Impending Frame Swap

[printjunky]

As soon as a rewards card gets here, I'm ordering a frame for my SIII 88" Daily driver whose frame is in BAD shape. So bad that I'm driving my GF's scooter to work 20mi RT because of how scared I am to drive it. I fishplated a complete clean all-the-way-through crack near the front shackle of driver's side rear about a month ago and that's holding nicely, but the corrosion near pass. side rear shackle of the front spring is profound, as well as on the main x-member. I thought I had a year or so left, but no way. Bad bad bad.

Anyway, I can only afford the frame and maybe another $1K spend. I'll be re-doing all of the brake lines in cunifer. And I'll be checking and resealing the transmission, and likely regasket the lower half of the motor to get leaks back under control. And I have a hidden little coolant leak somewhere, that if I can find, I'll try to tackle (if it's a head gasket I can do that later). Might reseal the axles/balls (not enough cash for new balls), but those can be done afterwards pretty easily, if I need it back together.

Assuming a 2 week delivery, and I order this week, meaning I get the frame sometime by July 22, I can probably have it off the road for as long as until August 19. I'm on vacation for two weeks after that, and I'd rather not come back from that having no daily driver (this is my only four wheeled vehicle). An additional factor, is that I will be working outside - shadetree, indeed. I may spring for some kind of cover, for mildly inclement weather, but no plan for that yet. But even with all those factors, I still think that should be a reasonable of time. I can work on it, probably a minimum of 3 hours on 3 weeknights per week, and will conservatively average 14 or more hours on the weekends. Which is a little under 100 hours total. Assuming the main task - just the frame swap - is about 40 hours, that should leave time for extras (brake lines, tranny) and some other things to crop up. Thoughts?

So questions:

Any tips or tricks on the general frame swap itself?

Any things that are MUST DOs when doing a frame swap, that are significantly aided by that process? (I have 2 year old rear parabolics and brand new fronts waiting to go on)

Any specific tips for brakeline routing? Improvements to original routing (I'm the opposite of a purist).

Any tips on assessing the condition of the transmission?

I'd like to use as much SS hardware as possible. Anyone have a list of likely sizes and quantities, or a sense of what sizes predominate?

Are there any unknown unknowns that you guys know of?

[o2batsea]

Any tips or tricks on the general frame swap itself?
It takes a lot longer than you think, and you will hit snags that grind progress to a halt.


Any things that are MUST DOs when doing a frame swap, that are significantly aided by that process? (I have 2 year old rear parabolics and brand new fronts waiting to go on)

Chassis bushings for the shackles. Tub support channels. Fuel tank reconditioning. Chassis wiring harness.


Any specific tips for brakeline routing? Improvements to original routing (I'm the opposite of a purist).
Yes bend up test fits using cheap wire. Then use the test fits as patterns for the new brake lines.


Any tips on assessing the condition of the transmission?
look for metal in the oil when you drain it.


I'd like to use as much SS hardware as possible. Anyone have a list of likely sizes and quantities, or a sense of what sizes predominate?
You will use a ton of 1/4-28 x 3/4 and 1/4-28 x 1 bolts. Order them in bulk in 316 stainless from McMaster-Carr. Chassis bolts are also Imperial-UNF thread.


Are there any unknown unknowns that you guys know of?
Don't worry, they will find you before you find them!

[slowmo]

For me, trying to get this done with a fixed schedule and a very fixed budget screams "trouble on the horizon." I don't think $1K will cover it and I think you'll run into stuff you need to order that will extend your lead time greatly. If I were to undertake this job, I would go in with patience and an acceptance that the budget will be...cough...double...depending on what else you find. You'll want to do it right - not twice.

[Tim Smith]

I once participated in a frame over in a field for an event and we completed the frame over in about 30 hours. Maybe 48. We started Friday night and had it running Sunday morning. I'd say we had 10 men on the job with maybe three of them having completed a frame over in the past. We had a farm tractor as a fork lift and all parts on hand and ready to go.

The key is to avoid disassembling the truck too far. Skip any of the ship fitter items until after you get the truck running. Choosing now to re-seal the transmission is likely to put you over your time budget unless you are comfortable that you can get it done in a day. You are better off power washing everything so that in a year's time, you can pull the transmission and do your re-seal when you have more time to.

You can do it. Just be smart and don't choose now to address all those wish list items just because you are in there.

Here is some inspiration for you.

https://vimeo.com/101869310

That video starts well after we started the tear down but you get the idea.

[printjunky]

Tim, this is the gravest of dangers! Every six or so work hours, I'll have my SO randomly yell out the back door "STOP! Don't do it!"

