Advice needed,Tranny/transfer swap [Archive]

1973series3

03-10-2015, 05:27 PM

Hello all,

I bought a complete transmission assembly and a clutch kit from our host recently and plan on swapping it in a couple weeks.

My questions and concerns are stuff like, is it best to remove from inside or try to r&r from the underside?

Since I will be swapping the clutch assy. is there anything I should know while installing new parts?

My speedo does not work, anything I need to look at while I am at this phase of my rover upgrade work?

I know nothing to look at as far as the Fairey overdrive unit, but would like to check it out for any future problems while I have everything apart. Any advice?

And anything else I don't know that you guys would like to tell me to make this as painless as possible?

This is my first Rover so it has been an interesting journey owning and working on this truck.

There is probably more I could add but I am hoping you guys can shed some light on this job I have planned soon.

TIA:)

o2batsea

03-10-2015, 05:41 PM

It is ALWAYS easier if you remove the seat box and floors. Speedo is prolly a broken inner cable. Gaugeguys dot com can make you a new one.
As to the Fairey overdrive, it is a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later it will blow. Use it until you can't. Keep your transmission end plate handy!

SafeAirOne

03-10-2015, 05:45 PM

I prefer to take out the floors, transmission "tunnel" and seatbox and work from above, using an engine hoist to pull the tranny/transfer case.

The SIII clutch is pretty straightforward and dead-simple compared to the pre-series 3 contraption.

You're going to have to remove the speedometer cable from the transfer case anyway. Now's the time replace your broken cable.

Tips? Yes. When you reattach the transmission to the engine, remove a couple of the studs on the transmission adapter (on the back of the engine--the studs that hold the bellhousing to the engine) and replace them with a couple of 3 inch bolts with the heads cut off. Do this at say the 10:00 and 2:00 position and maybe a couple down below. This way, you can correctly align the transmission with the engine before the splines on the input shaft engage the clutch disk, allowing you to maintain alignment while you mate the two together.

jac04

03-11-2015, 12:03 PM

I would also suggest filling the transmission assembly with oil and checking for leaks prior to installation (you probably want to drain it for handling afterward so no oil comes out of the input area). Also do an inspection of the selector shaft seals & indent springs/seals. Check for proper movement of the selector shafts. I was VERY unimpressed with the quality of the rebuilt transmission ass'y that I received from RN. It leaked like a sieve and I couldn't shift it.

cedryck

03-12-2015, 11:05 AM

A good reliable, sturdy, engine crane is handy, I agree with everyone else, remove seat box, and do from top.
Old tow strops come in handy to wrap the tranny up instead of chains, just in my opinion,
take your time, use alignment tool to position clutch disk properly,
have some beer on hand, it always helps.

slowmo

03-12-2015, 11:29 AM

I am in the middle of the same project, except I did the rebuild myself.

You really have no choice other than to pull it from the passenger side after removing the seat box. With a rental engine hoist it is an easy project and can be done alone except for removing the seat box from the truck once unfastened. It isn't heavy and my little wife helped me for this part.

I have a PTO Koenig winch and I had to remove that in advance to be able to move the tranny back to clear the clutch. I also had to unfasten the exhaust pipe. Both no problem. I used a tow sling and didn't have it balanced very well so once I got it disengaged from the clutch it tipped down at the nose. No really problem since I had removed the shifter. Had I not drained the tranny I would have had more of a mess, however. Be sure to do that!

I haven't installed the rebuild yet (see my thread which is presently bouncing around) but getting the sling adjusted properly will be easy from the garage floor. As others have said - buy the cheap alignment tool to get the clutch centered properly in the pressure plate. Like I said, I haven't done it yet on this truck, but have on several other small sports cars. I can see this is a piece of cake compared to those.

I can report that I have only one minor knuckle scrape, have gone through two boxes of nitrile gloves and two packages of rags and more than a "few" beers.

Good luck!!

1973series3

03-12-2015, 07:31 PM

Thanks to each of you guys for your input. It saddens me that your rebuild from RN was not worth what it cost. Sure isn't what I would call a bargain price. I would expect more from Ashcroft to be honest. I guess I will have to cross my fingers at this point.

I will have a cherry picker handy then about 300 different tools a block of wood to support the engine, and again, I appreciate the help. Being a new guy who never posts on here and all,you guys are very open and helpful.

As far as my tranny leaking(possibly really bad) what recourse do I have. I will be fairly pissed if after 3 grand it need seals or gaskets.

Any other nuggets?

