Adapter Rear Cylinder Heater Hose Help Needed

[kenscs]

Hi there, I have been working on this problem off and on for over a year now with my 2.25 Petrol engine in a 1971 Series IIa ex-MOD LHD from Continent. The coolant "fitting for cylinder head" RNC663 that goes into the cylinder head does not fit my threads. I ordered this because the original connection there started to leak. Upon inspection, the connection was jury rig of a British valve from a Triumph used to control the flow of coolant to a Smith heater in the truck. The control valve was epoxied into what looks like a bolt head that was cut off and had a drill press hole drilled through it. Because the valve started to leak, I needed to attach the new valve I sourced back into this contraption. I tried to solder it, but it is not strong enough.

The RNC663 looks to be a 5/8" with course thread (can anyone confirm this?). The one that is in the head now is a TINY bit smaller with a finer thread. (Which makes me think it was not stripped and then rethreaded since the existing hole is smaller than the "standard" part) I have found posts that refer to it being M16x1 in some engines. BUT, I have not seen any for sale.

The questions I have before I try to find a shop to braze the part on the old bolt head are:

1.) If this is a "standard" fitting (what I think is M16x1), is there a place to source it? Our hosts only carry the one I ordered which I think is 5/8"NC or NF. I will confirm by buying a M16x1 bolt and making sure it fits what is there.

3.) Any foreseen problems with re-tapping to the larger thread in a cyclinder head to match what seems to be the factory standard 5/8" NC.

The photo on the far left has three types of heater attachments. The second from the left if the one I ordered and the one I usually see in photos on the back of the cylinder head. This is the one that does not fit as it has too course a thread. The contraption to the right of it is the valve that was epoxied into the little bolt head below it. This has a pretty fine thread.

The second photo is of the cylinder head where the piece screws into. The last one is just a photo of the original part that leaked.

I found this post which makes me think I am not the only one having the same issue. http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/forum/index.php?topic=59842.0

[luckyjoe]

It sounds like you may have a metric head, so sourcing the appropriately sized bolt should answer that question.

When installing heater in my '65 IIa exMoD, I removed the plug at the rear of the head and installed the hose barb in your photo. With the hose barb in place I skipped the LR valve all together and used a water valve for an '84 VW Rabbit (now Golf). They are really inexpensive and work fantastic - full on/off with smooth modulation of the coolant flow. I positioned mine inline between the head take-off point and the heater core, and actuate it with a choke cable.

[kenscs]

Got it! I think. Looks like part number ERC9453 is the Metric take off hose connector and is DISCONTINUED! I do think it is going to be M16x1, but will verify and find an appropriate substitute from plumbing supply or something. I wonder what the demand for this part out there is? I could dig around to have it manufactured for a 100 or so to help others with same issue. Sounds like it is for ex-MOD vehicles.

[luckyjoe]

May be discontinued but you can still find them... pm sent.

[Howsomever]

Odd duck..........
Hello Kenscs............I feel you pain..........Rovers.
I looked in my growing stash of parts. Not sure it is the same as what I have but this is what I know. My shutoff valve that threads into the head measures .650 or 16.5 mm across the threads. The threads are 1.25 mm or 18 threads per inch. I do know it uses a copper crush washer to seal. Appears to be an odd size and I would treat what you have like gold. Suspect you will end up welding something to what you have to make an adapter. I have not run across any US, Metric or Whitworth threaded thing to fit in the head. Don't give up but would like to know the outcome!

[kenscs]

So, after many hours of googling and phone calls, it seems like the Non-Metric head thread for the heater take-off pipe is a 3/8" British Standard Parallel Pipe ("BSPP"). That is why I couldn't match the Rover's North Part I ordered up with anything here in US in terms of Taps or Dies. BSP does not match the US standard of UNC or UNF. To complicate things, I guess the ex-MOD trucks had Metric Heater take off and are what I think (but still unconfirmed until I can find a M16x1.0 bolt to verify) M16mm with a 1.0 thread pitch. The quote from one Rover's parts company that had the metric take listed on their website but not in stock was "the metric ones are harder to find than a hen's tooth".

Here are the specs for BSP. As it turns out, originally the 3/8" referred to Inside Diameter of pipes. In this case, the spec measures 17.2 mm Outside Diamter, which is why is is a tad too big for the 16mm Metric head.

wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe)

I hate to say it, but a pretty cool learning experience so far in all the different potential thread variations globally. I also have a 1994 Toyota Land Cruiser and have learned much over the years about Japanese standard as well, called the Japanese Industrial Standard or "JIS", which is different I think from ISO-Metric specs.

