened 24 spline axles and Salisbury 24 spline drive flanges. You keep your stock rear propshaft. I have never priced it out but it is the alternative to a Salisbury that is a bolt on solution for both 88 and 109s.


I'll keep a look out for the SIII salisburys. (Do people run them in the front as well, 4x4 is new to me)

The One Ton model of Land Rover came stock with ENV axles front and back for SIIA. These are very strong. The Series III One Ton models came with front and rear Salisbury axle assemblies. These axles were also used under the Land Rover armored cars, some firetruck models and some special order commercial vehicles. The rear Salisburys are a lot more common because they were used under all SIII 109s and early One Tens up through 1993.


And, food for thought. Have you seen the GM LFX engines? I have spent countless hours trying to get specs / bellhousing, etc because it would be an incredible retrofit. 320hp all aluminum V6. Unfortunately the tuning appears to be a nightmare, there are no adapters (not even Advance) and it has a built in exhaust manifold which could be awesome and simultaneously awful. I heard there was a guy in Texas who did it but it seems to be folklore at the moment.

I have never heard of the engine. 320 HP on an aluminum V6 sounds like the engine is highly stressed. Also aluminum engines tend to be very sensitive to overheating. I'm leery of an aluminum engine for a full size offroad truck. The LR aluminum engines do not have a reputation for being high mileage trouble fee engines. I've preferred cast iron engines because they wear well and tend not to warp if overheated.

A few thoughts:

1. I always thought a 109 with hard top wanted at least 120 HP to be drivable on US highways. Most of the time between about 120 and 200 HP is plenty for carrying heavy loads anyplace in the US. 10 spline fronts and Salisbury rears with stock propshafts can easily handle the loads and power. As you go up from there you start adding increased stress if you put your foot into the bucket very often. Off road driving should be done easily unless you are into competitive hill climb or offroad racing. Unless you are pulling heavy trailers up hills you really don't have much reason to go over about 200 HP.

2. When looking at V engines look at its dimensions. You are looking for a a narrow V to have room for the exhaust and to be able to change spark plugs.

3. Engines come and engines go. The factory will provide parts for an engine for 10 years after the engine is discontinued. How long aftermarket parts will be available for them will depend upon how popular the engine is. You can easily get parts for the Chevy 350 and the Ford 5.0 because they are very popular engines they are used in a lot of swaps. There are a lot of very good engines that do not have part support much past the 10 years of factory support. Unless you plan to sell the truck when parts are still available I suggest staying away from engines that are not popular among auto enthusiasts.

[TeriAnn]

All that bolt on stuff sure does add up. LC axles are out there and if you can do reasonable fabrication they can be installed for relatively short money and you have all stock, parts store replacements. Really depends on what you have for skills, cash or a combo of both.

Its a fabrication vs bolt on thing. There is engineering involved in any swap and if you get it not quite right you will be unhappy with the results. I would rather get a FJ45 if I wanted a long wheelbase 4X4 with Toyota parts. Everything is engineered to work together. Just like having a 109 with 109 parts.

Besides you would have to purchase a another set of wrenches and workshop manuals :p

[SafeAirOne]

I see salisburys here and there for about $2k, but am having a hard time with that cost. If anyone has a lead on some affordable salisburys let me know.

Reasonable one for sale here:

http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?3091-Salisbury-Axle

[I Leak Oil]

Besides you would have to purchase a another set of wrenches and workshop manuals

A) You can never have too many tools!
B) I don't need no stink'n manual! Eventually things come out right....

[antichrist]

You don't really say what your intended use is. Depending on what that is, another valid option is D1/RRC axles. They are dime a dozen at scrap yards, particularly the pull it yourself ones. They serve probably 99% of those V8 drivers well. If you need added insurance you can replace the carriers with 4-pin units and even peg the diffs if you want. Just cut off the coil mounts and weld on your leaf spring mounts. You won't even have to change wheels. Your track width will be a little more, but shouldn't be bad.

[I Leak Oil]

Coiler axles aren't a bad option for sure. The rear is pretty straight forward. The front is a little trickier. You have the steering to work out. The PS leaf spring mount runs into the pumpkin housing so you need to be a little creative there as well. After all that effort I'd still look into other, more robust, options. But like Tom prefaced, it depends on what your intent is.

[rickv100]

Take Land Rover badge and bolt it to a late model truck. Simpler and cheaper in the long run.

