Poor quality fuel pumps

[cedryck]

Disclaimer! First this is not a reflection on our hosts, or their choice of parts, they sell them they don't make them, just an observation of a part I purchased, I had a no name mechanical fuel pump on my shelf that I found. It was probably 6 years old. My existing AC fuel pump looked a little tired, and I had questions of the proper amount of fuel delivery, Sooo,,, I replaced the (I know it works but how well) with a NEW out of the box pump. It worked worse than the old one I took off the engine. I disconnected the fuel line and held it up and into a jar, and cycled the engine to see if there is a fuel stream, well I could have spit more liquid than the new pump moved. Needless to say I removed the shiny new, and replaced with the old, was there a bad batch of mechanical pumps that I missed? Has any else suspected poor fuel delivery from mechanical pumps? Has any replaced their mechanical with an electric with a two fuel cell military set up? And if so where did they place the pump(s)? Does it seem reasonable to assume I might be able to situate an electric after the changeover valve? Thanks in advance.

[slowmo]

I replaced with a new mechanical fuel pump this summer when I started to get vapor lock. The new one was worse so I went electric. Since then no issues.

My TR3 has a very similar mechanical fuel pump, also latched to the block and run off the cam shaft, and it hasn't skipped a beat. I have no conclusion to all that...just glad the electric fuel pump has seemed to work much better than the mechanical on the Series.

[cedryck]

What were the symptoms of your vapor lock issue? Did the truck stall? I am curious if my poor idle, (only occasionally) is due to that, thanks.

[slowmo]

Sometimes it would stumble on acceleration...badly. Fifty percent of the time it would die. The other times by pumping the accelerator pedal furiously, I could keep it running (not sure that pumping the pedal furiously had any effect but that's what I did).

Other times after the truck was warmed up and I turned off the engine to say run a short errand, it would start, run fine, for about 30 seconds and die (about the time it took the carb bowl to be cleared). I would disconnect the fuel line at the carb and pump the fuel pump lever and almost no gas would come out. I tried priming the pump by pouring gas into the disconnected fuel line until it was full (holding it up a bit). And then pumped very slowly. No effect. Then I would pump until my arm was a blur to disinterested observers, and still nothing. I repeated this a number of times and then suddenly, it would start pumping fuel and off I could go.

I tired of this, eventually, and installed the electric fuel pump. That problem was solved, which allowed me to go back to the punch list of 153 other items that were sub-optimal or indeed not functioning at all. I am on item 151 now, one year into ownership -- see new thread :(

[cedryck]

So you say installing the electric pump solved the problem, interesting. I am wondering if Venting the system somehow, would eliminate vapor lock. I sincerely have a hard time thinking that a british fuel system can vapor lock, but anything is possible.
My truck engine would just run poor, and die. Stall, or run poor. I am thinking I am still chasing the ghost.
I did order upon suggestion, a Facet brand electric pump, 2.5 - 4 psi.

[Contractor]

I bought 2 new fuel pumps from our host and neither one of them would produce enough fuel pressure to keep the old Rover running. I think they had to of gotten a bad batch of pumps at some point in time.

I ended up finding a NOS AC pump from someone else and the problem was solved.

Not a knock on our hosts as I buy 90% of my stuff from them, but am simply agreeing that some of the fuel pumps are not working correctly.


Put a gauge on it and check your fuel pressure……..that's the only way to tell. I installed a T and ran a line into the truck so I could drive it and watch the pressure with a gauge on it.

[bugeye88]

Cedrick,

You bet these trucks can and do vapor lock. Many reasons for this such as changing carbs or manifolds, missing pieces between carb and manifold, on and on. I found a facet electric pump (as you mention) after the mechanical pump with an on off switch under the dash, allowed me to both prime the carb after sitting for some time, and stopped stalling due to vapor lock. I usually switch off the electric pump after starting or when not needed for vapor lock. Insulating fuel filters in the engine bay and exposed metal fuel lines in the bay also help prevent vapor lock, which is only a hot weather concern. This crap methanol fuel is a big cause of all these troubles as it has a much lower boil point, and was not planned on the the ole Brit designers of the "British fuel system".
Cheers,
Rob
Bugeye88

[slowmo]

I bought 2 new fuel pumps from our host and neither one of them would produce enough fuel pressure to keep the old Rover running. I think they had to of gotten a bad batch of pumps at some point in time...

Couldn't agree more. Somehow these mechanical pumps now on the market are VERY temperature sensitive and prone to vapor locking. And yes,l the ethanol may play a role, but my problems in the summer was when the fuel supposedly had no ethanol.

[cedryck]

So this is still interesting to me as I drove this truck over the weekend, and in the same spot on my trip, engine dies. Starts immediatlely and runs fine till the next time. It seems like to avoid vapor lock the system needs a vent, but is not the tank vented enough at the cap? I think it is a combination of these awful mechanical pumps, and lock.

[slowmo]

When it is dying or has died, open the cap. If you hear a whoosh, you have a vacuum building up.

[bugeye88]

Get a good gas cap if needed, put an electric pump after the mechanical one with switch in the cabin, use ethanol treatment every fill up. If this doesn't do it call an exorcist!

Rob
Bugeye88

[cedryck]

What about ditching the mechanical altogether? Have folks done that?