I think I need to stick to restoring one countries car....:eek:

[kenscs]

Pure gold!! Finally sourced from UK for pretty penny.

9282

I will confirm once I can find a Tap or Die that this is actually M16 x 1.0, but it certainly meets the specs online and is finer thread than M16 x 1.5.

[siiirhd88]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#26015a234/=qjdqvs

m16 x1 tapered metric tap from McMaster-Carr. I didn't see a die. They also have BSPP taps and dies.

Bob

[kenscs]

Thanks. I think after this experience sourcing this part, I am going to scan it and make available at 3-D printer company for Open Source. Actually, an interesting idea would be to start making Open Source scans for rare Series vehicle parts and link to 3D printer companies executing in Brass, metal, etc. Hmmm. Now for the free time to do that...

[SafeAirOne]

...3D printer companies executing in Brass, metal, etc...

This part of the statement confuses me.

The part is dead-simple to produce on a manual lathe with hexagonal stock. Not sure what the above means though.

[mearstrae]

The new 3-D printing technologies that make actual parts in plastic or metal out of powders. So, with one of these (Costly) metal printing machines you could make a custom wrench or fitting out of metal, or most anything. Works kind of like a lazer printer. Make up a 3-D computer model and feed it into the printer and out comes whatever you want from a toy, to a tool, to a part; in plastic or metal (depending which printer you have).

'95 R.R.C. Lwb
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[kenscs]

This part of the statement confuses me.

The part is dead-simple to produce on a manual lathe with hexagonal stock. Not sure what the above means though.

I was not referring to this part specifically, more to more esoteric parts that might not be easily cast or manufactured. Although, the part store of the future may just be stored 3D images for complete cars and a 3D printer. ZERO inventory cost for virtually every part imaginable.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/articles/jay-lenos-3d-printer-replaces-rusty-old-parts-1/

From Jay Leno's Link above:

"People say, “Why not just give the part to your machinist to make?” Well, if the machinist makes it wrong, you still have to pay for it. The scanner allows you to make an exact copy in plastic, fit it and see that it’s correct. Even when you take plans to a machinist, it can be tricky. Say the part must be 3 mm thick here and 5 mm there. You get it back and then, “Oh no, it doesn’t fit; it’s too thick,” or “It’s too thin.” My setup lets you create the perfect part. And you could press the button again and again—and keep making the part—twice the size, half-size, whatever you need. If you have a part that’s worn away, or has lost a big chunk of metal, you can fill in that missing link on the computer. Then you make the part in plastic and have a machinist make a copy based on that example. Or you can do what we do—input that program into a Fadal CNC machine; it reads the dimensions and replicates an exact metal copy."

[kenscs]

To conclude this saga, after finally tracking down the Metric version of the heater take off hose nipple was 1/2" and the Smith heater I have uses 3/8" connector hose, so without now tracking down a step down or some kind of other jury rig way to have 1/2" heater hose connect to 3/8" Smith heater pipe input, I just reverting to finding a shop to repair the old jury rigged 16mmx1.0 to 3/8" BSP adapter. With a bit of luck (long story) someone recommended Natick Radiator, in Natick Mass. He was great and welded and soldered everything back together and even polished it up. The owner is great and took pride in his work even though it was a small job. Highly recommended.

9638

[S11A]

Is this the same part?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-LIGHTWEIGHT-SERIES-IIA-III-68-84-BRASS-HEATER-TAP-88G588/370842128294?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D22048%26meid%3D6095979299791615687%26pid%3D 100005%26prg%3D9537%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D1612 64609053&rt=nc



If so there are a couple on fleabag in the uck.

[kenscs]

That is the part that screws into the adapter I was trying to concoct.

The one at our hosts, RNC568, is 3/8" in BSPP to 3/8" BSPP, which is what the heater valve threads are. My head happens to be a "Metric" head which means the take-off thread is M16mmx1.0. I don't think there exists in the world a prefab M16x1.0 Male to 3/8" BSPP. If I was a good machinist and had a lathe, as pointed out, I could make this easily with Hex Stock.

The Rovers North version is this link.

http://www.roversnorth.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=594622

[S11A]

Ahh, thanks that clarifies my confusion.

[o2batsea]

I can't figure out what the reason for saving the old valve is. There's like ten gazillion other possible heater control valves out there that are easily adapted to your system. You'd just get a metric fitting that has a hose barb on it, then plumb the HCV in between the head and the heater core.