I don't understand why people take a truck and try to build it into something it was not built to be.

Your money your truck

Rick

[I Leak Oil]

Your money your truck

That's really the answer for those who modify as well as those who choose to keep it all stock. Weaknesses and all. There really is no single right path that fits everyone.

[TeriAnn]

A) You can never have too many tools!
B) I don't need no stink'n manual! Eventually things come out right....

C) and you get to build up your collection of spare parts with the parts left over after the work has been completed.

:) :confused: :eek:

[I Leak Oil]

Always!

[o2batsea]

If it were me, I'd contact Safari HP and get in line for one of the Snatch HD salisbury front axles he has coming in (assuming the truck is RHD) Then you'll only have to deal with the spring perches if you stay leaf sprung, and the steering shyte as well. However with all that meat under the chassis you better be putting power steering on your list of mods, then you won't have as much re engineering of the front end to deal with.
I'd also pop for a salisbury rear and do the disc brake swap on it.
I question the NV4500. They aren't all that wonderful a transmission and fitting is a pain especially on a series. What engine are you using? A very nice setup is a Rover 4.6, Stumpy R380, LT230 1.4 and the front and rear Salisburys with 265 tires.

[TeriAnn]

I question the NV4500. They aren't all that wonderful a transmission and fitting is a pain especially on a series. What engine are you using? A very nice setup is a Rover 4.6, Stumpy R380, LT230 1.4 and the front and rear Salisburys with 265 tires.

Having driven a LR with a T-18 granny low gearbox for 10 years before replacing it I question any gearbox with a granny first gear ahead of a transfercase. Maybe if I had a full on rock buggy where a 70:1 or lower ratio would be needed but not on an all terrain Land Rover. The granny first is for trucks that do not have a transfercase. You use second on up for the street and the granny first in lieu of having a transfercase.

The NV4500 has a huge jump between first and second gears:
GM - 6.34:1 first & 3.44:1 second
Dodge - 5.61:1 first & 3.04 second
Stock LR C suffix & later - 3.60:1 first & 2.22:1 second

Compared to the LR gearbox the NV4500 has a huge gap between first and second gears where there are no ratios available. So for street driving the NV4500 is a 4 speed gearbox. When you switch to low range, low first is too low for all but rock crawling and you will still find yourself using second & third gear off road.

When Land Rover went to a five speed gearbox they chose close ratio five speeds to put in front of their transfercase. All the gears are useful on pavement and there is no huge ratio gap between first in second when off road. All the gears are useful all the time.

A stock Series truck with suffix C and later transfercase (stronger then the suffix A & B) has a low range first ratio of 40.70:1 at the axle. Personally I always thought that was too high and often found myself feathering the clutch to try and go slower through rough areas. For general off road driving in a Series rig I feel that something in the area of 50:1 to 55:1 would be ideal for all but the rock buggy terrain.

If I were looking for a 5 speed I would be looking for a close ratio gearbox that has a first gear somewhere around 4.5:1 and an overdrive fifth gear. When I gave the T-18 the boot I opted to stay with a four speed because it would not require any modifications and would be a less expensive swap. The longer 5 speed would require redoing the transfercase cross member, shortening the rear propshaft, lengthening the front propshaft, possible front propshaft to under the bulkhead crossmember clearance issues under full articulation, possible modifications to the mechanical brake linkage and who knows what else. My truck was already dialed in the the length of a four speed gearbox so I stayed with one.

I chose a close ratio NP-435 and kept the Ashcroft high ratio transfercase behind it. If I were starting from scratch to engineer a system I would look closely at close ratio five speed options. The drive train that o2batsea mentions makes a lot of sense except I'm not convinced that the R380 is strong enough to be uber reliable behind a 4.6. They have a reputation of occasionally breaking for no apparent reason behind a 3.9.

I've never researched the newer 5 speed options it there should be a rugged close ratio top loader five speed out there somewhere. The newer light trucks can't all be automatics. I hope.

[nz rover]

Just checked Safari HP and didn't see what you were referencing. Do you have a direct link?

As for power - probably just a mild crate small block chevy (not LS). And transmission - NV4500 looks like a ton of fabrication so I am open to other options as long as there is a built in overdrive, but it's the best I've seen so far. The body is coming off of the chassis so I'm ok with fabrication work - but I notice the installs to date are rather intense.