[slowmo]

Absolutely. I have left it disconnected and hanging on the side of the block until it warms up a bit. I will then fabricate a plate and abandon the dang thing altogether. Putting on an electric fuel pump was the end of those particular issues...though I have others...not all related to Series Rovers. :)

[cedryck]

Thanks Slo mo, and Bugeye 88. I will when time permits, remove the mechanical, fabricate a close off plate, and install the electric pump after the two tank switch over vavle. But just in case the ghost rears it's ugly British head, Bugeye do you know of any good exorcists in the New England area?

[SafeAirOne]

But just in case the ghost rears it's ugly British head, Bugeye do you know of any good exorcists in the New England area?

The Jeep dealer? ;)

[slowmo]

Ha. I just remembered an inspiring fuel pump story. I bought the new mechanical fuel pump last summer hoping it would relieve the vapor lock problems I was having.

After a day or so I had the same problem...truck dead. I noticed fuel was leaking at the pump which was a hint. Background info: I was coming back from lunch in my office type clothes. I couldn't see the source of the leak from the top so I took off my shirt and shimmied underneath. I could see it was leaking between the sediment bowl and the pump, so I tightened the bowl clamp...to no avail. Fiddle-dee-dee.

I removed the pump (now I was adorned with black arms and face having had to work under the greasy beast). The rubber seal between the bowl and pump had swelled to about twice its' normal size (great selection of gasket material my little Pakistani friends) and of course it no longer offered any way of creating a seal. I dug around in a nearby trash can, found some cardboard, made a new gasket, reinstalled the pump and was back to work. (Fortunately no one called the police since a shirtless, grease covered, apparently homeless dude was combing through trash cans.)

Back at the office I couldn't put my shirt on because I was covered in blackness. So in I trudged, shirtless with my shirt in my teeth, straight to the rest room in an attempt to cleanup (I had appointments so going home was not an option). Being the owner of the company I'm sure I provided the employees with another story of crazed behavior to discuss over the dinner table with their loved ones.

So thank you Pakistani Guy. Thank you indeed.

[offshoretitan]

So this is still interesting to me as I drove this truck over the weekend, and in the same spot on my trip, engine dies. Starts immediatlely and runs fine till the next time. It seems like to avoid vapor lock the system needs a vent, but is not the tank vented enough at the cap? I think it is a combination of these awful mechanical pumps, and lock.

I've had experience where the diaphram in the mechanical pump was weak and when run for a period of 20+ minutes it would lose its ability to actually stroke firmly enough to pump the required amount of fuel. After a period of rest / cool down it would again power the vehicle for 20+ minutes. It was very frustrating! A new mechanical pump cured the problem.

[cedryck]

Thanks all for the feed back on the vapor lock issue's with mechanical pumps. Thought my 88 was possessed and I am glad, (not) to hear that others have suffered a headache with this annoying issue. SloMo that is an hysterical story you tell, thanks.
The strange this is I never had this issue for a bout 6000 miles of driving, just started about 2 months ago.

[leafsprung]

Use a genuine pump either NOS or rebuild a genuine pump. I put lots of miles on series rovers in all conditions and have gone through every iteration of electric and mechanical pump.

[rejeep]

I have also found the quality of aftermarket pumps to be rather shoddy..
I am suspect that my current aftermarket unit is leaking back into the engine contaminating my oil...

snagged a NOS one to swap out this spring when the rover comes out of hibernation.

[64Blue]

Is there a good source for a rebuild kit from original manufacturer? I have an original pump installed that's leaks and a couple used spares in unknown condition... Would be great to get a few rebuild kits, but I can't seem to find them.... Any suggestions? Host and others don't seem to have them.....

[64Blue]

Moving this back up..... Anyone?


Is there a good source for a rebuild kit from original manufacturer? I have an original pump installed that's leaks and a couple used spares in unknown condition... Would be great to get a few rebuild kits, but I can't seem to find them.... Any suggestions? Host and others don't seem to have them.....

[cedryck]

I would also like to know where a reliable, quality rebuild kit is ready for purchase.

[lumpydog]

Try googling Part #8G2039 or Part #AEU2760

Be warned that most genuine kits have the spring retainer cup, on the diaphragm, on the wrong side. The company that makes (made) them for Land Rover is located in Turkey and apparently couldn't be burdened with fixing this so people have just lived with it (they work fine with the retainer cup on the wrong side and the spring stays in place).

[rickv100]

Then and now automotive carries rebuild kits as an AC style pump

[64Blue]

Then and now automotive carries rebuild kits as an AC style pump
rickv100 - can you please clarify.... more details please! what's automotive.....?

thanks!!

[SafeAirOne]

rickv100 - can you please clarify.... more details please! what's automotive.....?

thanks!!

Google "then and now automotive". You can't miss it.

[offshoretitan]

Here's their website:

http://then-now-auto.com/?s=AC&post_type=product

[leafsprung]

If rovers north does not have original kits I have both genuine land rover and AC kits and pumps new old stock

-Ike

[Les Parker]

Be careful with some of those kits, the diaphragms have been known to be porous and not the best of qualities:sly:.

[64Blue]

Just ordered From a UK company. Britcars. We'll see how this goes....

[64Blue]

If rovers north does not have original kits I have both genuine land rover and AC kits and pumps new old stock

-Ike

Ike. Thanks for the offer! I had ordered before I saw this note from you. This said, if the offer still stands, please PM me and we can discuss. Thanks.