109 Frame Off Resto - Work Space Requirements & Hints For Success

[JimnNC]

Hoping there are some experts or experienced folks who can provide some advice as I gear up to start on prep for this project. Situation & facts are as follows:

I absolutely have to pull everything off the frame & the bulkhead as both are beyond salvage - IMO.

I parked it 15 years ago, shortly after acquiring it, knowing when I bought it that the frame was beyond suspect. Since then, putting 3 daughters through college, two weddings for them, a new wife for me & the sale of my old money pit house, the perpetually delayed Land Rover project is now near the top of the time & money demands list - so I am looking forward to getting started. I actually have a starting budget and if all goes according to plan for the next year - should be able to add to it periodically - but where & how to start are the questions I hope you all can assist me with at this phase.

As can be seen (I hope), the wagon is parked/resting/planted - along side my garage. Unfortunately my single care garage & adjoining small shop space, has no room to accommodate the vehicle, but I will bring pieces in to store, & work on as removed & necessary, but ALL the removal and new frame assemblage work will need to be under a separate cover. Because I live in N. Carolina other than summer heat and the short winters we typically have (this past winter notwithstanding ) this should not be too much of an inconvenience.



My plan is to start removal of parts, body, engine etc...right where it sits and to start assembling the new chassis either to the front or rear of where the current wagon sits. I plan to assemble another temporary cover similar to what I have over the rover under, to work under during the project.

Wonder if anyone has thoughts or opinions on this approach. Mainly concerned about lack of side space.

And last question (for now)...should I complete all or most of the disassembly before I start ordering new stuff? Any advantage or disadvantage to one approach or another? Bearing in mind that I'm not planning a show room resto, just plan to get a galvanized frame underneath and get all structural and mechanicals in order so it can be driven, so no need to be concerned about pristine facilities.

If I should be referring to some FAQ's on this - happy to be directed there.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Jim

[JimnNC]

Attempt to paste a better image:

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[mearstrae]

It should be do-able. I wouldn't pick up any new parts until I had the old saved ones; labeled, cleaned, and ready for repair. No sense in falling over new parts that are being stored. Start with the body panels and work your way down, there'll be less in your way as you work toward the dirty, heavy stuff in the frame. There may be stuff that doesn't look so bad, once it's cleaned up, and can be reused (and maybe somethings will look horrible and lead to unplanned repairs). The weather wasn't too bad down there this winter (wink-wink), my inlaws live over east in Stoval.

'95 R.R.C. Lwb (Gone...)
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[CKubinec]

Jim - Doing that much tear down and rebuild out in the open on a dirt floor and cramped for space is going to be difficult. Ya got more nerve than me. More power to ya. As for advice: tag and label everything, keep fasteners for areas separate in coffee cans etc and labeled, lots of digital pictures of how things come apart(might be obvious now but not in six months), interior perishable items first, then outer panels etc. Best of luck. Chuck

[JimnNC]

Appreciate the advice Chuck. In my case the situation is kind of in dictating my options, but if I waited for a situational improvement I would never get this party started :-)

Thinking now that you mention it - the labeling and storing of parts will require more thought on my part, so seems my first steps are to make room for those things in my shop and prepare space and a storage system for removed parts.

Appreciate the "start inside first" guidance.

Thanks for the advice.

Jim

[JimnNC]

Appreciate the input... I have a feeling the weather during this project will be the most certain variable.... if working on old houses and motorcycles in the past has given me anything to go by where this project is concerned :-).

Thanks,

Jim

[o2batsea]

Just how restored do you want it to be? Are you going to disassemble it because you are going to get rid of all the corrosion? If so prepare for some "worst case" scenarios. Also, how OK are you with reproduction parts? The availability of good 2A parts is poor, and repro parts are usually of worse quality than the originals.
For a taste of what you are up against, you can go look at my build thread over on the Defendersource here. This is three years in the works. Almost done. It is a resto-mod where I converted to coil sprung chassis, 200Tdi, R380/LT230, new Exmoor custom interior.

