MOD Undercoating - good or bad thing?

[rstl99]

Hi all,
I'm looking at a SIII 109 for sale locally. It was a military (MOD) vehicle, and although the frame (and chassis) looked pretty solid on my inspection today, the entire frame, outriggers, and chassis is coated with a thick undercoating which I think was done as part of preparation for the military.
I attach a couple of pics to show the undercoating and a couple of spots where the undercoating is peeling off revealing some rust underneath.
My concern about this type of undercoating is that after 30 years it's cracking in places and allowing water to seep in underneath and start rusting the metal. Luckily this LR doesn't seem to have been driven in winter salt in many years.
I can imagine it would be a royal PITA to remove this undercoating from all the steel members.
Anyone have experience with this and have any insights to offer? Is it a good or a bad thing for a LR to have this?
Thanks.

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[LaneRover]

The military undercoating can be a mixed blessing. From what I have heard it is VERY hard to get off. I left it on mine.

If you do buy it to keep rust at bay at the spots where it has cracked and peeled I would use waxoil or a similar product. I believe the underseal can hide rust that is more on the inside of the frame. But you may be able to judge that by the overall condition of the frame.

[cedryck]

My experience with Military undercoating, (I have a 2A ex-mod.) Some spots where the coating came of was pristine, I mean I could easily see really clean metal, and then other spots where it was difficult to get the undercoating off, were very rusted, it was like the undercoating kept the water in, and rusted badly. But honestly for the most part, I think it did it's job.
I did replace my frame with a new military, from our lovely hosts.

[rstl99]

Thanks guys, that's what I had figured but good to get confirmation on it. Mixed blessing indeed.
Anyway will see how things go, there were other issues with the truck and of course, the price to be negotiated.

On the topic of ex-military vehicles, I found the paint on this one kind of crudely applied, and peeling off in many places. I'm not sure what the quality of paint of military Land Rovers is, but it wasn't exactly great on this one. It did have painted square sections above the wheel wells where the PSI rating of the tires was indicated, and crude shamrocks on the front doors (not sure the meaning of that).

Cheers.

[TravelinLight]

Take a ball peen hammer to any place you may think is hiding rust to see how solid it sounds.

If the owner is not willing to let you do this, he may be hiding some rust.

[rstl99]

Yeah I crawled underneath and banged quite a few spots on the frame rails, cross members and outriggers, and did not come across any soft spots. I actually used my dad's old prospector hammer, which has a pointed end. So in spite of the spots where the undercoating is peeling off and rust is showing underneath, I figure the undercoating has largely done its job over the years. Still, would be good to regularly waxoyl the INSIDE of an undercoated frame, I would think...
Thanks.

[cedryck]

As far as the paint, most mod trucks came with bronze green from the factory, but then repainted many time probably by hand, with a brush, so not the neatest paint job. But I will have to say, hand painting with a brush applies a thick coat.

[rstl99]

Yes, the insides show the truck was orig. bronze green, and some of the peeling mod paint reveals that on the outside too. I wonder how difficult a job it would be to strip the MOD cammo paint to get back to the bronze green underneath? Anybody have experience doing that?

[deezgunz]

leave it on. there's really no point in removing it. the time you would spend stripping it is not worth the labor and frustration. i have a 109 and a NAS 88. the military frame was in much better condition. i attribute it to the military undercoating. as for stripping the paint i don't see how you can remove the paint w/o going to the aluminum. i mixed rustoleum to match the OD paint and brushed it on.

[cnfowler]

There have been lots of success using a citrus paint stripper that leaves the original paint unharmed. Do a search for citrus paint stripper. I remember reading a post about it with pictures of the end result.


Colin

[cnfowler]

Found it.

Citrus Stripper (http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?16342-Citristrip-Paint-Stripper-is-the-winner-for-my-Ex-MOD-Paint-Job&highlight=citrus+stripper)


Colin

[rstl99]

Thanks guys, sounds like a combination of citrus stripper followed by appropriate rustoleum top coat would do the job nicely (for a non-concours meant-to-be-driven-and-used LR!)
Now, assuming I can buy this truck...

[kenscs]

As per your question about Body Camo Paint. I have been in a multi-year process of removing mine and testing multiple methods. Sanding, media-blasting, airplane stripper, and finally Citrus stripper. You found my thread on it, so pretty straightforward. Still getting good results on each body panel as I work through it. I have found, I just have to assume I will not get to use the original Bronze Green paint. I had a few deep scratches into the paint here and there, and decided just to go for the full restoration of new paint. So now I Citrustrip it, sand it down a bit before I get to the bare aluminum, prime it with Epoxy paint to fill in any scratches, sand and re prime again to get smooth again. Now I am at stage where I ordered some single stage enamel Bronze Green paint and will see how well I can do spraying that on. Going to take at least a year at my pace of doing one single body panel at a time and restoring all the bolts along the way. Using a Vibrating Bowl to restore each bolt.

[rstl99]

Thanks for sharing your experience stripping camo paint LR.
About the citrus stripper, the pictures I saw showed that it works well when leaving the stripper to do its job on a panel that's laid flat (a door for ex). How would you go about it on the side panels in the back, as the stripper would flow down and not stay on vertically?
I read someone (Wakeman) saying not to strip it down to the bare aluminum because one can never get as good a base paint as was done at factory (the basic green paint). Not sure if the stripper leaves the original paint and strips off just the camo layers on top?

Sounds like you're using a careful and methodical approach to your LR, which I'm sure will look great in the end.

Cheers.

[kenscs]

I have not tried it on a vertical surface yet. Good point. It does not seem too "runny", so should be OK. I can try a panel for you this weekend and see how it goes. I was focused on getting the process correct on the doors.

I totally agree on not taking down to the bare aluminum. The factory primer (maybe etching primer) and layer of factory paint seems to make a great base to accept a new layer of primer. The areas where I could not avoid taking down to bare aluminum seem to be fine with an Eastwood Epoxy Primer. They also sell a Self-Etching one that would probably take care of the bare metal issue. Either way, I think you are fine, I just think it is less work to leave on the factory paint. I tried using Airplane Stripper the first round, which is nasty stuff, but strips down to the aluminium no problem. The issue I had was, I had to start worrying about all the self-etching primers, less buffer to sand into, etc. and the whole process too longer. Sorry for delay on answer. I was in China for a couple weeks, and internet is pretty bad access.

[kenscs]

How would you go about it on the side panels in the back, as the stripper would flow down and not stay on vertically?

OK, finally got to stripping the vertical surfaces on Front Left Fender. Worked like a charm. Pulled all the old paint off and left a nice layer of original paint I sanded down and re-primed. Here is a photo of the stripper in action...

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At this pace, should have the truck ready for full professional painting by spring.