In a nutshell the proposal is SB 350 -> NV4500 -> Series Transfer Case - Salisbury front / rear.

I was looking into the 4.3L V6 but thought the NV4500 was too much transmission for it. 4.3 obviously has it's appeal though.

[o2batsea]

Sorry. Found original post on d90:


Hi All,

Found one Snatch Salisbury ft axle. Complete with arms. Comes off of a 1988 Snatch. Runs/drives now. Would assume all brake parts will need to be replaced.

Overall nice shape

$1450 delivered to Atlanta

Will be here in about a month to 6 weeks.
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As for your engine choice, nothing wrong with a small block chevy, 'cept it's a cast iron engine so it weighs quite a bit more than the all aluminum Rover V8. The Rover engine with a mild cam and stage 2 heads will get the HP you want and you avoid all sorts of fitment issues. You can bolt up the Stumpy R380 to it and have your 5 speed, and an LT230 transfer case gives you all the low range you can eat.
A 4.6 is very competitively priced to a SBC, and an R380 with the stumpy bellhousing is about 1600 straight from Ashcroft including shipping. LT230s are almost free for the asking.
Matter of fact I am hoarding a 3.9V8, R380 and LT230 from a Disco which can all be yours for $800 plus the ride. It's ready to drop in and go. Was going to use it for a project but....
Anyway that's just an example. All it would need is the stubby bellhousing from Ashcroft and the R380 input shaft swapped.
Nothing against a Series transfer case, but since you are going with "modern" drivetrain, the Series Xbox poses some issues with linkage and the handbrake.
The LT230 can be either directly operated via lever linkage or with cables. The hand brake is a little better and you can put an X brake on it no problemo.

[o2batsea]

Depends on your driving style i think as far as the V8/R380 thing goes. Since you are uprating the axles, the drivetrain "fuse" moves up to the next weak link. Instead of busting an axle shaft, you're gonna bust diffs.
"Buck Wild" Dave was using an R380/LT230 behind his Tdi and running Rovertracks axles and 44s. I don't recall him breaking transmissions, mostly diffs.
If you are in a rock garden and feathering the clutch and blipping the throttle lightly you won't break stuff.
Keep in mind TAW has a pretty heavy rig loaded up with gear.

[nz rover]

Still plugging along on this project and want a sanity check - There are two types of diffs on a '66 109", right? Banjo or Salisbury? If it's not one, it's got to be the other--- right???

Second - If paired to an NV4500, does it make most sense to convert to a 3.54 ARB air locker (24 spline) instead of the 4.70? I just want to make sure I've read this whole post correctly.

Thanks all. Pics soon.

[I Leak Oil]

66' should have what you call banjo diffs front and rear unfortunately. 24 spline, ARB, 3.54 should be fine but pricy. You have to change front and rear gears if you go with the 3.54 though.

[toga Rover]

I have front/rear 1-ton Salisbury axles sitting in my barn.
Came off my '73 SIII 109.
They are in Saratoga Springs, NY.
4.70 gears.
All brake bits included.
PM me if interested.
(My 109 now sits on Disco Axles)

[I Leak Oil]

Just to be clear, that isn't a salisbury front though. Just a regular rover diff with the better 6 cylinder brakes. Decent deal though if you're looking for a salisbury rear.

[o2batsea]

Still plugging along on this project and want a sanity check - There are two types of diffs on a '66 109", right? Banjo or Salisbury? If it's not one, it's got to be the other--- right???

Second - If paired to an NV4500, does it make most sense to convert to a 3.54 ARB air locker (24 spline) instead of the 4.70? I just want to make sure I've read this whole post correctly.

