New Land Rover owner- need help/advice

[runningandroving]

Hey guys,
So in the summer of 2014, I, an 18 year old, college student, in Connecticut, came to own a 1982 RHD 88 in. Series 3 2.5L Diesel (which I recently discovered is from a SIIA) that has been owned twice in the US as my first car. I bought it with help from my Dad, and it is in worse shape than we both originally thought. Among the problems are:

Wiring issues (a previous owner wired the entire car to the point that my hazards, fog lights, left indicator, and a few other small things do not work and any other wires just are nit organized at all) [would REALLY like help and advice with this matter]
Rust (there is minimal body rust, but my firewall has exterior surface rust, and my left hand footwell is rusted)
Rotted rubbers (most of the window and door seals are totally dry, and cracked)
Oil leaks (Dad and I think that the rear main seal is faulty and that I need a new head gasket)
Aesthetic issues (chipped paint, dents, the wrong front seats, etc.)

I have fixed some things, but others are harder (seeing as I am a college student in the US, so I am bleeding money). I have new door tops from Rocky Mountain (unpainted for now), Jerry-rigged rear door seals (made out of just foam weather strip), and I have bought rear side panels with the larger windows from a guy on the other side of CT that just need paint.
What I am really looking for here is help and advice on relatively cheap, reliable, and "easy" ways of fixing my landy. Right now, It just needs to be street legal and safe, but in the future, I want to make it an expiditin and camping vehicle, so any and all suggestions are welcome. If anyone can point me in the way of a full wiring harness for all lights, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Revtor]

http://www.britishwiring.com/category-s/241.htm --if you really want a whole new wiring harness.

The electrical system on these trucks is very simple and you'd probably be better off (and save some $$) by rewiring the sections that you need to get working. You'll learn a ton about the truck and you'll know what to look for when it stops working again. Don't go nuts with originality for now, especially with wiring bits. All you need is available at any auto parts store.

Your best resource is a good diagram, a multimeter or test light and patience in tracing it all out. Write down what you find since I'm sure the PO didn't stick with stock Rover colors. The official Rover repair manual is a great thing to have. (We refer to it as the Green Bible)

Dry rotted rubber window tracks, not a big deal.. Enjoy those rocky mountain door tops! I hope you can get your old door tops off without too much cursing. ?

Surface rust on the firewall (bulkhead) can/should be sanded and neutralized with something to slow it down. Get a coat of some paint on there. Footwells rot out and new sheet metal for these is available and relatively easy to install if you've got a buddy with some basic welding experience. Or pop rivet some sheet metal over whats left and just drive it.

Oils gonna leak. Rear main is a big one, but it may be from the valve cover like dad thinks? Hopefully. Keep tabs on your levels always.

Have fun with it, get it reliable and don't sweat the small stuff. - go out and get your expedition on!!

~Steve

[Artificer]

Bad news: You're a little bit up sheet creek.

Good news: You still have a paddle.

My brother and I had a similar issue with the electrical system. The previous owner had half-assed a few modifications and botched more than a few repairs. We decided it was worth just buying a whole new wiring harness. It was worth it, but it was expensive. It was also extremely confusing for two guys in their early 20's who barely knew which end of the screwdriver goes in the socket if you want to see the pretty lights.

The footwells are part of the firewall. There are kits out there to just replace the footwells, and if you have access to some tools and a good bit of gumption you can do it yourself fairly easily. Unfortunately, footwell rust almost always means there's more rust on the firewall, which sucks. A lot. You'll need a new (expensive) firewall and the time, tools, and wherewithal to basically pull the whole front end and dash apart to replace it. Once you do that, though, the new firewall will be good for long enough to pass the truck onto your future children, assuming you didn't mess it up.

Head gaskets. Ugh. On a landy they suck less than many others to replace, but they still suck. My condolences. The head gasket itself is not expensive at all, but you'll spend many hours dicking around with the engine, in pieces, on a tarp, on the floor. While you're at it, paw through the rest of the block and see what needs replacing. I'll bet you dollars to wingnuts there's at least one thing.