Thanks

ignotus

03-13-2015, 12:45 AM

I've pulled several trannies by using 1/2" rope wrapped twice around the roof and lifting the tranny with a 1 ton come a long then sliding the whole thing along the rope to the door and lowering it down outside the vehicle. I have used a wooden dowel(3/4"?) for an alignment tool. When re installing you can slide the rope forward to "pull" the tranny up to the flywheel. Unless you have a removeable gearbox support, gotta go thru the top.

HTH

wgnwheel

03-13-2015, 07:52 AM

I pulled mine out in sections through the top and put it back together the same way - very manageable by yourself. Make sure you support the Bellhousing by the lip with a 1" wood shim when pulling it apart -

Cue Pandora...

jac04

03-13-2015, 08:51 AM

As far as my tranny leaking(possibly really bad) what recourse do I have. I will be fairly pissed if after 3 grand it need seals or gaskets.
That's why I suggested you check it before installation. With mine, RN said "no problem, just send it back and we'll fix it". Excellent customer service, but I had already buttoned-up everything and I wasn't about to pull it all apart. If I had known before installation, I sure would have taken them up on their offer. Instead, I had them send me a gasket kit, seals & Hylomar. I fixed the worst leaks (selector shaft seals and x-fer case cover), and lived with the other small leaks.

Here's what I found after pulling 1 of the detent spring retainers:
10685

Les Parker

03-13-2015, 12:30 PM

RN has sold many transmissions since this pic was taken. To date, none have had warranty issues. These are, after all, none current production vehicles and even with the best intentions, there will be some seepage from gaskets. The above was certainly an exception and RN endeavoured to correct in a timely manner.
2p

jac04

03-13-2015, 01:28 PM

... even with the best intentions, there will be some seepage from gaskets. The above was certainly an exception ...

So, there is your answer. My transmission leaked, but it was an exception ... although you should expect your $3k rebuilt assembly to leak as well. :confused:

ThePhotographer

03-13-2015, 02:05 PM

Don't worry, your Jeep will not leak for several years to come!

slowmo

03-13-2015, 04:25 PM

You have it all wrong. My TR3 has been marking his territory for years. In fact, I am not even charging anyone for water proofing their parking spots. They should be happy I am giving them my oil, purchased I might add with MY money.

The Rover gives me an entirely new level of gifting. Not only does it mark its territory, it marks the path it took to get there! Those who choose to help society by waterproofing well, everything, should in fact be given tax breaks. Though my Series Rover is named Homer, I have been considering naming it Valdez or Hazelwood. Being the cynic that I am, I note I have not received one letter of thanks from the local authorities. No plaques, no "Homer Days." No mention in the newspaper...well...postive mentions I should say.

Hoping that any part of any Series Rover will not leak is akin to being a communist. Do you not feel the need to help society? As a Series Rover owner it is not just your right to water proof the streets. It is your DUTY.

Now get back on the road and contact your Congressman. We have to get the news out.

1973series3

03-14-2015, 07:02 AM

Mine marks it territory as well. ;)

As far as trans assy concerns...I have had nothing but good luck with RN so far and Mr. Brennan has been above and beyond helpful in my moments of need. Great guy.

Thanks for the input guys.

1973series3

03-14-2015, 07:05 AM

Don't worry, your Jeep will not leak for several years to come!

Not cool,,,,

jac04

03-14-2015, 07:46 AM

Don't worry, your Jeep will not leak for several years to come!

Not cool,,,,

Hehehe. Yeah Zack, wondering what my Rubicon X has to do with any of this. You need to stay focused here.

1973series3

03-15-2015, 06:35 PM

My buddy has a jeep that leaks, not nearly as effective for undercoating as my rover,but a pretty good attempt. ;)

Now, as far as this Fairey O/D on my rover turning into loose parts in the future.

IF I was to use it rarely, and lets say it was disengaged would it still come apart and or would it mess up my new tranny?

OR would I just be better off leaving it on my old tranny and installing the new one without it since it has that plate already on?

Basically here is what I am asking, I rarely ever use the O/D anyways and have no problem not installing it on the new one. Especially if it can or will come apart and damage the new unit.

Any opinions?

SafeAirOne

03-15-2015, 09:44 PM

I don't see why a Fairey overdrive would "come apart" and destroy your transmission, but then again, I don't have an overdrive.

FWIW, in 11 years of hanging around the RN and G&R boards, I've never heard of an OD "coming apart" and destroying a transmission or transfer case. Perhaps others can shed come light on their Fairey OD experience over the decades they've been in service.

What is it that makes you think your OD will come apart and destroy your newly rebuild transmission+TC?

Perhaps you should send your OD to me, just to make sure nothing nefarious occurs. ;)

1973series3

03-16-2015, 02:29 AM

The gears mesh somewhere or the OD would not do anything to advance the gearing. As was pointed out before, they do come apart, I'm wondering if bits of metal will end up in the rebuilt tranny and damage it. I never mentioned the transfer case, but IF it can happen I would love to know before I get it back together. I could easily live without the Fairey.