Thanks all. Pics soon.
You're still evading the driving requirements question. It's too hard to say what's right if you are not forthcoming.
Do yourself a favor and drop the NV4500 notion. I hate to say it's a dumb idea, but there are far better options. I'd rather see you put an NP 4 speed in it than that 4500. First gear on the 4500 is almost useless to you. You'll probably find yourself starting in second gear on the road, and find few instances where you need it off-road.
Salisbury vs Rover diffs. Salisbury axle is stronger because the axle shafts are fatter and the ring gear more robust. Ratio changes are more problematic with them although they can take a regular DANA 60 ring and pinion. The ARB locking diff for them is good, but a Detroit locker in the rear is pretty much bulletproof and requires no external plumbing. If I am not mistaken TAW uses automatic lockers both front and rear and she runs what I would call a heavy truck on them without trouble.
Rover diff you can plunk a 24 spline carrier in and use aftermarket axle shafts but a full set will set you back about a grand. To me that's a lot of money, and they aren't necessarily unbreakable.
The elusive leafer salisbury front. I know of exactly one vehicle in the USA with one. Dan Rao's truck has it and it is impressive. Whether you could ever find one or not, I wouldn't plan around that. It would be easier to have a Dana 60 front axle custom built.
There's one like that on the late Mike VanCuren's monstrosity ( which I had the experience to run around the Cove in at Conclave)

[JimCT]

Salisbury axles are not unbreakable! 1st week i shattered one. Get the upgraded axles and drive flanges from great basin rovers. not a problem since, and that is in our ambulance with a detroit locker in the rear







You're still evading the driving requirements question. It's too hard to say what's right if you are not forthcoming.
Do yourself a favor and drop the NV4500 notion. I hate to say it's a dumb idea, but there are far better options. I'd rather see you put an NP 4 speed in it than that 4500. First gear on the 4500 is almost useless to you. You'll probably find yourself starting in second gear on the road, and find few instances where you need it off-road.
Salisbury vs Rover diffs. Salisbury axle is stronger because the axle shafts are fatter and the ring gear more robust. Ratio changes are more problematic with them although they can take a regular DANA 60 ring and pinion. The ARB locking diff for them is good, but a Detroit locker in the rear is pretty much bulletproof and requires no external plumbing. If I am not mistaken TAW uses automatic lockers both front and rear and she runs what I would call a heavy truck on them without trouble.
Rover diff you can plunk a 24 spline carrier in and use aftermarket axle shafts but a full set will set you back about a grand. To me that's a lot of money, and they aren't necessarily unbreakable.
The elusive leafer salisbury front. I know of exactly one vehicle in the USA with one. Dan Rao's truck has it and it is impressive. Whether you could ever find one or not, I wouldn't plan around that. It would be easier to have a Dana 60 front axle custom built.
There's one like that on the late Mike VanCuren's monstrosity ( which I had the experience to run around the Cove in at Conclave)

[o2batsea]

Salisbury axles are not unbreakable! 1st week i shattered one. Get the upgraded axles and drive flanges from great basin rovers. not a problem since, and that is in our ambulance with a detroit locker in the rear
Um well, an ambo will break anything! And I never said that salisbury axles weren't breakable, just stronger.

[PeterK]

Another transmission you might want to consider is the 4500's little brother the NV3550

I built a 109 PU,.

- GM 4.3 V6
- NV3550
- Advance Adapters Tcase adapter
- Series Tcase with Ashcroft high ratio kit
- Salisbury with ARB at 4.70

2000 rpm at 60 mph.

As others have said, your driving needs aren't given but this is a very nice drivable, powerful and economical setup.

Peter Knowles

[nz rover]

Thank you all for the responses, they are very helpful. Let me outline some of my own input to help.

- Usage - It'll be used for trail / basic off-road driving mostly in the Texas Hill country area. (Hills are a relative term in Texas). I do not want to nor intend to rock crawl or do anything insane. I do want more power and an overdrive. Those are the bare requirements - I'm just not sure how to get there (reasonably). Camping, ski trips, and long stretches of road broken up by trails.

- I haven't built a Rover or 4x4, but have built a few hot rods so naturally my inclination is towards a SBC 350. The research I've done to date indicate that an aluminum headed 350 is comparable, if not less, weight than a 2.25L. I want something that I can easily fix on the road (if need be) and few engines rival the 350 in terms of parts availability in the U.S.

- Transmissions - I have just read good things about the NV4500, but understand the first gear is really steep - hence the question about gearing down to 3.54 to mitigate it. The NV3550 I'm not as well-versed on. Back to the books on that.

- 02batsea - that combo you mentioned does sound really cool. I haven't investigated the Rover 3.9 or R380. Is your combo still for sale?