While you're weeping gentle tears for your wallet and free time, take a look at the frame. In my limited experience the firewall rust came with a hefty helping of frame rust, which was hidden from a cursory glance because it's a closed tubular frame. If you take a screwdriver or hammer and tap along the frame members and it sounds at all remotely like tapping on the vent hood over your mom's stove, immediately stop what you are doing.

1. Lie down.
2. Assume the fetal position.
3. Try not to cry.
4. Cry anyway.

Compared to these four potential issues, all the leaks, dry rotted rubber and dings and scuffs are pretty much the least of your worries (unless something is leaking because of a big ass crack. Then you have new, funner problems).

You're probably wondering why you're up sheet creek but still have a paddle. Well, you haven't invested enough time and money yet to make this an exercise in masochism. You can still escape with your pride mostly intact, and your limited funds only somewhat depleted.

Summary: Sell this truck and use the recovered money to buy something with a known sturdy engine, known sturdy frame, known good gearbox, or some combination of the three; ideally at least two. If you are feeling ambitious, keep this truck as a parts truck and buy another with the same body. I wouldn't bother trying to use the firewall or engine off this current truck, but by the time you add up all the body panels, gauges, suspension/steering components etc., it might be worth it to keep it around instead of buying all new parts or buying them from Pangolin as you need them.

From what you wrote, this vehicle is a dead end. Get out before you're committed.

[rwollschlager]

College aged kid from CT eh?
1) Join CT Rovers on Facebook.
2) go to british by the sea the first Sunday of June at Harkness State park in Waterford. If you can, bring the truck, it'll be way helpful to learn firsthand from others about these and what others say about yours (do keep in mind everyone isn't an expert though)
3) Steve had an important distinction: is it the valve cover or the head gasket? Two way different things.
--Valve Cover: not so bad
--Head Gasket: sucks, but could be worse.
4) Go to Muddy Chef
5) A valuable resource for wiring is TeriAnn's site. Learn the stock colour code, obtain wiring diagram, use a test light, patience and a multi tester to find out where the previous owner dun messed up, and splice in new http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Lucaswirecode.htm (This all made a lot more sense once I took Physics II, but you don't need to take that to understand it all).
6) What part of CT?

Also, post pictures dude! http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i51/5/4/30/frabz-BRB-Using-IMagination-Since-No-Pics-c23376.jpg

-Rob
(a 22 yr old series owner from CT)

[o2batsea]

What I am really looking for here is help and advice on relatively cheap, reliable, and "easy" ways of fixing my landy.
Who isn't? You picked the wrong truck, sorry to say. S3 diesel must be among the worst trucks ever to roll out of Blighty. It can be saved tho, but not for cheap. These days restoring any car from the sixties-eighties will cost 20 large just to start.
The things you describe would best be addressed by some major disassembly that will deadline the truck for (likely) months. Probably years seeing that your tiime is being taken up with being a student, a kid, and not a full time mechanic.
Replacing an entire wiring harness is a fairly huge and painful experience. If it is possible to go thru each circuit one by one and remedy issues that way, then that would be best for now.
As for major problems like the rear main, the transmission has to come out which means the seat box and floors do too. That gives you an opportunity to address other things like the footwells. You'll soon find that you will start getting into "while I'm at it" projects that will prolong having the truck offline.
For now you should concentrate on things that are needed to get the thing running and driving and defer stuff like door seals and coachroof sides for when you have more coin. Brakes, fluids, leaks, then make it pretty.
Honestly there's a lot of info on the web, 90 percent of which is useless gobbledegook, but you are too fresh to know the difference.
So download the pdf workshop manual and get busy repairing the rear main seal.

PS, I take that back. the Series 2B with the 2 and a quarter diesel is the worst. Or is it the Freelander? Heck, can't decide.