[printjunky]

Thanks for the post, David. I should have been more clear. Those timeframes are not nearly fixed. Just conservative estimates, that I think will leave a good amount of wiggle room. By all assessments I've seen, 100 man hours should leave wiggle room. And the $1,000 is above and beyond the frame, and I really only have three main goals. Frame, resealing, and brake lines. I can allocate more money to the project, if need be. I'm just not planning on it at the moment.

And I should have mentioned that I have a couple of decades of pretty deep Rover (and other) mechanical experience. I'd guess I've had a hand on every single component on a Series III (this is my third, and my daily driver) at least a few times, including a couple of complete motor rebuilds, diff rebuilds, and other major work.

I was merely musing out loud about what I might overlook, forget, not forsee (while this isn't my first Rover rodeo, it is my first frame swap), to take advantage of the hive mind here, multiple brains being always better than one.

Also, I got an update today, and the frame will be here as soon as midweek, next. So applying my conservative time scale to that, puts me at a pretty safe 120 man hours.

[SafeAirOne]

For me, trying to get this done with a fixed schedule and a very fixed budget screams "trouble on the horizon." I don't think $1K will cover it and I think you'll run into stuff you need to order that will extend your lead time greatly. If I were to undertake this job, I would go in with patience and an acceptance that the budget will be...cough...double...depending on what else you find. You'll want to do it right - not twice.

Wow, That's exactly what I was thinking. Well Put.

[parrie]

Thanks for the post, David. I should have been more clear. Those timeframes are not nearly fixed. Just conservative estimates, that I think will leave a good amount of wiggle room. By all assessments I've seen, 100 man hours should leave wiggle room. And the $1,000 is above and beyond the frame, and I really only have three main goals. Frame, resealing, and brake lines. I can allocate more money to the project, if need be. I'm just not planning on it at the moment.

And I should have mentioned that I have a couple of decades of pretty deep Rover (and other) mechanical experience. I'd guess I've had a hand on every single component on a Series III (this is my third, and my daily driver) at least a few times, including a couple of complete motor rebuilds, diff rebuilds, and other major work.

I was merely musing out loud about what I might overlook, forget, not forsee (while this isn't my first Rover rodeo, it is my first frame swap), to take advantage of the hive mind here, multiple brains being always better than one.

Also, I got an update today, and the frame will be here as soon as midweek, next. So applying my conservative time scale to that, puts me at a pretty safe 120 man hours.

Assuming you have an assistant the estimated 120 hours should give you a little breathing room if you happen to hit a snag. One other item I would keep in the back of you mind is wiring. If your going this far now would be the time to refresh if needed. Good luck!

[Les Parker]

Also, presuming the springs/shox are in good shape, plus footwells etc.
Hmm, brave for taking it on. Sounds like a winter project to me.

[cedryck]

I can only add this to the plethora of good information already given, I concur that a new wiring loom from our gracious hosts can help eliminate some of the typical poor ground, and lights not working, horn not blowing, issues that older rovers with old original wiring present. The actual wiring of the truck was one of the easiest thing I have done on it, my 2 p, cheers.

[tmckeon88]

I can only add this to the plethora of good information already given, I concur that a new wiring loom from our gracious hosts can help eliminate some of the typical poor ground, and lights not working, horn not blowing, issues that older rovers with old original wiring present. The actual wiring of the truck was one of the easiest thing I have done on it, my 2 p, cheers.

Be aware some fittings need to be Grade 8 hardened steel, the yellowy looking stuff with the "8" printed on the bolt head. Stainless is fine for floors and things like that, but make sure to replace hardened fasteners with new hardened ones. Some anti seize paste will help if you ever need to get them apart again. (You'll have that silvery stuff everywhere during the process.)

Clutch and throw out bearing while you have the transmission out? It will never be easier. Stainless steel bleeder screws for clutch and brake wheel cylinders? Stainless flex hoses for the brake lines?

Good luck with your project.

Tom

[printjunky]

+1 on Grade 8 Tom. I also keep in mind propensity for galling, so rarely use SS in tapped cast, if ever and never in solid Al. Plenty of silver and copper anti-sieze in stock. Near-Future Shawn will thank Past Shawn for that being a regular practice for years now.


Probably will do clutch. I have to do the flywheel anyway (sheared off a couple of teeth a couple of years ago, so starting is sometimes clanky. I have the flywheel, and will re-ring this one as a spare.

I already have stainless flex lines all around.

And as to previous discussions about wiring, my first task when I got the Rover was to graft in a modern (mid-90s Caddy, I think) fuse box, so I can have my higher draw systems on relays, have a main system fuse, and have PLENTY of branch fuses to make circuits more discrete and safer. There are some things I'd like to switch around in that system, but nothing that's going to happen right away.

My next question, though, is does anyone know offhand about how much brake line I'll need for a full re-do on an 88" dual circuit system?