Series 2A Santana ??

[jackxter]

Thoughts?
Does anyone here have one? Are parts tough? Should I hold out?
It's in another state - restored, looks great - priced under $20K
What to do?

[Contractor]

Personally, I'd hold out for a Land Rover. In my opinion a Santana is not a Land Rover and it will never have the value an original IIA does.

To each his own though.......it's a decision only you can make.

[lumpydog]

I'd agree with contractor. They're a different animal in a lot of ways and parts may be an issue as well - although, there is a lot of overlap.

There are usually plenty of good Land Rovers for sale in your area - keep on Craig's list (and search your surrounding areas on Craig's list. as mentioned, eBay is a poor place to buy (mostly flippers - sellers that care about their truck sell elsewhere) - try other online classic car sites that specialize in selling classic cars. This is the time of year to be looking! Hold out for the right one - you only get to buy once.

[Star27buck]

Try Hemmings Motor News as well.

[jackxter]

I'd agree with contractor. They're a different animal in a lot of ways and parts may be an issue as well - although, there is a lot of overlap.

There are usually plenty of good Land Rovers for sale in your area - keep on Craig's list (and search your surrounding areas on Craig's list. as mentioned, eBay is a poor place to buy (mostly flippers - sellers that care about their truck sell elsewhere) - try other online classic car sites that specialize in selling classic cars. This is the time of year to be looking! Hold out for the right one - you only get to buy once.

OK, so if you had a choice between a LR that needs a lot of work and a Santana that is fully restored...both same year and both very close in price, what would you choose? (I would appreciate responses from all)

[stomper]

I haven't been in the buying market for a while, and I know values have jumped, but "under 20k" is a lot to be asking for any series land rover. Even a restored one, I would have some reservations.... Best make sure it is an honest example, and I would expect it to not be a Santana for that kind of coin.

[lumpydog]

OK, so if you had a choice between a LR that needs a lot of work and a Santana that is fully restored...both same year and both very close in price, what would you choose? (I would appreciate responses from all)

It depends on what's going to make you happy and living with a decision you won't regret. Only you can know/answer that.

Santana: Would you be totally satisfied with it for what it is and enjoy driving it? - OR - would you feel like you have to explain/qualify "it's a Santana" all the time? - OR - would you always think in the back of your mind it's a Santana and wish it was a traditional Land Rover?

Land Rover: Do you have the Skills? Patience? to restore it? What will it cost? Can you afford that and the necessary time? Or, would it be parked all the time because you can't keep it running, or are out of money?

Personally, I'd get the Land Rover 10 out of 10 times. Having the satisfaction of maintaining/restoring the truck yourself is part of the experience in my opinion. I get almost as much enjoyment working on the truck as I do driving it.

Look at it this way - you buy the right truck, it's yours for a lifetime to enjoy. You buy the wrong one and it will be a short affair and a disappointment. Take your time.

For the money you're talking about - this truck is now on Craig's list (http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?16590-1972-Land-Rover-Series-III-88A-for-sale) for $19K OBO. Gotta be better than the ones you're looking at.

[cnfowler]

It depends on what's going to make you happy and living with a decision you won't regret. Only you can know/answer that.

Santana: Would you be totally satisfied with it for what it is and enjoy driving it? - OR - would you feel like you have to explain/qualify "it's a Santana" all the time? - OR - would you always think in the back of your mind it's a Santana and wish it was a traditional Land Rover?

Land Rover: Do you have the Skills? Patience? to restore it? What will it cost? Can you afford that and the necessary time? Or, would it be parked all the time because you can't keep it running, or are out of money?

Personally, I'd get the Land Rover 10 out of 10 times. Having the satisfaction of maintaining/restoring the truck yourself is part of the experience in my opinion. I get almost as much enjoyment working on the truck as I do driving it.

Look at it this way - you buy the right truck, it's yours for a lifetime to enjoy. You buy the wrong one and it will be a short affair and a disappointment. Take your time.

For the money you're talking about - this truck is now on Craig's list (http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?16590-1972-Land-Rover-Series-III-88A-for-sale) for $19K OBO. Gotta be better than the ones you're looking at.

The Series III linked is a beautiful example. The dash is cracked, but the rest looks amazing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Santana make improvements over Land Rover's parts? Galvanized chassis, synchronized transmissions, better motors, etc?

