About to Buy a SII. Quick Questions

[sammyman]

I'm getting close to purchase a limestone LHD Series II land rover 88". It is a southern california truck for most of its life. Only had two owners. Unrestored. Mechanically solid and running strong on 2.25 gas engine. Full service history back into the early 80's. Price is around $6k. Comes with canvas soft top and hard top (not safari). Only surface rust in a couple of isolated spots. Frame and bulkhead solid.

Cons include rear quarter panel damage on both sides, small dings around, rear crossmember bumped in on one side, interior is rough, needing a minimum of new seats throughout. Tires needed. No overdrive.

What is a fair price for a rover in this condition? Prices here and on the internet are all over the board!

I really dig the safari top. How much would it cost to find one used?

A lot of what I have read says the Series IIa is the most classic rover, but that the II is very similar. Should I hold out for a IIa? Any benefits in finding a later IIa (really like the lights on the breakfast)?

I also have read that the 67 NADA 109 is collectible. While I like the soft top flexibility, I'd consider the 109 just for collectibility, but how much do they go for in a similar condition as the 88" I've found?

Thanks!

[SafeAirOne]

I think you're asking a question that's impossible to answer using the internet only, especially without pictures. Have you had a look at the truck in person? What's it worth to you?

I figure that unrestored 88s in the condition you describe would be in the $3500 to $8000 range.

Pretty wide zone, eh?

1967 NADA 109 is a collectible, eh? Well, I don't know that it's any more "collectible" than any other 109 (or 88 for that matter).

88 Safari tops are around. Roofs in general aren't too expensive--That's because nobody can get rid of roofs because nobody wants to ship roofs. They practically give them away because it's pretty much a local-pickup thing. It's just a matter of finding one with a sun sheet locally.

[darbsclt]

^^^ Ditto ^^^

Regarding the differences between a Series 2 & a Series 2A... take a look at the attachment & find where the registration number of your vehicle falls. That will help you see where it is in the developmental timeline.

Regarding the roof... agreed, safari roofs are groovy. This summer, however, I hung my standard hardtop in the garage & fitted canvas (a bikini cab) for the first time... I'm not sure I'll refit the hardtop anytime soon. I love the canvas that much! Much has to do with personal preference & geography. In my mind nothing can beat the classic look of a canvas-topped rover with the door tops off & sides rolled up.

As for collectability, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I've never heard of a premium for 109's vs 88's... each have their advantages/disadvantages in size & drivability on/off road. In my opinion any steel-dash "grill-eyed" vehicles (2 & 2a's) are preferred over 3's... transitional 2a's or "bugeyes" are sought by some for their relative rarity.

Hope this helps & good luck!

[o2batsea]

You don't find these, they find you. That is, like any relationship, when the right one comes along you know it. Does it feel right? If it does buy it. However, buy it with the knowledge that you will constantly dumping time and money into it; sometimes in overwhelming quantities. They all need something major sooner or later.

[sammyman]

Thanks for the replies so far. Here are some pics.

Re: my comment about the 1967 NADA. I have seen some restored 1967 NADA rovers sell for ridiculous amounts. In general, the less supply the more demand. I know that was a USA only engine and there are only 800 of them, so if one will become very expensive, it seems it would be that one.

So it doesn't really matter if it is a late IIa or a II in terms of desirability? Not interested in bugeyes. I see little improvements along the way every year for series. Normally, the last year they make cars they iron out all the kinks.

Oh, and will 7.5 x 16's work with the Series? I happen to have some Michelin XZL's sitting on my porch but suspect they may be too big.

Maybe pics will help:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m616/landrovercom/IMG_0013_zps4fe82a37.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/landrovercom/media/IMG_0013_zps4fe82a37.jpg.html)

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m616/landrovercom/IMG_0022_zps5022d10a.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/landrovercom/media/IMG_0022_zps5022d10a.jpg.html)

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m616/landrovercom/IMG_0021_zps6b1d3d08.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/landrovercom/media/IMG_0021_zps6b1d3d08.jpg.html)

Does this one "feel right"? I'd say yes. I don't want to get into bulkhead or frame repairs. I am better fixing cosmetic things than engines. Fairly handy, but rebuilding engines isn't something I have time to do. I also don't have a lot of space so taking it apart isn't an option.

My plan would be to straighten out the body, galvanize the bits and pieces, take care of any surface rust, possibly paint if needed (torn on the to paint or not to paint), and install new seats throughout with seat belts. Maybe a new top in a couple years.

[darbsclt]

I can't comment on the relative "desirability" of the 6cyl '67 109's... but I will caution you about purchasing any series vehicle as an investment. They can be a high-maintenance and costly mistress. If I'm able to breakeven, should the time come to part with mine, I'd be delighted.