[runningandroving]

College aged kid from CT eh?
1) Join CT Rovers on Facebook.
2) go to british by the sea the first Sunday of June at Harkness State park in Waterford. If you can, bring the truck, it'll be way helpful to learn firsthand from others about these and what others say about yours (do keep in mind everyone isn't an expert though)
3) Steve had an important distinction: is it the valve cover or the head gasket? Two way different things.
--Valve Cover: not so bad
--Head Gasket: sucks, but could be worse.
4) Go to Muddy Chef
5) A valuable resource for wiring is TeriAnn's site. Learn the stock colour code, obtain wiring diagram, use a test light, patience and a multi tester to find out where the previous owner dun messed up, and splice in new http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Lucaswirecode.htm (This all made a lot more sense once I took Physics II, but you don't need to take that to understand it all).
6) What part of CT?

Also, post pictures dude! http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i51/5/4/30/frabz-BRB-Using-IMagination-Since-No-Pics-c23376.jpg

-Rob
(a 22 yr old series owner from CT)

I will definitely join Ct Rovers! Thanks!

I already plan on goin to British By the Sea. My dad owns an old Austin Mini, so we are super familiar with the guys there, and I'll be damned if I don't have my truck there hahaha.

I will check out the wiring site there. Thanks again

I'm out between Norwich and Willimantic, and a summer campsite in Mystic. How bout yourself?

I will definitely throw on some pictures!

Thanks again!

[runningandroving]

http://www.britishwiring.com/category-s/241.htm --if you really want a whole new wiring harness.

The electrical system on these trucks is very simple and you'd probably be better off (and save some $$) by rewiring the sections that you need to get working. You'll learn a ton about the truck and you'll know what to look for when it stops working again. Don't go nuts with originality for now, especially with wiring bits. All you need is available at any auto parts store.

Your best resource is a good diagram, a multimeter or test light and patience in tracing it all out. Write down what you find since I'm sure the PO didn't stick with stock Rover colors. The official Rover repair manual is a great thing to have. (We refer to it as the Green Bible)

Dry rotted rubber window tracks, not a big deal.. Enjoy those rocky mountain door tops! I hope you can get your old door tops off without too much cursing. ?

Surface rust on the firewall (bulkhead) can/should be sanded and neutralized with something to slow it down. Get a coat of some paint on there. Footwells rot out and new sheet metal for these is available and relatively easy to install if you've got a buddy with some basic welding experience. Or pop rivet some sheet metal over whats left and just drive it.

Oils gonna leak. Rear main is a big one, but it may be from the valve cover like dad thinks? Hopefully. Keep tabs on your levels always.

Have fun with it, get it reliable and don't sweat the small stuff. - go out and get your expedition on!!

~Steve

I gotta say, thank you a lot.

I am still trying to figure out what to do with the wiring, because I could spot fix it, or rewire the whole thing. I think I might do both down the road, just so I know what does what, where, why in terms of wiring.

I do have the Green Bible, and a few other manuals ( Christmas was a good day for me ;) ) so I have that as a starting point.

The door tops look great on my truck. One stud on each of he old tops broke because they were so rusty, so I may have lost that battle a bit. I love the new ones though. They are so much sturdier.

Yeah, I definitely get the "oils gonna leak" situation. I just wanna stop the bleeding as much as possible, so I want to pin down the problem(s). We aren't 100% sure on the valve cover/head gasket ( not sure which yet) but the rear main is almost guaranteed.

Thanks so much Steve. I appreciate the help

[runningandroving]

107521075310754

Here are some just general (and low quality) pictures, just for a visual of whats goin on.

These are from the first day home, and still have the old door tops. I'll take some new pictures and post them later, with better detail

[stomper]

Do you have an oil pressure gauge in the dash? In the series IIa models, the oil pressure gauge has a hose that runs from the oil filter housing, behind the engine, and to the back of the gauge. As these get old and brittle, they spring a leak, and can lose a lot of oil that drips down over the bell housing, and looks like a rear main seal leak.

Might want to do a quick inspection of that hose before you dive into removing the transmission or the engine to replace the rear main seal.

[runningandroving]

Do you have an oil pressure gauge in the dash? In the series IIa models, the oil pressure gauge has a hose that runs from the oil filter housing, behind the engine, and to the back of the gauge. As these get old and brittle, they spring a leak, and can lose a lot of oil that drips down over the bell housing, and looks like a rear main seal leak.