To the OP, I haven't been in the Series game long enough to be qualified to give proper advise, however, I've bought a lot of vehicles over the years. You need to decide what you're wanting out of the vehicle. Investment vehicle? A vehicle that you'll keep for a few years and sell on? A vehicle you'll have 'forever'? Do you care what other people think about the vehicle (I personally wouldn't care because it is still a Land Rover)?


Colin

[80sailor]

OK, so if you had a choice between a LR that needs a lot of work and a Santana that is fully restored...both same year and both very close in price, what would you choose? (I would appreciate responses from all)

If the LR needs a lot of work it better be WAY under $20k. I've purchased two Series 3 88's in the past two years. Sold one of them. Point being I've been in the market recently. A runner than needs work should be in the $5-10k range. Up from there you should be getting good mechanicals, little rust and mostly cosmetic issues or the onesy-twosy issues. Get up towards $20k and you're going to have a very well sorted LR with little to no issues (for a Landy).

If it's a LR you want, I think you won't be satisfied with the Santana asterisk attached.

Btw, that red one that was linked above looks very nice and for decent money.

Just my .02

[slowmo]

Agreed on the starting cost. I bought mine for $5700. I likely have spent another $3000 and lots of time (which I enjoy so that is free). That said Homer is a daily driver and not nearly as spiffy as the one Lumpy linked from Craig's. Of course last weekend I had to pull the head because of a blown valve...so it's a gift that keeps on giving (or taking depending on how you look at it).

I also think it is a huge mistake to believe that if you bought a perfectly restored one that it will be like new and require nothing. These are old trucks based on an even older technology...they will break...often.

[lumpydog]

These are old trucks based on an even older technology...they will break...often.

Yep. No matter what you pay. Own and maintain - love it, embrace it.

[jackxter]

It depends on what's going to make you happy and living with a decision you won't regret. Only you can know/answer that.

Santana: Would you be totally satisfied with it for what it is and enjoy driving it? - OR - would you feel like you have to explain/qualify "it's a Santana" all the time? - OR - would you always think in the back of your mind it's a Santana and wish it was a traditional Land Rover?

Land Rover: Do you have the Skills? Patience? to restore it? What will it cost? Can you afford that and the necessary time? Or, would it be parked all the time because you can't keep it running, or are out of money?

Personally, I'd get the Land Rover 10 out of 10 times. Having the satisfaction of maintaining/restoring the truck yourself is part of the experience in my opinion. I get almost as much enjoyment working on the truck as I do driving it.

Look at it this way - you buy the right truck, it's yours for a lifetime to enjoy. You buy the wrong one and it will be a short affair and a disappointment. Take your time.

For the money you're talking about - this truck is now on Craig's list (http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?16590-1972-Land-Rover-Series-III-88A-for-sale) for $19K OBO. Gotta be better than the ones you're looking at.


Yes, I have been speaking to the seller of this one...it's a strong contender for me.
When I was younger, I never (or rarely) allowed anyone to work on my vehicles. As newer cars became more complicated (electronics, computers, injection), I have been leasing and getting a new one every 3 years.
This is one of the reasons that I'd like to get back to a basics vehicle that I can work on from time to time. Don't get me wrong, I would rather be driving this thing to the beach than wrenching.
I don't care much about the Santana explanation - up until a short while ago when I joined this wonderful site, I would have never known the difference myself. I think the story may be fun to tell.
My biggest concern is not being able to get parts or find someone that knows what they are doing in the event I can't fix it. I haven't looked into it that deep yet.
http://youtu.be/pPWN7m-c11Q
This is the Santana...take a peek. It's very far away from me, so it's not likely going to happen without a lot of effort.

[80sailor]

I also think it is a huge mistake to believe that if you bought a perfectly restored one that it will be like new and require nothing. These are old trucks based on an even older technology...they will break...often.

This.

My current LR had a frame off resto done by Land Rover Center in the UK roughly 7 or 8 years ago. To look at it, you'd think it was perfect (ish). Seriously, it's on of the best sorted LR's I've come across. That said, there's always something to fix/do/replace. But I love it for those reasons.
I didn't want to go through a resto or drive a project. But I DID want something that could give me some quality "tinker" time.

I tell friends it's like a boat that way. You can always find something that needs doing.

[jackxter]

This.

My current LR had a frame off resto done by Land Rover Center in the UK roughly 7 or 8 years ago. To look at it, you'd think it was perfect (ish). Seriously, it's on of the best sorted LR's I've come across. That said, there's always something to fix/do/replace. But I love it for those reasons.
I didn't want to go through a resto or drive a project. But I DID want something that could give me some quality "tinker" time.

