Seriously, am I expecting too much?

[rbbailey]

OK, so if any of you are paying attention to my whining, you may remember that I've owned my Series for about 4 years now. I had owned it previous to that, since about the year 2000. But that's a different story. Since I bought it the second time, I've been working on rust, brakes, paint, engine stuff. And I've really had a devil of a time just keeping the thing on the road.


Brakes went out, so I decided now was the time to put new lines in and to switch it over to a boosted system. Done, but then the new cylinders I put in started letting air in, so most of it had to be redone. This results in more money spent than should have been, and more time in the garage than should have been spent.
I also replaced all the seals on the exterior of the engine, set the valves, pulled all ancillaries off and refurbished them.
I pulled the radiator and heater core, had those both refurbished.
Put it all back together.
Two weeks = engine needs a rebuild. Bearings basically exploded, main shaft is shot, and oil pressure is virtually gone.
Find a replacement engine for $600.
Install replacement over the winter (it has now been 2.5 years since step #1)
Runs for one month, same issue as first engine, bearings going out.
Back in the shop.
Get the truck back yesterday and the engine feels better, but I still get the knocking sound on hills under high torque.....
And while on the way home I notice that my refurbished radiator has sprung leaks -- 6 now. Before I had it refurbished it had two. The radiator has about 20 hours of run time on it.


Is this typical? This is only the list of actual running components that have gone wrong, things that make or break it as far as being able to drive it. Of course there is actually a never ending list of things to do, leaks to address, etc...

I guess I just need to know if anyone has ever been able to keep a mid-1960's Rover on the road for... what?... a month? That list represents about $1500 worth of going in circles on stuff that was "fixed" but didn't work. And I mean fixed by professionals, not me. All I do is install the stuff once it is fixed.

The truck is running well now, but I'm sure that knock is going to get worse, I feel like I'm sucking the life out of it by asking it to get me to work in the morning. And I can't drive for more than a week or two without pulling the radiator... again...

[cedryck]

After reading your post, I can sympathize. I purchased an original 1965 2a ex mod, and drove it for a year, in New England snow and summer, experiencing some of what you have. The car I purchased was original, and battered, bruised, and neglected, but I purchased it to restore, (ie, new engine, frame, electrics, and brake and clutch plumbing, the works).
During the year that I drove the ORIGINAL car, I had to replace wheel cylinders, a flywheel bush, brakes, master cylinder, numerous wires and the dynamo. I would not have lasted driving the car any more than one year in that time my goal was to get CT plates, and then take it apart to restore. Yes the older originals are heavy on the work, but your dilemma of main bearings being shot, puzzles me.
I had a radiator shop re-core and pressure test an original Landrover radiator, with good results. No leaks, and works fine. The original 10 inch drum brakes on series trucks take a bit of getting used to. Learn to set them up properly, and do frequent checks to make sure the snail cams are tightly set.
Buy the best parts your money can buy when it comes to brake components, some aftermarket stuff looks and operates kind of Cheesy,

[o2batsea]

In the defense of the truck, there aren't many 50 year old vehicles running around that don't do those same things.

[I Leak Oil]

In the defense of the truck, there aren't many 50 year old vehicles running around that don't do those same things.

I'm in Bill's camp with this one but would also add that it sounds like you need to find some different shops to help you out. You can't blame the truck for a shops poor workmanship.

[cedryck]

Good points, the reason why I drove a 50 year old truck was to get a registration, that's it. Then rebuilding a truck removes a lot of the 50 year old problems found on any vehicle, good points to digest,
also,
I agree one should find some Rover friendly, and familiar facilities that can help sort out the particulars of a Rover. Then, having said that,
I think the owner has a certain responsibility to know his/her way around the British Rover.
Cheers,

[rbbailey]

I get that, which is why I take it to Ship's Mechanical in Portland.

And I understand that it is 50 years old, so I expect things going bad. But I thought that if I had things refurbished or bought new, I'd be able to count on it for some amount of time -- more than a few hundred miles, at least.

[LaneRover]

I don't think you are expecting too much. If you were complaining about one drop of oil a week or that there should never EVER be anything to fix then yes you would be asking too much.