Might want to do a quick inspection of that hose before you dive into removing the transmission or the engine to replace the rear main seal.

I don't think that I do, in fact I am mostly certain I don't. But I will snoop around before hand.

[lumpydog]

Kid -

Don't let the posts here scare you off. There is a grain of truth to all of them, but - it sounds to me like you have the drive and enthusiasm to tackle this stuff. That overcomes a lot and will keep your rover running.

A few thoughts:

- don't worry about the leaks if they are smaller that a half dollar on your driveway after a day. If the leaks are frisbee sized, that's an issue.

- for the wiring, the green bible has a great wiring diagram. Study it. It's way easier than you think to sort it out. Get a multimeter and learn how to use it (it's not hard). Try to use the right tools (bullets, crimper) and the right wires when making repairs.

- get her running and then work on the aesthetics. It's way more fun to own and drive your rover than have it in pieces and off-the road. The fun you have driving/using her will maintain your enthusiasm and drive to keep working on her and you won't lose interest/monumentum.

- read the green bible. Search this forum. Still stuck? Ask questions here!

- with regard to the rotted rubbers, buy some fresh condoms. You're going to get some serious tail driving that Rover around campus.

That Rover will take good care of you if you take good care of it!

[ignotus]

I too say don't listen to the naysayers. As long as you do lots of the work it doesn't have to be too expensive. Here's a good source for wiring diagrams; http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/forum/index.php/topic,58789.0.html Unfortunately as the others have posted you have to go thru British wiring to obtain a wiring harness, and you probably only need a front.
Find local Landy owners, join other forums, search out parts suppliers, Gooooooooooooooooooooogle is your friend.

HTH

[runningandroving]

Kid -

Don't let the posts here scare you off. There is a grain of truth to all of them, but - it sounds to me like you have the drive and enthusiasm to tackle this stuff. That overcomes a lot and will keep your rover running.

A few thoughts:

- don't worry about the leaks if they are smaller that a half dollar on your driveway after a day. If the leaks are frisbee sized, that's an issue.

- for the wiring, the green bible has a great wiring diagram. Study it. It's way easier than you think to sort it out. Get a multimeter and learn how to use it (it's not hard). Try to use the right tools (bullets, crimper) and the right wires when making repairs.

- get her running and then work on the aesthetics. It's way more fun to own and drive your rover than have it in pieces and off-the road. The fun you have driving/using her will maintain your enthusiasm and drive to keep working on her and you won't lose interest/monumentum.

- read the green bible. Search this forum. Still stuck? Ask questions here!

- with regard to the rotted rubbers, buy some fresh condoms. You're going to get some serious tail driving that Rover around campus.

That Rover will take good care of you if you take good care of it!

Thank you very much. I definitely take a grain of salt with anything internet based, but theres truth behind it.

Yeah, I have to sit down with the GB and learn the ropes and diagrams and symbols with the wiring.

I am definitely looking to get safety and the basics out of the way and then obviously aesthetic and my daydreams done later

I knew I would get someone on here makin a rubbers joke. Sure got a laugh out of that ;)

[runningandroving]

I too say don't listen to the naysayers. As long as you do lots of the work it doesn't have to be too expensive. Here's a good source for wiring diagrams; http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/forum/index.php/topic,58789.0.html Unfortunately as the others have posted you have to go thru British wiring to obtain a wiring harness, and you probably only need a front.
Find local Landy owners, join other forums, search out parts suppliers, Gooooooooooooooooooooogle is your friend.

HTH

yeah, I am really trying to network right now and get my hands on guys who know wha they are about and have accurate and working cars. hence the reason I am here and the reason I am going to British By the Sea.

[rwollschlager]

pm inbound

[warrenperkinson]

Head gaskets. Ugh. On a landy they suck less than many others to replace, but they still suck. My condolences. The head gasket itself is not expensive at all, but you'll spend many hours dicking around with the engine, in pieces, on a tarp, on the floor. While you're at it, paw through the rest of the block and see what needs replacing. I'll bet you dollars to wingnuts there's at least one thing.