I tell friends it's like a boat that way. You can always find something that needs doing.

I completely understand. For the last 30 yrs I have lived in apartments and have leased cars that never required me to do any work. I just purchased a summer property that requires hands on work so it's only natural that I get a second car that requires work :)

[cnfowler]

I've seen that video somewhere before. I remember the driving part at the end. Damn good looking Rover. It appears to be in great shape, and it's not a Series III, which is awesome. The metal dashes are the ones to have. I have to say, if that's your first Land Rover, you could be doing much, much worse. Great color, too.


Colin

[o2batsea]

Frankly, unless you have a contact in Spain or some South American country where there is a possibility of getting parts from a dealership, I would stay away. There is a very real possibility that you could be broken down for MONTHS waiting for some part to come from somewhere in Spain. At least with Rovers there is a fairly good parts supply here in the USA even if it is an older one.
Santanas certainly aren't bad vehicles, but it would be like buying a SEAT Ibiza from 1985 and bringing it here to the USA and thinking it won't be a problem to maintain.
It is NOT A LAND ROVER even tho it looks like one a lot.

[REDrum]

The word Santana is less scary to me than the word Restored.

I have a few buddies in Costa Rica who own Santanas, spanish made with square top rear door trucks; both 88 and 109. While certainly not a BL product, they are a very good product; some argue an improvement/refinement of the UK version. I've explored them a bit but have not bought one, yet....

My buddies who own them in CR have found 90% compatability of Santana with UK or CR build series truck parts. Body panels/hardward, brakes, gearboxes, seem to be the most trouble for non compatibility, (however thats second hand info from freinds). But keep in mind thats due to non availability of parts for Santana in CR, In the US parts availability from EU will no doubt be better than CR; but not w/o lead time.

All that said, I would not dismiss the Santana, because its a Santana. I would be much more skeptical of the trucks level of "Restored", who did it, and with what parts. Would highly recommend you hire someone who knows Series trucks to inspect it. If it is well sorted, truly restored, and you can look past the Santana badge, it could be a good find.

[jackxter]

The word Santana is less scary to me than the word Restored.

I have a few buddies in Costa Rica who own Santanas, spanish made with square top rear door trucks; both 88 and 109. While certainly not a BL product, they are a very good product; some argue an improvement/refinement of the UK version. I've explored them a bit but have not bought one, yet....

My buddies who own them in CR have found 90% compatability of Santana with UK or CR build series truck parts. Body panels/hardward, brakes, gearboxes, seem to be the most trouble for non compatibility, (however thats second hand info from freinds). But keep in mind thats due to non availability of parts for Santana in CR, In the US parts availability from EU will no doubt be better than CR; but not w/o lead time.

All that said, I would not dismiss the Santana, because its a Santana. I would be much more skeptical of the trucks level of "Restored", who did it, and with what parts. Would highly recommend you hire someone who knows Series trucks to inspect it. If it is well sorted, truly restored, and you can look past the Santana badge, it could be a good find.

Thanks - one downside is that it was on eBay and located far away. The second downside is that the seller failed to reply to a few basic questions. I'd be willing to hop on a plane and eyeball it but since there was no reply, I'll take it as a sign. The parts are the 3rd downside...so I'll concentrate on a LR.

[patrick68]

There is a 1969 Series IIA 88 for sale on Craiglist in Boston right now .... This is just 4 hours drive from NYC.

[cnfowler]

I'm thinking this is the one Patrick is speaking of.
https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/cto/5561513228.html


Colin

[patrick68]

Yes , this is the one .



I'm thinking this is the one Patrick is speaking of.
https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/cto/5561513228.html


Colin

[REDrum]

Thanks - one downside is that it was on eBay and located far away. The second downside is that the seller failed to reply to a few basic questions. I'd be willing to hop on a plane and eyeball it but since there was no reply, I'll take it as a sign. The parts are the 3rd downside...so I'll concentrate on a LR.

Agreed. Ya gotta get up close and personal with it.


I'm thinking this is the one Patrick is speaking of.
https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/cto/5561513228.html.

That, if in your budget, could be a good find. Based on pictures it epitomizes a Series truck. Well worth having a 3rd party investigate for you. I can refer you to a couple people in area Boston area if you like.

