metal chunks in my transmission

[DGG]

I wanted to replace the transmission, and transfer box fluids in my 61 109 Station wagon before I install the freshly painted seat box. When draining the gearbox, metal chunks came out, and I put my finger in the drain hole and felt more metal chunks. Is there a particular part that commonly breaks in these? What am I in for as far as repair? I'm doing a frame off refurbishment, and I have complete access to the transmission and transfer box.

Incidentally, when draining the transfer box, ATF came out.

[SafeAirOne]

Are the chunks steel or brass? Flat (like a shim) or do they have more mass?

Pics?

[DGG]

They were pretty substantial chunks. Not sure if they are brass or steel. I will check.

[DGG]

All brass chunks. A few pieces look like they could be clutch pieces of some sort, and the other pieces were shafts that had a rotating part in the middle like a bearing. I looked in my workshop manual, but couldn't find any pieces similar.

[SafeAirOne]

Do you have a pic of the debris?

[DGG]

Here you go. Seems like something catastrophic happened.11000

[o2batsea]

Wow. No problems detected when driving?

[SafeAirOne]

Yes. Wow.


That's a COMPLETE synchronizer unit that's been destroyed there.

http://log-rover.co.uk/Putting%20things%20together/slides/28th%20february%202008%20018.jpg

[DGG]

Wow. No problems detected when driving?

I've never driven the truck. I bought it 10 years ago, and immediately started the tear down. It wasn't running when I bought it.

[DGG]

I'm looking for an engine hoist to pull the gearbox etc...What am I in for?

[DGG]

Our hosts have the synchronizer. Genuine-$360 Proline-$160

[triumphtr7guy]

Morning Doug,

Well, glad you werent the one driving when that went, that must have gone with a bang.
You could get an engine hoist for pulling the tranny, if you have a concrete floor to work on, you could get a tranny cradle that fits into where the cup goes on a floor jack. and since the landy is mostly up in the air already, you wont have to jack it up too much, unlike when I have used the cradle on TR7's. Cradle is handy, you may find the engine hoist a little more utilitarian and useful than the cradle , as the cradle is pretty much a single purpose tool, the hoist comes in handy for lifting all kinds of things. Hoist will run you around $150, check your local aoto parts store, Harbor Freight if you have one nearby, I seem to remember Sears sells one. check their catalog.
Good luck, keep us posted

Bruce 80 TR7, almost done, almost
73 Series III next in line for the garage

[o2batsea]

I know of a couple good used transmissions. I wouldn't fool with that one.

[DGG]

Tell me more. How much, and where?

[slowmo]

Like the others have said you lost the syncro minimally. Just tear it down and see what else is messed up before making any decisions.

I had to rebuild my transmission earlier this year. Below is the thread on that. Honestly it is not that difficult of a job. Since you are doing a frame off restoration I would just do it rather than getting another tranny that may or may not have its' own problems. You can rent a hoist for $40 or so. The parts for my rebuild was around $1000 (all new bearings, couple of shafts, some gears).

http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?15962-Oh-noooo-tranmission!!

[DGG]

Thanks. I did read that post. I am up for the challenge. Like you said, I'll tear it apart and go from there.

[cedryck]

Atf ugh!!!

[DGG]

Got the gearbox and transfer case out, and am in the process of taking it apart. Was wondering if I should replace the clutch plate or anything on that end while I have great access.

[mearstrae]

Give everything a good check, and change anything that even looks marginal, no sense in taking things back apart again in a year or two to set something right.

'99 Disco II
'95 R.R.C. Lwb (Gone...)
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[DGG]

some preliminary shots. Anything look unusual so far?11051

[DGG]

another

[slowmo]

I wouldn't put that back on. New clutch/pressure plate, (can't tell about throw-out bearing) and that starter ring gear doesn't look too great either.

So to answer your question, nothing unusual! :p

[DGG]

It's still on the engine. You're saying replace with new?

[slowmo]

I would. It would be quite a pain to put it all together and two weeks later the clutch goes out. The ring gear might be ok, but again why risk it. I learned my lesson on a '61 MG Midget when I was a poor student. Clutch went out about a week or so after an engine rebuild. I - was - not - happy.

[DGG]

Yes. I figure I should replace all questionable parts while I have such good access to everything.

[DGG]

I'm currently dismantling the entire transmission. Everything is going well. The synchromesh was completely destroyed, but so far that seems like the only damage. All the other stuff looks pretty good.

My plans are to replace all the bearings and seals. Breaking down the individual systems is going pretty smoothly except for one thing so far.

Removing the output shaft is proving difficult. My workshop manual says "To remove the output shaft, first remove the circlip retaining the front bearing in the transfer box casing" I did that without any problem.

Next, "using a soft faced mallet, drive the output shaft rearwards to free the rear bearing outer race from the casing". This is where I am having trouble. The output shaft doesn't seem to want to move. Maybe I'm not hitting it hard enough, or there is some trick to it. I was thinking about taking it to my local mechanic and have him press it out, but I would like to do it myself. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[SafeAirOne]

My workshop manual says "To remove the output shaft, first remove the circlip retaining the front bearing in the transfer box casing" I did that without any problem.

Next, "using a soft faced mallet, drive the output shaft rearwards to free the rear bearing outer race from the casing". This is where I am having trouble. The output shaft doesn't seem to want to move. Maybe I'm not hitting it hard enough, or there is some trick to it. I was thinking about taking it to my local mechanic and have him press it out, but I would like to do it myself. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Not that it matters, but the circlip removal is step 8 in my SIII WSM. Removal of the rear bearing race is steps 4 & 5. I had no problems using the following procedures when I did mine. Hit it harder...or maybe a bigger hammer is in order? I think I used a large ball peen hammer with a wooden block as a buffer.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5634/22333479614_d69a43bb0f_b.jpg

[DGG]

I think you're right, a bigger hammer. I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks. Just don't want to damage the shaft.

[DGG]

A big hammer and a block of wood, and tha races came out. Now to cleaning all the parts and housings.