Frankenstein 67 (69?) 88"...Need some Advice

[uncbsba]

So I need some expert advice. I am looking at purchasing a 67 SIIA that appears to be in good mechanical shape but has a potentially major red flag. The Rover experts i sent the pics to are confident this is in fact a 69 bug-eye (based on the dash, wings, heater, brakes, seats, etc). The truck has a clean title and the serial number (on the title, not the body) shows a 66 production with a 67. It has a new galvanized frame (aka no SN on frame), parabolic springs, OME shocks, 3spd with OD, Boosted drums, etc. The SN plate on the body was removed but the owner has ordered another from the factory (using the SN on the title).

My concerns are probably obvious, but I am new to the Rover community. Is this a major red flag on these Series or is this par for the course? Is $12k too much based on the mixed past (if so, does anyone have an idea on the market for something like this?)? Here is a link to some photos of the truck to give you a better idea of condition... http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Joeboblglt/library/1967%20Series%20IIa

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help.

J

[lumpydog]

What's the serial number? It's no earlier than a 69. Someone added an older 2a breakfast and filled in the older wing mounted headlamp holes - which are holes, not squares... bugeye

The serial number, dollars to doughnuts, falls between 24435243F and 24436302F...

As these trucks go, it has some things going for it... galvy frame, parabolic springs, overdrive....

But, there is a lot a prior owner artwork... uninformed repairs, hack jobs and stuff you will have to undo. If you want a project, there a worse choices... but, for the price - there are better choices.

Personally, all the hacked stuff... it makes me wonder what you can't see. The wiring harness is a mess by the way. If you don't know electrical systems this is a big project.

What part of the country are you located?

[o2batsea]

The sketchy nature of the title would be enough for me to walk away from this. Without the original VIN plate and matching title it is a parts truck.

[Partsman]

The sketchy nature of the title would be enough for me to walk away from this. Without the original VIN plate and matching title it is a parts truck.

Not entirely unheard of on an American owned Series, cloning is much more common over seas in the UK, where the older trucks have tax exempt status, here it's just not worth it to fake a truck, much more likely that over the years the original VIN plate got misplaced, and the year of the truck got mixed up as the thing changed hands from one owner to the next. I personally think the price is a bit high for the amount of work needed to make it a reliable truck, but over-all not bad. I wouldn't let the slight discrepancies in the year of the truck deter me from buying it. If this had been a frame off resto in the UK, they would have kept the dumb-iron off the original chassis with the serial number on it. If you have concerns about the truck, ask if the owner kept the part of the chassis with the serial number on it. Though I would fall far short of calling this a parts truck, Bill you're just being a Series snob.

[I Leak Oil]

There is no real way to know what the original truck was without some honest history from the person who did all the work. VIN tags are easy to swap on these but so are ALL the parts. The original truck could have very well been a beat up 1967 and perhaps the owner decided to use a later parts vehicle to do the rebuild.
Sounds like it could be a solid vehicle. Just make sure if you pursue it that you get the title and matching VIN tag. If there are no numbers stamped into the chassis there is no way to prove it's NOT what the title says it is. Bolt on parts like wings and heaters don't make it so.
Really depends on your comfort level with the whole package.

[lumpydog]

Most of the truck appears to be bugeye genre. The breakfast is not. The outer wing skins are not (missing side markers). And the hand break lever is from an earlier series. The rest of the truck (rear light configuration, steering wheel, dash panel layout, old headlight holes, etc) is consistent with a bugeye.

When you see stuff like the PCV tube coming off the oil filler and being lead to a fuel filter that is connected to nothing (vs the missing PCV valve)… stuff hard wired to the battery… A lot of electrical tape used at wire junctions… It signals more underlying issues and/or neglect. It doesn't mean you run away from it - just know what you're getting into and what it's worth..

[lumpydog]

P.S. J - let us know where you are. Someone from this forum/bbs may be able to help:

1) By looking at it with you
2) Pointing you to other trucks that might be known to the participants.

[uncbsba]

The SN on the title is 24423416B. 99.9% its not from this truck (maybe from the previous chassis?). As far as the current owner can tell, there isn't record of any other SN associated with the vehicle. I hate to do it, but I think I will end up passing on this truck. I really appreciate all the feedback. If anyone knows of a good SII or III that you recommend, I am actively looking. Location wise I am in the Southeast (Charlotte, NC specifically). Let me know if you hear of anything.

Best,
Jason

[darbsclt]

If anyone knows of a good SII or III that you recommend, I am actively looking. Location wise I am in the Southeast (Charlotte, NC specifically). Let me know if you hear of anything.

Best,
Jason

Hi Jason,

I live in South Charlotte also... I'll send you a PM with my phone number/e-mail address. If you want, I'll be happy to go over my '66 Series with you and help you understand the areas you might want to look/look out for. If you've never driven a Series... it would be a good opportunity for you to experience one first hand.