[jackxter]

Thanks - I appreciate it. Waiting for some more pics of this one...and trying to see one in Maine. Not easy making time. The one that got me hooked was 1.5 hours away so I jumped out of the office and ran to see it. Unfortunately, the ad wasn't very truthful. So, I really need to see what I'm getting into. Perhaps when I have a better idea of when I can make it out, I'd like another set of eyes with me.

[REDrum]

Unfortunately, the ad wasn't very truthful

LOL, come shop for Landy's in central america some time....

11580

[jackxter]

LOL, come shop for Landy's in central america some time....

11580

Unfortunately, this isn't too far off as what was described as "restored". The photos were actually good. I blame myself for not asking the right questions prior to going to see it. At least I knew enough to look in the right places.

[ValenciaCV]

Frankly, unless you have a contact in Spain or some South American country where there is a possibility of getting parts from a dealership, I would stay away. There is a very real possibility that you could be broken down for MONTHS waiting for some part to come from somewhere in Spain. At least with Rovers there is a fairly good parts supply here in the USA even if it is an older one.
Santanas certainly aren't bad vehicles, but it would be like buying a SEAT Ibiza from 1985 and bringing it here to the USA and thinking it won't be a problem to maintain.
It is NOT A LAND ROVER even tho it looks like one a lot.

With due respect, this is categorically untrue. I honestly have no idea where this started, but I suspect it stems from some very late (1988-1990) Santanas, long after the relationship with Solihull ended. For Series III and earlier vehicles, the idea that parts are unavailable, or that the vehicles themselves "aren't Land Rovers" is totally absurd.

I live in Spain and I buy, restore and sell Land Rover Santanas here all the time. For anything 1983 and earlier, 99% of what I need I buy from Paddock Spares, John Craddock Limited, etc. If the vehicles are in the USA, we buy from Rovers North. We have never had a problem with anything. Engine parts, brake parts, master cylinders, belts and hoses, clutches, springs, ball joints, electricals, switchgear, filters, glow plugs, prop shafts... EVERYTHING. Even accessories like roof racks and mud flaps. From seat upholstery to valves, and from main bearings to radiators, you just buy the part you need for your Land Rover and you're fine.

I stress again, I am not speculating here. I do this all day, every day. I am speaking from years of personal experience, restoring perhaps two dozen Series IIA and Series III Land Rover Santanas. But this prejudice is so widespread that I don't even tell the supplier I am working on a Santana, because I am tried of listening to them tell me how nothing will fit. I just say it's a Solihull truck and everything works perfectly.

Now, are there a FEW exceptions? Yes. Santana built a model in the late 1970's called the "Especial," for example, which had different tail lamps. But they are readily available online. Some 1983's had slightly different seat frames, so if you happen to have a 1983 Land Rover Santana and need a seat frame (which, let's face it, is rare) you just buy a Solihull part and drill four new holes to replace it. But the guts and even most of the details of the truck? All the same. And if you're talking about a Series IIA, as in this particular case? It is identical except for a couple badges.

Which makes sense if you stop and think about it, because they were built under license from Solihull, with tooling, stamping equipment and everything from England. Santana didn't reinvent the wheel and build different trucks. They had no motivation to do so, and neither did Solihull, who had licensed the whole operation in the first place. For everything built in 1983 and earlier, these were not badged as Santanas. They were badged as Land Rover Santanas. And with good reason.

Bill and I are in the very early stages of working on an article with Rovers Magazine about the history of Santana, which will hopefully put some of these issues to rest once and for all. But probably not, because when people get something in their heads it's sometimes very difficult to get it out again, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

But if anyone has any questions, I'm always happy to answer them.

- Paul
paulmisencik@gmail.com

[o2batsea]

The number of pre-83 "Land Rover Santanas" in the USA is super super small. I would venture to say fewer than a hundred. Probably even way less than that. I have seen ONE here in my life and it's owned by my friend Freddy. It has a LOT of differences from a Land Rover 2A. He brought it here from Honduras or someplace like that about 5 years ago. Customs guy stepped on the sun sheet and bent the crap out of it. Idiots. I digress.
The later Santanas are surely not Land Rovers. They have steel bodies, leaf suspensions, different engines, blah blah blah....and certainly do not carry the Land Rover mystique.
Good luck importing and selling these. I'm sure you'll get a lot more traffic if you call them Land Rover Santanas than just plain old Santana. There are a couple of these floating around the DC area, and they are not selling.