It would be great if we could just rebuild them instead of run them till they break.

Kinda sad really,

o2batsea

03-16-2015, 05:02 AM

1973series3

03-16-2015, 01:39 PM

Faireys don't "blow" they just start screaming. It means the bearings are going. Then you have to take it apart to replace parts. While it's apart you'll want to put the end plate back on the transfer case so that you can still drive the truck. No big thing really, just that the things are fairly danty cmpared with the rest o the vehicl.

Would you have or know where I can get more technical data on the Fairey? I would be happy to install the bearings and check out tolerances while I have it apart. Granted some parts are more difficult to get, IF I had access to detailed info on this unit it would be very helpful.

This is my first semi-major upgrade to my Rover so I am flying blind somewhat. I would really like to do it right the first time :)

SafeAirOne

03-16-2015, 01:57 PM

Presumably George RDS Parts (http://www.rdsparts.com/) has all the components in the Fairey OD since he is currently producing the ODs again.

1973series3

03-17-2015, 07:22 AM

Presumably George RDS Parts (http://www.rdsparts.com/) has all the components in the Fairey OD since he is currently producing the ODs again.

Thank you sir, that is good to know.:thumb-up:

1973series3

03-27-2015, 07:57 AM

I would like to thank you guys for your input. It helped make this job better.

2 days later, tranny assy swap is complete. It shifts very nice now.

Installed new speedo cable........IT WORKS!!!!!

I did not install the Fairey OD on the RN rebuild. Easy to install after I get it rebuilt, so for now I can drive my girl around.

o2batsea

03-27-2015, 01:05 PM

Not much help in rebuilding, but the parts manual is here:
http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Fairey_Overdrive.pdf

1973series3

03-28-2015, 08:55 AM

Not much help in rebuilding, but the parts manual is here:
http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Fairey_Overdrive.pdf

Thanks for the file. I called George about a rebuild......Probably do other things to the old girl before I worry about the OD.

Not the highest on my priority list. No matter how I decide to get it rebuilt it will be expensive for what I will gain from having it in my truck.

1973series3

04-01-2015, 11:17 AM

BTW, I have a few tidbits to add before I leave for awhile.

I have put 100 miles on this thing, in 4th gear............ she is slow now, since the RN tranny assy swap and thought I would post some observations.

1. All linkage was perfectly adjusted and it works like a new one.

2. No oil leaks anywhere. Only 2 slight seeps but not enough to drip.

3. Other than the price and how little the core is worth, considering return shipping, I am more than pleased with the quality of this unit.

Now I have my old tranny assy that needs a 1-2 synchro but works fine otherwise. I'm thinking take it apart later and fix what I know needs replaced and sit in on the floor to age like a fine wine.

Or is it even worth it? I will never wear the new one out in my life time so is it even worth the time and effort to mess with?

o2batsea

04-02-2015, 09:15 AM

Or is it even worth it? I will never wear the new one out in my life time so is it even worth the time and effort to mess with?

Spend whatever time and money you would on that in pursuit of a clean 1990s vintage Range Rover Classic.

1973series3

07-04-2015, 10:11 AM

I am about ready to send my Fairey OD to George for a rebuild. But It appears he is closed. That is all his website says anyways.

I have 2 questions for you guys.

I bought the currently installed tranny assy from RN and it obviously did not have a Fairey installed. My removed tranny assy still has that Fairey OD unit hanging on it at this time.

Here is my first question, IF manage to get this OD rebuilt, what is required to install it on the RN rebuild in my Rover now? Isn't the drive gear in the way now? Would I have to remove anything internally from the RN tranny to be able to install a rebuilt OD?

Hopefully I explained that good enough.

And what is the deal with rovers down south? Are they out of business or just shut down temporarily?

stomper

07-04-2015, 06:57 PM

RDS has been sold to Safari Heritage Parts. I don't know if they also bought the rights to build the Fairey over drives, but a quick email should answer your questions. George is now retired.

To install an overdrive on your current transmission, you need to remove the cover plate on the rear of the PTO access, and there is a fear that also needs to be pulled out, to allow the overdrive to mate up. Someone probably has photos out there somewhere of a step by step installation.

SafeAirOne

07-04-2015, 10:20 PM

...remove the cover plate on the rear of the PTO access, and there is a fear that also needs to be pulled out,

Once you conquer that fear, there's a gear in there that needs to be removed. ;)

stomper

07-05-2015, 08:09 AM

LOL! serves me right for typing on my phone while waiting for the fireworks to start!

1973series3

07-06-2015, 12:40 PM