[timdbacon]

I agree with Chuck K - my biggest concern would be the dirt floor and inevitable loss of parts etc. I always had that problem working on my 1956 Ford 640 tractor in our barn, and have had the floor cemented in anticipation of frame off restore on my 1967 IIa - hopefully starting as soon as I and everything else in Central Pa thaws a bit!

[darbsclt]

Thinking now that you mention it - the labeling and storing of parts will require more thought on my part, so seems my first steps are to make room for those things in my shop and prepare space and a storage system for removed parts.

When I partially disassembled my 88 for painting, I grabbed a couple big boxes of ziploc freezer storage bags from Costco. Ziplocs + Black Sharpies + lidded/stackable Totes +lots of pictures on my phone helped tremendously.

timdbacon
I agree with Chuck K - my biggest concern would be the dirt floor and inevitable loss of parts etc.

... and FIRE ANTS!... those little buggers have a way of sneaking up on you. If at all possible, I'd prepare the floor/ground by pulling the 109 out, clean/smooth/cut back the area, lay some kind of subfloor (even if that's just a heavy plastic tarp) and then return the 109. You'll want a barrier between you and bitey things & something to catch the nuts/bolts/washers that you will inevitably drop.

[1971Series88]

If this is a first time resto for you PLEASE do not throw anything out...even if it looks broken, and I mean NOTHING. Keep every nut, bolt & washer and put them in baggies marking the baggies with a permanent marker from whence they came. Do it like this:
One bag marked RIGHT WING - then every nut, bolt, washer and riv nut goes in there. Then put that baggie in a box marked FASTENERS.

Start at the front. Wings off first, then breakfast - opening up the bulkhead and engine bay/engine. Then move your way to the rear.

I have done 3 of these in 2yrs...this system has worked well - and I don't have the room that others do. BUT, I would suggest you take heed of moving the truck and putting something down on that dirt floor...that would be a PIA to work out in the dirt. But is what it is. Make as much room as you can in the garage - build a loft if you have to, to get stuff out of the way. You need as much space as possible.

Remember to treat EVERYTHING on that vehicle as a priceless, unobtainable, unreplaceable object and you will do fine.

[stomper]

I have not done a frame off restoration, but the suggestions posted are logical and good advice. Thinking a little farther ahead, once you get the interior, wings and tub out of the way, I would order your new chassis and bulkhead. You probably should order new engine mounts, transmission mounts, bushings at the same time. You will be able to remove, clean, and then refit the parts from the old frame to the new one without storing and losing parts relatively easily.

An axle can come off the old chassis, in the morning, and cleaned during the day, and refitted to the new chassis that night. Of course if sand blasting and reconditioning is necessary, this could take a little longer.

[NC_Mule]

I have done 3 of these in 2yrs...

After 3, ball park how many hours does it take for the transfer? Estimate just doing a frame swap not painting and powder coating a bunch of stuff.

Thanks pb

[o2batsea]

Also, triple whatever you think it will cost, and you'll be about halfway to the actual expense.

[ignotus]

Hi,

Welcome to the club! I just finished a rebuild of a 1960 109. It took around 2.5 years, in a gravel driveway on a slant with no roof. I think the above suggestions are very good. I would add that probably the most difficult part of the job will be moving the engine oand transmission. I did use an engine hoist to do both but had to put plywood down to roll the hoist around. PITA! I didn't have any issues with dropped parts, have a magnet handy if you need one. I did use Ziploc's for all the small stuff. It is possible with a hoist to remove the bodywork as all one piece but I don't think you will be able to. Take lots of pictures---more than you think you need from every angle you can. Parts are available in the UK, goooooooooooogle is your friend. If you don't have one get a workshop manual and a parts catalogue. IIRC RN has a resto discount?
I did a blog too; poppageno@blogspot.com

HTH
gene

[rickv100]

Are there any plans to move. Silly question but parts inevitably get lost in moves.

Also do a component at a time so parts are not lost or intermixed.

Rick