Sure hope that I didn't just jinx myself . . .

[Roverowner]

Sounds like your distributor is advanced too much if it's knocking going up hills. Try turning the distributor counter-clockwise a little and see if it goes away.

My 1973 109 is my main vehicle in the summer. I drive it almost every day. The brakes need improving, but for now they are ok. Last year the alternator went out on it, it was replaced with a GM unit. Last week I blew a head gasket and spent Saturday replacing it. If I drive it in the rain I get wet, and sometimes when I slam the drivers door the window glass pops out. All this and I consider my Land Rover to be very reliable. If a 5 year old Toyota gave me as much grief I would never stop complaining about what a piece of junk it is. It's all about perspective. It sounds like you've had rotten luck, but when you get everything all ironed out you'll have a car you can drive daily and truly enjoy.

[rbbailey]

Ah, but note that my question is: How many times do I have to keep ironing out the same thing!?....

A guy I know on just posted a photo of his Series on Facebook... out in the desert, with 5 other Series trucks. A dream I just can't imagine ever coming true. No way I would drive this thing more than 15 or 20 miles from home right now. And 55 is pretty much impossible, so long trips are out of the question.

[o2batsea]

I am kinda reading between the lines here but it seems to me that your repair solutions involve what I will call a "cheap fix". You had a radiator "refurbished" and not recored or even replaced with new. Your blown engine was replaced with another unknown quantity, that subsequently failed.
While there are plenty of shadetree mechanics around that can coax years out of a clapped out part, it seems that that kind of luck is not on your side.
These things are expensive to keep and maintain. Always have been. Back in the day they cost twice what a Jeep did ( jeez, they still do! )
If you want to be sure that you have a reliable lump, you'll have to either buy a Turner engine from our hosts or have it rebuilt locally. That way you have some warranty if there's a problem. Ditto the radiator, the transmission brakes, etc.

[rbbailey]

You do have a point.

I'm not exactly trying to do it cheap, as much as affordable. However, the radiator was recored, welded, and given a clean bill of health by a well known radiator shop in Portland. The brake parts were all new, all original. I bought RN in house brand the second time around, they work! Go figure...

As far as the engine is concerned, yes, it was a bit of a gamble, but it is running. It seems to run well, and better since the recent work. But I just can't get fast enough to be legal on highways. And it does have that "feel"... as if it's just begging me not to drive it so it won't blow up.

Anyway, I just need to vent some times. I just need the issues to slow down in frequency for just a few months.

[o2batsea]

I'd be on the phone to that radiator shop letting them know I was bringing it back for them to fix right.
As for highway speed, you might want to try an Italian overdrive...taller tires and or diffs out of an 87-93 D1 or RRC. That will give you more top speed at the cost of acceleration, which is as we know, quite un-peppy to begin with. And when you get to a hill you will bog down as if you hit a wall. Trade offs y'know.
Also be sure all your timing is spot on as was mentioned.

[SafeAirOne]

What sort of highway speeds are we talking about? 55 should be very do-able with a properly tuned engine.

As everyone else mentioned, ignition timing is critical to getting the most power out of the engine AND to prevent engine damage. No need to look for engine #3 because improper ignition timing damaged #2.

Is your temp gauge functioning properly? Does it read hot? Is the radiator cap correct and functioning properly? Incorrect ignition timing could conceivably overheat the engine and if that steam has nowhere to go, it makes its own vents.

[rbbailey]

So the timing was done by the shop. I initially got it running, but it was obviously off, especially at idle. Now it starts and idles exactly as it should, better than it ever has in 10 years. Is it possible to mark the dizzy and go back to that exact spot if I do some slight tuning as an experiment?

Also, could the knocking -- not ticking -- I hear be valves or anything under the cover when at high torque? I could spend some time adjusting the valves. I've done that on the BMW with success, I suppose it isn't much different with the 2.25.

Hills are a dog. I still feel the torque from the engine when I give it gas, but it doesn't actually speed up any. 55 can be done, but it feels like it's going to blow up. 45 is comfortable. I run 7.5x16 tires. Acceleration is a dog.

