Starter Solenoid on 63 IIa

[timc930]

Is the starter solenoid part of the push button starter switch on the 63 LHD 88?

tim

[SafeAirOne]

No solenoid. Just a huge push-button switch sending full power to the starter motor (though if you wanted to incorporate a solenoid, what you described would be the way to do it).

Have a look:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/496/18756382553_3978fc7ca3_z.jpg

[antichrist]

What Mark said.
If you're asking because yours is dead you could go with something like this, if you don't care about originality. (the photos aren't to scale)
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/images/product/v3090030.jpg + http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/images/nprod/v3024213.jpg

http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cole-hersee-90030/switch-push-button-momentary-start-p-v30-90030
and
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cole-hersee-24213/solenoid-continuous-4pole-12v-carbide-p-v30-24213
200amp continuous duty solenoid with silver contacts.

[timc930]

Thanks Mark/Tom...

Starter is turning over very very slow, all connections are good, so I am getting ready to purchase and install one of these, and did not know if I needed to engage (use) or bypass the solenoid.

Question on the switch, I assume the switch either works or it does not, and if the connections (power/ground) are good would either send all or none of the power to the starter. So if the starter is dragging, it should be a failing starter?

http://www.britishstarters.com/Land_Rover.html

tim

[SafeAirOne]

Yes, if the starter is doing SOMETHING when you press the button, then there is a connection being made. The question is: "is the connection adequate to carry the full electrical load?".

Being lazy, I'd test the starter by chocking the wheels and putting the transmission in neutral with hand brake on. Then I'd connect one of my jumper cable leads to the input terminal of the starter, being careful that the lead makes contact with NOTHING else at any time, then I'd stand off to the side of the vehicle and touch the lead on the other end of the jumper cable to the correct terminal on the battery (positive terminal for a negative-earth rover or the negative terminal for a positive-earth vehicle).

If the starter still turns over weakly, then either there is poor electrical connection somewhere in the path between the starter and the engine block and the battery, or the starter is dirty and needs to be cleaned, or the starter needs maintenance or replacement.

If the starter runs like a scalded dog, then the problem is upstream of the starter (corroded battery terminals, connections or starting switch).

NOTE: If the battery has been in a charging state immediately before you do this test, let the hydrogen gas dissipate before making any sparks around the battery terminal (like when you connect a jumper cable to the battery terminal).

[timc930]

Could I disconnect the battery cable from the starter switch and touch to the starter side of the switch to bypass switch just to rule out switch? Obivously wearing gloves and fireproof suit....

tim

[SafeAirOne]

Could I disconnect the battery cable from the starter switch and touch to the starter side of the switch to bypass switch just to rule out switch? Obivously wearing gloves and fireproof suit....

tim

Yes, though that won't isolate the starter and the electrical return path as the culprit as you could still have a faulty connection in the power supply path. Instead you will eliminate the switch only as a possible cause.

Either way, I'd still make the final energizing connection at the battery and not any of the other terminals. This means disconnecting the battery end of the wire, pairing up the battery wire with the starter wire so they're on the same lug on the starter switch, then energizing the whole thing by touching the battery cable to the battery.

The reason for this is that when you touch a hot wire to a terminal in a live, high-amp circuit like this, there is an arc, just like arc welding, and it tends to cause damage to whatever the arc briefly melts. Melting the lead terminal end of the battery wire is no problem. Knackering up the threads on the starter terminal posts is quite a bit less-desirable.

You could always clamp one end of a jumper cable to the starter wire at the switch and touch the other end to the appropriate battery terminal. This will eliminate everything upstream of the starter except that wire from the switch to the starter.

[antichrist]

Here's a good troubleshooting process to tell you where the issue is.
http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_training/training_4.php

Here's a good video on the topic.
https://youtu.be/UhT2cNCfTXc

Just because the connections look good, doesn't mean you don't have bad cables.
This is 6" from the cable lug on a starter cable from a Land Rover I bought a few years ago.
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/rover_driver/RoverParts/Electrical/corrosion2.jpg

[Enigma]

What maintenance does one do for a starter? What lube do you use and where and how much should I use?

[antichrist]

Starters are pretty much maintenance free.
The best way to take care of them is make sure your battery is charged and your connections and cables are in good shape with no corrosion (I use dielectric grease on all positive connections and Never-Seez on all earth connections, or the reverse for positive earth vehicles. I use AGM batteries so don't use anything on the battery posts, but dielectric grease or the spray stuff wouldn't hurt.

[SafeAirOne]

What maintenance does one do for a starter? What lube do you use and where and how much should I use?


I'm thinking along the lines of making sure the mechanism that throws the pinion out to engage the flywheel isn't all gunked up, that the rotor bearings have lubricant (if possible on the old starters--not sure what type of bearings they use), that the brushes aren't knackered, etc.

[antichrist]

I'm thinking along the lines of making sure the mechanism that throws the pinion out to engage the flywheel isn't all gunked up, that the rotor bearings have lubricant (if possible on the old starters--not sure what type of bearings they use), that the brushes aren't knackered, etc.All good things if the starter is out. I was thinking routine maintenance.

[timc930]

So I've cleaned all the connections, disconnected the battery cable, then moved the end at the switch over to the starter side, touched the battery cable to battery (now direct power to starter) and the starter still drags as if tremendous amount of resistance, but the truck will start and run fine, just takes a bit more. I think at this point I am going to pull the starter and just order one of the high torque Nippondenso starters from British Starters. I think I want to slowly upgrade all the electric components, already installed the Pertronix Dist and Coil. I'll post updates after I get the new starter installed.....

tim

[o2batsea]

The brushes on the starter motor are likely worn out. Take it to your local armature shop. They can refresh it for cheap. They'll turn the commutator, install brushes, check the bushings, lube it up and throw a coat of paint on it and probably only charge you $50.

[triumphtr7guy]

good pic Tom, had a Ford Explorer that the positive went under the bell housing and then up again to the starter, failed on me , thought it was the starter, checked some more, opened up the wire, had maybe 2 strands and whole lot of copper oxide.
Also on my S III, the connector to the starter was steel! gave the same type of fail, pulled the wire, soldered in a copper connector and all is right with the world

Bruce 73 Series III
80 TR7 awaiting reinstall of head

[chuckstp]

I'm not sure I would completely discount the switch. That's not to say the issue isn't somewhere else, but the switch is simply closing a set of contacts and is prone to failure. Every time the contacts open or close, you can get arching which will tend to burn the contacts. Eventually, this will increase the resistance of the switch and it will likely have a brownout or intermittent phase before it goes completely bad.

Unfortunately this isn't something you can check with an ohm meter, but you should be able to check for a voltage drop directly across the switch (or any of the wires in the circuit) when the switch is depressed. With my digital meter, I get about .33 volts across the switch when the starter is running. It takes about one second to get a good reading with the settling time of the meter.

[timc930]

So finally got around to installing the starter from British Starters. Super small, light, and spins the little engine over like mad. Hopefully RN will carry this product....It was going to cost me over $100 to have the old one rebuilt, so I just purchased the one from BS.

tim

[antichrist]

In the next few years I'd get a set of the solenoid contacts and stick in your traveling spares kit. They are about the only thing that goes on the Denso starters and they are an easy trail-side replacement.