As for 7.5 x 16's on an S2a 88... I can honestly say that I love mine. In my opinion they look perfect on any series. IIRC they were standard on the NADA 109's... and optional equipment on the 88's. You'll need to look at the speedo to see what circumference tire it is calibrated for.

Cheers!

[Revtor]

Dont think any old Rovers are going to climb into "very expensive" territory. Theyre all cool theyre all collectible, to everyone else they're just old jeeps anyway. Buy the one that speaks to you! Corny, but ...... thats the way to go. Socal vehicle sounds like a great place to start.

Dont jump at the first one that comes bouncing into view either, they're around and come up for sale pretty regularly. 3-8k for a runner that may or may not be ready to be a driver. Figure another grand to get it up to snuff.

have fun!

~Steve

[sammyman]

Another thing has been bugging me. The owner said you can lock the front hubs manually to give power to front and rear tires. Is this right? Don't Land Rovers Series vehicles have full time 4 wheel drive?

[o2batsea]

No, they have SELECTABLE four wheel drive, at least the Series ones. That means that you can place the transmission in all 4 from the driver's seat. Now, some luddites insist on installing unlocking hubs for reasons beyond my comprehension. Normally the front axle is "locked" to the hubs so that all the drive components are spinning when the vehicle is in motion. This is part of the design and is the lubrication plan by the manufacturer.
The development of the center locking differential in the transfer case allowed for all-the-time four wheel drive in later models.

[lumpydog]

Sammyman:

Locking hubs are a normal and common feature of the Series truck. You'll find that many examples have these installed if you look around. In my experience, well over half of the Series trucks I've come across have them.

This normal, don't let it give you pause here.

[luckyjoe]

Your XZL's will be the perfect tire - especially since you already have the tires and will no longer have to try and sell them! Can't tell from the photos but that 88 could have 15" wheels. Still a worthwhile investment even if you have to buy 16" wheels...

[yorker]

At a minimum take it for an extensive test drive, don't buy it based on an emotional response to looks alone.

[o2batsea]

The NADA six cylinder is highly regarded as one of the worst engines ever dumped on the driving public.

[darbsclt]

Coincidentally, I just came across an interesting (but seemingly abandoned) blog at oldrover.com (http://www.oldrover.com/start.htm)... towards the end of his history section, "Da" offers a brief description of his '67 109 6-cylinder.

The sentence opening the paragraph is "The new 1967 Series IIA 109 was blue and bloody awful."
Read about it HERE (http://www.oldrover.com/history/history.htm)...

[cedryck]

Avoid the urge to buy someone's "love" and "emotion" as they are probably asking too much. The advice that another 1k to get it passable, and running, is accurate. Be logical when shopping for older truck, bring a compression tester, to get an Idea of where the engine is, check all the fluids, to see what the PO did or did not do, pull a tire off, and check the brakes, crawl under and twist the drive shafts to check for play, be logical, and don't pounce on something because it looks cool, they do, but you want something that has mechanical potential, just ,my 2 cents, cheers, good luck,

[chuckstp]

As I have read about locking hubs, they are supposed improve performance in 2 wheel drive. Also, you must NEVER engage 4 wheel drive unless they are locked otherwise serious damage can occur to your drive train. This of course is strictly theoretical on my part because I have only been in mine when it was moving once, and it was being towed at the time.

[SafeAirOne]

As I have read about locking hubs, they are supposed improve performance in 2 wheel drive.

This is true--You go from 12.7 MPG with locked hubs to 12.692 MPG with them unlocked and your 0-to-not-quite-60 time drops from 3 minutes 20 seconds locked to 3 minutes 18 seconds unlocked.

;)

[o2batsea]

Those are some wicked fast numbers you are posting.

[flighht2k5]

As I have read about locking hubs, they are supposed improve performance in 2 wheel drive. Also, you must NEVER engage 4 wheel drive unless they are locked otherwise serious damage can occur to your drive train. This of course is strictly theoretical on my part because I have only been in mine when it was moving once, and it was being towed at the time.

It doesn't hurt anything to drive in low with hubs unlocked.


"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

[lumpydog]

Coincidentally, I just came across an interesting (but seemingly abandoned) blog at oldrover.com (http://www.oldrover.com/start.htm)... towards the end of his history section, "Da" offers a brief description of his '67 109 6-cylinder.

The sentence opening the paragraph is "The new 1967 Series IIA 109 was blue and bloody awful."
Read about it HERE (http://www.oldrover.com/history/history.htm)...

This is an amazing site. Kind of like an archeological dig. Looks like it hasn't been updated in over 10 years. The story of the "vampire" is fantastic (under "sold rovers") - if there is one of these in the states, I wonder were it is now!?

Great find Darbsclt. Thanks for sharing!