Friends 109"? Good deal or not?

[sammyman]

I went and looked at a friends early 60's 109" which he is selling for around $9k. It has been sitting for about 5 years and needs brakes so I wasn't able to test drive it.

Goods from my brief inspection:

Never painted so nothing is hidden
Always been in the bay area, frame should be ok
Over $20k in receipts for work done to the engine and mechanically over the last 10 years
Engine sounded strong
Overdrive
Body is in overall good shape, some fender damage and one door ding, and something on the rear left corner

Bads from my brief inspection:

Brakes need work so I couldn't drive it
Needs paint just about everywhere
Surface rust on a lot of stuff
Will need door panels, some window gaskets etc
Will need some seats, but a lot are ok

What should I look for when I go back and take another look? Any thoughts on pricing as I am very new to these old rovers. Thanks!
88208824882388258826

[Les Parker]

This appears to be a good candidate for a full restoration. A good, solid base vehicle.

It has one of the rare front bumpers, with the strengthened crank portal.

One thing puzzles me, what will come of all the stuff that is currently stored in the vehicle ?

Look for any oil spots under the car also, check the engine/gearbox axle for oil escaping from it's respective container.

Definitely not a North Eastern vehicle !!!

[sammyman]

Since I am so new to these, can you give me an idea of value? Is $9k a fair deal for this? I went through the forums and found many that were being sold for $15-20k and look to be in very good to excellent shape.

I'll look for oil spots everywhere. I'm most confident in its mechanical side. Engine cranked over after sitting for over a year and purred. I was mostly worried about the cosmetic stuff. I've never had to paint both inside and outside of the car (usually have painted just the exterior). I can imagine that would cost some money just prepping it for painters..


This appears to be a good candidate for a full restoration. A good, solid base vehicle.

Definitely not a North Eastern vehicle !!!

[sammyman]

One more thing. What's up with the steps on the side of the vehicle? They are totally different (and hammered) than most of the rounded steps I see on most Series IIa's.

[LR Max]

That frame is not ok. Looking at the rear crossmember, that ain't surface rust.

Also around the drivers area bulkhead, that looks rough.

If these two items are in desperate need of repair/replace, price drops WAY down.

That said, if I'm wrong, $9k seems high. I'd do $6k on that truck. More if I could drive it away. The "non-driving" thing kills it some. Probably leaks worse than normal and probably needs a set of tires.

If it was in awesome original shape and a good driver, then $9k would be doable.

All that said, us series owners are all cheap.

[sammyman]

You're right. It does need new tires.

[HybridIIA]

One more thing. What's up with the steps on the side of the vehicle? They are totally different (and hammered) than most of the rounded steps I see on most Series IIa's.

The truck is a very early IIA, most likely late '61/early '62. The early IIA's had rectangular steps, front lenses secured with 2 screws and box shaped front apron. My '62 109 has all the same features.

[SalemRover]

Bring a heavy ball peen hammer when you go back. The rad support is most likely rubbish, the bottoms of all the doors (first and 2nd row) are probably rotted out and need to be repaired/replaced. Check the 2nd row footwell and the b pillar for rust. The b pillar is the steel channel that makes up the frame that the 2nd row doors are framed in. They usually rot out at the bottom of the angled part of the 2nd row door. The 2nd row footwell can also have serious galvanic corrosion around the first mount point due to debris being flung at the back from the rear tires. Take photo's of the oil spots under the truck and post them up (they are there). Use the ball peen hammer and strike all the chassis(frame) rails and boxed outriggers with a heavy blow every few inches, heavy dents or thuds are serious problems. Beat the rear crossmember in a similar fashion.

Sadly it sounds like your friend paid to have alot done to the engine and good 2.25 petrol engines dont increase the value as much. So the receipts are nice, but do not add directly to the value. There are lots of folks (myself included) that would say do not paint the truck! It has a nice patina and all the original panels are in decent shape. THAT does have value in the same way that ripped and worn designer jeans are expensive. The patina allows the dings to stay there and add to the "charm". Anyone can paint a truck to be shiny and look new, but to find nice patina on decent panels is rare.

As it stands it looks unmolested with good body panels with nice patina, cappings look good and the seats look to be in decent shape. With potential rot from doors, pillars, rad support and possibly frame seriously decrease the value. Having to do new seals to the driveline (most likely) and brakes really put this as a great restoration project. I would guess it is worth from the 4-6k range depending on how extensive the rust is.

Jason

[Donnie]

What is all the rust on the ground under the truck? Someone been pecking around with a welding hammer?
Bring me 6 grand & you can drive mine home..........Donnie

[JimCT]

Bring a heavy ball peen hammer when you go back. The rad support is most likely rubbish, the bottoms of all the doors (first and 2nd row) are probably rotted out and need to be repaired/replaced. Check the 2nd row footwell and the b pillar for rust. The b pillar is the steel channel that makes up the frame that the 2nd row doors are framed in. They usually rot out at the bottom of the angled part of the 2nd row door. The 2nd row footwell can also have serious galvanic corrosion around the first mount point due to debris being flung at the back from the rear tires. Take photo's of the oil spots under the truck and post them up (they are there). Use the ball peen hammer and strike all the chassis(frame) rails and boxed outriggers with a heavy blow every few inches, heavy dents or thuds are serious problems. Beat the rear crossmember in a similar fashion.

Sadly it sounds like your friend paid to have alot done to the engine and good 2.25 petrol engines dont increase the value as much. So the receipts are nice, but do not add directly to the value. There are lots of folks (myself included) that would say do not paint the truck! It has a nice patina and all the original panels are in decent shape. THAT does have value in the same way that ripped and worn designer jeans are expensive. The patina allows the dings to stay there and add to the "charm". Anyone can paint a truck to be shiny and look new, but to find nice patina on decent panels is rare.

As it stands it looks unmolested with good body panels with nice patina, cappings look good and the seats look to be in decent shape. With potential rot from doors, pillars, rad support and possibly frame seriously decrease the value. Having to do new seals to the driveline (most likely) and brakes really put this as a great restoration project. I would guess it is worth from the 4-6k range depending on how extensive the rust is.

Jason

If you did that to the frame of a truck i was selling i hate to say where your hammer would end up, you can determine the condition of a frame of a truck you do not own without denting the frame. Use some common sense please

[SalemRover]

If you did that to the frame of a truck i was selling i hate to say where your hammer would end up, you can determine the condition of a frame of a truck you do not own without denting the frame. Use some common sense please

Good point. Guess I did not word that well. That being said I would strike with a fair force, similar to driving a 8 penny finish nail, but less than a framing nail.

[JimCT]

Good point. Guess I did not word that well. That being said I would strike with a fair force, similar to driving a 8 penny finish nail, but less than a framing nail.

at that point you probably know you are not buying it already!

[stomper]

Out of curiosity, did you lift the rubber mat system up from the front floorboards and bulkhead area? While those are nice, they also hide a ton of rust.