[SafeAirOne]

The way you describe it, I'd suspect that detonation or pre-ignition is the source of your knocking under load, so lean mixture and/or incorrect ignition timing/faulty advance mechanisms would be the focus of my initial efforts to solve the problem.

[jac04]

Now it starts and idles exactly as it should, better than it ever has in 10 years.

I have timed all my rovers by ear, and I can tell you that the timing that produces the best idle quality is not the best setting for driveability. And as Mark suggested, you can have a faulty advance mechanism that will still result in great idle characteristics.

[LaneRover]

When my 65 109 SW knocked under load the mechanical advance in the distributor was seized up. Once I got it loosened up it was fine.

[rbbailey]

I'm listening to what people are saying here, and I went and asked the guy who did the timing about it as well. (By the way, when we pulled the bearings out last week they were bad, so now that there are new bearings in, and I'm still getting the noise...)

He also confirms what you all are saying, so I'm going to tweak it a bit this weekend. He also seems to think setting the timing is often a mix of doing it by the numbers, then feeling it out from there. I figure if I can turn the distributor just a tiny amount at a time, after marking my starting point, I should be able to go back if need be.

Once I retard the timing a bit, I assume my idle will be messed up as a result. So my logic is to turn till I can tell the idle is barely holding on, then bump it up just a bit. Tighten there. Test drive. Then... can I adjust my carb to compensate for a clunkier idle after that?

Which brings me to another question -- should I be using the stock air filter with the Rochester carb?

[bobzinak]

Does your rover have the original distributor? if so there is a small thumb wheel on it opposit the vaccuum advance unit. on the top of it there are hash marks, several small ones on either side of a wide one thats in the middle. adjust the wheel until thew wide mark alines with the distributor body. then set timing by moving the distributor. you can advance/retard the timing slighly by turning the thumb wheel. also check if there is any side to side play in the points rotor cam. and that it has some lube on it where it rubs on the points block. beneath the distributor there is a cam drive adaptor that offsets the distributor drive off to one side. it adapts the straight cut from the cam drive gear to an offset cut that matches the bottom of the distributor it has two small square metal square "flags" that fit into the cam drive gear. I had a hard time diagnosing that problem when my rover pinged like crazy. one of the "flags" had broken off and was plying havock with the timing. also do a web search on how to use a vaccuum gauge to set timing on you rover. the web sir MGAGURU has a wealth of information on diagnosing problems with english cars, many of the comonents used on rovers are also used on many british cars. the web site has a complete listing of every vehicle that used a lucas distributor along with advance curve, vacuum unit specs,and much more. It is critical that you rover has the proper vaccuum unit, I believe from memory that the 2.5 rover used a 4-18-12 unit, this number shoul be stamped on the vacuum unit. my owners manual says to advance timing until the engine pings on a hard pull and then back off a bit. good luck on your rover, owing a rover is more than a mode of trasportaion, it is also a hobby, I've been driving the same one for 40 years and there is always something to fiddle with. I thinks all old rover owners tend to question their sanity after owing a rover that seems bi-polar. as much as I've done to my rover, it is to the point when something is ammiss, I can pretty much know what it is because it's probably happened before...one thing about owing a rover, it's taught me how to fix it, it may seem like a stuggle,but eventually(keep telling yoursef that) it will all come together..welcome to the land roverolics club..there are many of us who have gone througth the same thing..carry on! rove on! folks on this site will be there to help where we can..bobzinak

[rbbailey]

So I tweaked the dizzy a bit to retard the timing. I just barely turned it, just enough to hear a difference in the idle.

It really seems to have done the job on the knocking. So thanks for the heads up.

However...

After about 40 miles of driving, I've noticed that it doesn't start on the first time now. This is the fourth or fifth drive since adjustment.

Now I hear a knock while at idle, a metallic echoing sound.

Then while driving up the hill to our house (800 feet in half a mile) it started back firing and almost stalling. It idled ok when I shut it off.

Tried to start it today, it would not start without effort, then coughed grey smoke and idled "differently" than usual while warming up. Then a rhythmic vibration, and it dies when I start to pull it out of the garage. Now it won't even pretend to start.

[mrmurray]

After replacing nearly every mechanical component on my 67 iia, I can honestly say it's no surprise the Brits nearly lost the war...