That's a bit harsh! I'm not familiar with the diesel but on the petrol models the head gasket replacement isn't that difficult. It helps if you can find someone who's done one before (your Dad, maybe?). But don't be put off, and the sIII will be way easier to do than a more modern vehicle. The tolerances on there old engines are pretty forgiving.

[runningandroving]

That's a bit harsh! I'm not familiar with the diesel but on the petrol models the head gasket replacement isn't that difficult. It helps if you can find someone who's done one before (your Dad, maybe?). But don't be put off, and the sIII will be way easier to do than a more modern vehicle. The tolerances on there old engines are pretty forgiving.

Yeah I can't imagine a head gasket is too hard. My Grandfather owns a Model T Ford restoration business (yes I understand those are wayyyyyyy different) and he doe gaskets all the time, so it's most likely the same basic concept. Dad's hasn't done Land Rover work before, but he used to build race cars and has owned a few 4x4s and trucks along the way, so I am sure that between them, and youtube, and people in the LR community, we can get it all sorted out.

[o2batsea]

If the diesel is running, then you probably don't have a head gasket problem. That doesn't mean it doesn't have oil leaks tho. Check the oil feed tube at the back pf the engine. this has copper gaskets that leak if not nipped up tight. Also the valve cover gasket is notorious, along with the rubber valve cover bolt washers. Keep in mind that the diesel runs at roughly 23:1 compression, so if the rings are not in good order it will blow-by something awful. That puts lots of air into the crank case. The venting for that is direct to the atmosphere so you can sometimes get what looks like a leak that is really accumulated oil mist. Ditto valve guides.
The Lucas-CAV diesel pump and injectors are the same as used on countless Massey-Ferguson tractors, Perkins diesels both marine and industrial, and just about every British Diesel powered anything from the 60-80s. Parts are easy to get and most diesel shops have all the parts you need.

[runningandroving]

If the diesel is running, then you probably don't have a head gasket problem. That doesn't mean it doesn't have oil leaks tho. Check the oil feed tube at the back pf the engine. this has copper gaskets that leak if not nipped up tight. Also the valve cover gasket is notorious, along with the rubber valve cover bolt washers. Keep in mind that the diesel runs at roughly 23:1 compression, so if the rings are not in good order it will blow-by something awful. That puts lots of air into the crank case. The venting for that is direct to the atmosphere so you can sometimes get what looks like a leak that is really accumulated oil mist. Ditto valve guides.
The Lucas-CAV diesel pump and injectors are the same as used on countless Massey-Ferguson tractors, Perkins diesels both marine and industrial, and just about every British Diesel powered anything from the 60-80s. Parts are easy to get and most diesel shops have all the parts you need.

Honestly, I am gonna have to pull out the dictionary for half of that. but, would any of that have any affect on how bad I am blowing smoke? Cus that is something that happens. a lot. particularly in reverse and first, I am blowing smoke. but it is also an old diesel. So any input there would be nice.

[o2batsea]

Diesels make smoke three ways. Too much fuel in the mix, too much engine oil in the mix and too much water (coolant) in the mix.
Color is black, blue/grey, and white respectively; the color of the smoke helps in the diagnosis. The older the engine the more those three start to intermix, which can make it hard to pinpoint what to try to fix first. You should have a compression and leak down test done by a shop so that you can tell how healthy the rings pistons and valves are. If they are reasonably close to being right then you are probably looking at dirty injectors or overfueling, assuming the smoke is black-ish.
If the smoke is blue or grey then you are consuming engine oil. That's worse as it means the rings or valve guides are worn out. Since you say it happens more at low speed that would be my first suspicion. Consider too that the thing probably hasn't been run all that much, so it may settle down some with more driving.
Off road, you just put the truck in low low, and let it walk over stuff, keeping your foot off the loud pedal. The Series diesels really benefit from at least a rear locking diff, as they tend to have enough torque but the tires break loose.
I suffered for ten years with one of those engines. I even rebuilt it, and it still was the slowest thing. Now running a 200tdi. All I can say is wow.