- Overall, I'm in the fortunate position of not being committed to any one choice (5.7L vs 3.9L vs 4.3L) or (NV4500 NV3500 R380). I do figure that if I'm going to have the car torn down and I will be welding, I have a hard time jamming a V6 in it - and to date I'm concerned that the 4.3L is a bit underpowered for the NV4500. (I'll check on the 3550 tonight)

- Hopefully that sheds more light on the build. I would openly welcome any and all feedback. The axles / drivetrain I'm a bit less concerned about (in this thread). I need to figure out the Engine / Trans / T-Case so I can start getting the parts in order. In a nutshell, it sounds like the following are the combos I'm hearing:

Requirements:
* Overdrive
* More power
* Commonly available (minus the Advance Adapters)

Combos:
* SBC 350 - > NV4500 -> Series T-Case (ok, maybe just my idea)
* 3.9L Rover -> R380 -> LT230
* GM 4.3L V6 -> NV3550 -> Series T-Case
* Other proven combos I'm missing that are easily sourced in USA? (2.25L is not an option)

Thanks again everyone - all this information is incredibly helpful.

[PeterK]

Forgot to mention, the 4.3 - 3550 setup doesn't require and body or frame modifications other than motor mounts.
And in retrospect, I think even that could be avoided.

Peter

[nz rover]

Thanks Peter - Sorry I keep saying NV3500 and not 3550. It sounds like that might be a much more compact alternative, and the .78 overdrive is still decent.

[o2batsea]

OK that helps.
From what you describe, you can get away with a very much stock drivetrain with perhaps a mild suspension lift and a bit of performance improvements. You arent towing or loading the truck heavily so you don't need to throw down big dollars for aftermarket gear. Don't forget that a Land Rover Defender is, right out of the box, a very capable off road vehicle. You needn't do a lot of overthinking on this.
Here's the thing. Going with non stock drive train opens up all kinds of engineering issues. You will be reinventing pretty much every system rather than just ordering stock parts. I'm sure that as one who has built cars, you can appreciate how this can bog down the process.
If you are more comfortable with a SBC, you'll find the GM derived Rover V8 very familiar. In combination with the R380 (5 speed, so it does have an overdrive gear on it) and the LT230 (3.something to one low, that can be modified with up to 5:1 low) you have a very wide range of gearing. Depending on tire size you can further tweak that with your diff gearing.
There is an Edelbrock intake and 4 barrel available for the V8 if you are more comfortable with that kind of fueling over injection.
Also there are a couple of performance cams from Crower and Piper, as well as headers so it is possible to get another maybe 30-50 hp out of the lump. You gas mileage will plummet to around 12.
If you want higher mileage, you may want to consider a 200Tdi diesel. They give you almost as much oomph as the V8, but bring all the issues a diesel brings...noise, vibration, smell. However, off road, you set it at idle, put it in low low and just walk over just about anything.
Just as an aside, there is one SBC powered D90 that comes to mind. It was built by the late Mike VanCuren, it has the NV trans and LT230 Tcase. The seatbox and floor and bulkhead had to be seriously altered to the point where there isn't much foot space left. Not saying you would find a better solution, but fitting a non stock engine and trans can bring about some changes that may not be desired.
Anyway, you'll figure it out. Good luck and keep us in the loop.

[toga Rover]

Correct Jason. Sorry. Should have written "and a" instead of a slash.
Did not mean to mislead.

Dave


Just to be clear, that isn't a salisbury front though. Just a regular rover diff with the better 6 cylinder brakes. Decent deal though if you're looking for a salisbury rear.

[I Leak Oil]

Correct Jason. Sorry. Should have written "and a" instead of a slash.
Did not mean to mislead.

Dave

If I had some free cash I'd probably snap these up myself. Been thinking of building my own front Salisbury from a rear, then using the swivels off a stock front. My shop project has me handcuffed for now on spending on extras though. If you still have them in a few months I'll be talking to you then!

[CMorris]

I know of exactly one vehicle in the USA with one. Dan Rao's truck has it and it is impressive. Whether you could ever find one or not, I wouldn't plan around that.[/QUOTE]

Make that two..............I have one on my '63 IIA 109 pickup.......sourced for me by Rovers North.

[TeriAnn]

You guys still at this? It has been a while since I looked at this thread. But finally we have a usage note.


Thank you all for the responses, they are very helpful. Let me outline some of my own input to help.

- Usage - It'll be used for trail / basic off-road driving mostly in the Texas Hill country area. (Hills are a relative term in Texas). I do not want to nor intend to rock crawl or do anything insane. I do want more power and an overdrive. Those are the bare requirements - I'm just not sure how to get there (reasonably). Camping, ski trips, and long stretches of road broken up by trails.