Cheers!

Charlie

[ArlowCT]

First, I'm using my phone to see the pictures so please forgive me if I am missing something obvious and I understand everyone has their own comfort levels as to what they are willing to deal with.

Why makes this truck a Bugeye? To me it looks like a IIA that was built just before the Bugeyes and had Bugeye fenders added at some point. The VIN shows this truck as a late IIA (I think I read it right) which makes sense to me.

It looks like a great truck! All the big jobs have been done and as long as all the lights and what not work it could be enjoyed as is from day one. One weekend of wiring would take care of any other major concerns and would even provide the opportunity to upgrade the wiring to something more robust than the factory harness. I agree the 12k price to a little tall but I see no reason to run from this truck.

[lumpydog]

The serial number 24423416B would have it be produced sometime in 1965 according to this information: Link here (http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.chassis_numbering.244.html)

Also suffix B chassis were only built up to 1965… Link here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.roversnorth.com%2Fattachme nt.php%3Fattachmentid%3D10839%26d%3D1433679791&ei=6TaVVYzUNIq5ggTetICgDQ&usg=AFQjCNFKUdkRXw5oZm_cjmj5ivBq4oqesg&sig2=ohO4jmLAi8zcBpqx6lxFXg&bvm=bv.96952980,d.eXY).

The three spoke steering wheel on that truck is 1967 or later. As is the wiper system (single motor). The dash configuration is 1968 or later - ignition key with hazard switch above on on a single small panel the left of the larger instrument cluster panel (introduced with the bugeye) with the oil pressure gauge and ashtray on a separate small panel to its left. The rear tail light configuration is 1968 or later (introduced with the bugeye). The vent/windshield blower system is 1968 or later (introduced with the bugeye). Dual circuit vacuum assist breaks are 1968 or later (introduced with the bugeye).

The only evidence I see on that truck of it being pre-bugeye are the breakfast and the hand break… The seller claims its a 67. The serial number with suffix B is at the latest 65.

98% of the truck is consistent with it being a bugeye…

I think you just need to go into something like this with your eyes open. Know what it's worth and what it's going to cost to get it to where you want it. The mess with the title and serial number becomes your mess when it's time to sell it.

[lumpydog]

Hi Jason,

I live in South Charlotte also... I'll send you a PM with my phone number/e-mail address. If you want, I'll be happy to go over my '66 Series with you and help you understand the areas you might want to look/look out for. If you've never driven a Series... it would be a good opportunity for you to experience one first hand.

Cheers!

Charlie

Good on ya Charlie!

Jason - this is the route I took. When I found my first Rover I almost bought it - but asked the right people for advice and walked away. People like Charlie and others here will help you get the right truck. There are plenty out there :-)

[ArlowCT]

The serial number 24423416B would have it be produced sometime in 1965 according to this information: Link here (http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.chassis_numbering.244.html)

Also suffix B chassis were only built up to 1965… Link here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.roversnorth.com%2Fattachme nt.php%3Fattachmentid%3D10839%26d%3D1433679791&ei=6TaVVYzUNIq5ggTetICgDQ&usg=AFQjCNFKUdkRXw5oZm_cjmj5ivBq4oqesg&sig2=ohO4jmLAi8zcBpqx6lxFXg&bvm=bv.96952980,d.eXY).

The three spoke steering wheel on that truck is 1967 or later. As is the wiper system (single motor). The dash configuration is 1968 or later - ignition key with hazard switch above on on a single small panel the left of the larger instrument cluster panel (introduced with the bugeye) with the oil pressure gauge and ashtray on a separate small panel to its left. The rear tail light configuration is 1968 or later (introduced with the bugeye). The vent/windshield blower system is 1968 or later (introduced with the bugeye). Dual circuit vacuum assist breaks are 1968 or later (introduced with the bugeye).

The only evidence I see on that truck of it being pre-bugeye are the breakfast and the hand break… The seller claims its a 67. The serial number with suffix B is at the latest 65.

98% of the truck is consistent with it being a bugeye…

I think you just need to go into something like this with your eyes open. Know what it's worth and what it's going to cost to get it to where you want it. The mess with the title and serial number becomes your mess when it's time to sell it.

Thanks for taking the time to point out the differences, up until this point I was very unaware of many of them.

[lumpydog]

Thanks for taking the time to point out the differences, up until this point I was very unaware of many of them.

I don't pretend to be a know it all! I just know boring/insignificant details about the 68/69 vintage Rovers because I almost bought a bugeye and spent a lot of time researching what made them different. I ended up buying a 68 that is just pre-bugeye and have been interested in learning about how the series trucks transitioned in different ways from 68 through 69. Much dictated by federal relations on US imports. My 68 is among the last NADA trucks with the headlights on the breakfast. A handful of the parts on my truck were only used for a year or so during the transition…