[SafeAirOne]

I'm still not clear on whether the engine is a 2.5 diesel or a diesel engine originally from a series IIA (or a series 3 for that mater); Terms which are mutually-exclusive, as I don't believe the 2.5 was ever installed by the factory, in a Series rover...


Series 3 2.5L Diesel (which I recently discovered is from a SIIA)

[o2batsea]

A pic will tell all.

[runningandroving]

Diesels make smoke three ways. Too much fuel in the mix, too much engine oil in the mix and too much water (coolant) in the mix.
Color is black, blue/grey, and white respectively; the color of the smoke helps in the diagnosis. The older the engine the more those three start to intermix, which can make it hard to pinpoint what to try to fix first. You should have a compression and leak down test done by a shop so that you can tell how healthy the rings pistons and valves are. If they are reasonably close to being right then you are probably looking at dirty injectors or overfueling, assuming the smoke is black-ish.
If the smoke is blue or grey then you are consuming engine oil. That's worse as it means the rings or valve guides are worn out. Since you say it happens more at low speed that would be my first suspicion. Consider too that the thing probably hasn't been run all that much, so it may settle down some with more driving.
Off road, you just put the truck in low low, and let it walk over stuff, keeping your foot off the loud pedal. The Series diesels really benefit from at least a rear locking diff, as they tend to have enough torque but the tires break loose.
I suffered for ten years with one of those engines. I even rebuilt it, and it still was the slowest thing. Now running a 200tdi. All I can say is wow.

I think that you are right about the oil consumption. The smoke does tend to be bluish and grey. I don't know if I have the funds for a compression test just yet ( Next semesters tuition is due soon) but if I can, I will try and find a shop. I also know that you are right in saying that it has just sat for a while, I was told by the previous owner that it was.
I definitely want to get the 200tdi conversion, but again, currency is important for the exchange of goods and services.

I am gonna go pop off a quick photo for you guys, but based on what I have read, and what I was told, and the research I have done, it is a 2.25 Series IIA diesel engine.

[runningandroving]

I'm still not clear on whether the engine is a 2.5 diesel or a diesel engine originally from a series IIA (or a series 3 for that mater); Terms which are mutually-exclusive, as I don't believe the 2.5 was ever installed by the factory, in a Series rover...

that was a typo. totally meant 2.25

[runningandroving]

10758107591076010761

here ya go.
so full engine compartment view
down below the oil fill tube, where there is a build up of oil
Top of motor, right side, more oil
Again, forward lower left, more oil

[SafeAirOne]

To me, it looks like your typical valve cover leakage. In fact, I'd be happy if mine looked that nice.

Using the old "trial and error" method, you may be able to clear up much of the smoking by adjusting the injector pump timing. Just need to find that sweet spot between smoking and knocking.

[runningandroving]

To me, it looks like your typical valve cover leakage. In fact, I'd be happy if mine looked that nice.

Using the old "trial and error" method, you may be able to clear up much of the smoking by adjusting the injector pump timing. Just need to find that sweet spot between smoking and knocking.

Alright, I will put that on the list. Thanks much

[triumphtr7guy]

Can of Mystry Oil or two can do wonders for stuck rings!!! run for a while with a couple of cans in, making sure to subtract from the oil pan accordingly, run for 500 or so miles then do an oil change and see if anything changes

[Les Parker]

Clean ! The HRC # would usually mean it's an early 2.25 Defender head, though it's interesting it has the early style glow plugs in it.

[tkneese]

you couldn't have picked a better vehicle than a series rover! its the summer, take the top and doors off! mine barely has any paint but it can fit a whole bachelorette party... they all have their issues but get her going and worry about the cosmetics later. I've been very frusterated and down at times but just work your way through it and you'll be glad you did

10775

[runningandroving]

HAHAH! Thank you, I needed that! I don't listen to the nay-sayers one bit, hell I'm up for a challenge. I just ordered a ton of electrics today, and I'm gonna hammer them out this weekend, so hopefully I will be able to cruise after that.