- Transmissions - I have just read good things about the NV4500, but understand the first gear is really steep - hence the question about gearing down to 3.54 to mitigate it. The NV3550 I'm not as well-versed on. Back to the books on that.


A gearbox with a granny first should not be in a drive train that has a transfercase unless you are building a gonzo rock crawler. Which you are not. Best to stay away from any set of gears that include a granny low. You will never use the gear. Consider the granny first to be dead weight.

You should be thinking close range 4 or 5 speed top loader box.






Combos:
* SBC 350 - > NV4500 -> Series T-Case (ok, maybe just my idea)
* 3.9L Rover -> R380 -> LT230
* GM 4.3L V6 -> NV3550 -> Series T-Case
* Other proven combos I'm missing that are easily sourced in USA? (2.25L is not an option)


The Chevy 350 is a very good engine for this kind of transplant. With the aluminum heads it is about 50 lbs heavier than the 2.25L petrol. Use the rams head exhaust manifolds. It is all stock off the shelf parts to the transfercase adapter. This is probably the easiest V8 swap. If the electronics don't scare you there are some folks using the new GM small block V8 engines and getting both power and very good fuel mileage.

The Ford 302/5.0 and 351 are good engines and you can use off the shelf Ford parts on back to the transfercase adapter. A 302/5.0 with aluminum head is about 50 lbs lighter than the 2.25L petrol. The early Bronco folks make engine mounts & oil pan to help this engine work in a LR engine bay.

3.9L Rover & R380 This combo is not as robust as the options above and parts are a lot more expensive. If you get a any of the Rover/Buick V8 engines get a recent rebuild that has top hat cylinder liners. These engines are not known for a long lifetime nor for high fuel mileage.

GM 4.3L. I don't know this engine. But look for something that will be under stressed and put out a lot of torque below 3000 RPM. Most high HP engines put their power out at higher RPMs and rob the low end to feed the high end. If you look at Edelbrock performance specs you should notice that their performance charts do not go below 3000 RPM. That is because a lot of the performance parts perform worse than factory stock at the low end. When I was head hunting the only head I was able to find that worked at the low end was Air Flow Research.

Anyway ... most off road driving is done well below 3000 RPM and V8s tend to get their best fuel mileage loafing around 2500 ish RPMs.

I suggest a small block V8, Ford or Chevy, with either stock or AFR small valve heads, and a truck towing cam. EFI will give you better fuel mileage. Keep compression 9:1 or lower and you can run regular.

Gearbox - NP-435 close ratio (Ford or Chevy) or SM420 close ratio (Chevy engine). Both are very robust 4 speed top loaders from full size pickups & SUVs. Again a granny first is redundant when you have a transfercase and is basically dead weight.

I suggest a stock transfercase, C suffix and newer because they have the more robust intermediate gear shaft & bearings and a Santana clone overdrive from Heystee automotive. This overdrive has been proven to handle 500+ HP.

Diffs & axles - The strongest stock solution are ENV axle assemblies. I think these came on front and rear on SIIA One Ton and also on the forward controls. If memory serves they were manufactured by Eaton. Second strongest Is the Salisbury which is a old style Dana 60 manufactured under contract from Dana. These were stock on the SIII One Ton front & rear. The Salisbury was also stock on the SIII 109. The Salisbury is way stronger than the standard Rover axle but it never hurts to upgrade the Salisbury diff and axles. Your common Salisbury diff upgrades are either an ARB air locker or a Detroit locker (automatic locker). Strengthened axles are available from ROAM Off Road or GBR (formally Great Basin Rovers). GBR can also provide hardened drive flanges and greasable spring bushings.

You will want to convert to power steering to get the steering box out of the way. The current hot set up uses a Range Rover P-38 steering box, pitman arm and lower steering column.

Fifteen or twenty years ago a V8 swap into a Series truck required a lot of custom engineering and custom fabrication. These swaps are common enough with small block Ford & Chevy engines that you can pretty much follow established patterns and end up with a reliable conversion. Advance Adapters has made the conversion almost off the shelf. The hardest part these days is reworking the bulkhead for bellhousing clearance and moving things over to centre the engine in the bay. You want to have good sheet metal welding skills if you intend o do the conversion yourself.