Need to find a local expert to help with my 1967 IIa

[brooklyndave]

Hi all,

I've had a lot of fun over the past year fixing up my 1967 IIa. It had been sitting on the lawn at my friends house for the past 11 years. I changed the firewall, installed a new gas tank, wiring harness, changed the brake lines and redid all the brake components as well as the clutch hydraulics, rebuilt the carb (Zenith) as well as the fuel pump, etc.

It starts and runs well. (except when I drive it on a hot day for over an hour. then it poops out. I think this is a coil issue)

However I have two things that are keeping me from really enjoying the vehicle.

The first is that the steering is very twitchy. I find myself always making corrections on the wheel. I had the toe in checked but this didn't help. I've tried adding oil to the relay box and think the rest of the components are not sloppy.

My other problem is that the clutch pedal is a bear to press down. My friend tells me he had a III transmission installed before he stopped driving the LR. I wonder about this because we have to shift really slowly between 1st and 2nd. I put in a stock master cylinder and slave for a series II. I noticed when we were installing the new components that there was a 1/4" spacer plate under the slave. I had a friend drive the car who has a 50's willies Jeep and he couldn't believe the clutch pedal resistance.

I liked fixing my LR up to this point but feel that a real expert might get me thru these last problems fastest and I could enjoy driving my LR better.

I live in Greenpoint, Brooklyn and could probably drive the car an hour or so in any direction. Does anybody have a recommendation for the right shop?

Thanks, Dave

[mongoswede]

When you say the steering is very twitchy do you mean that small inputs to the steering wheel cause the steering on the truck to change rapidly? Or do you mean the steering is sloppy such that there is a lot of movement in the steering wheel before the steering seems to change?

So ignoring the power steering piece in this diagram you can see how over linked the series steering setup is:

12011

If the steering is sloppy you could have one or many connections that are loose/worn including your steering box or steering relay. Additionally the axle could be position incorrectly on the leaf springs causing issues with the caster or perpendicularity to the front of the vehicle. You might consider installing a power steering box from a land cruiser or a scout and removing all of the linkages from the stock setup. Here is Teri-Anne's write up on the scout conversion:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/PowerSteering.htm

On the clutch pedal. You might try removing the master from the pedal housing and checking to see how smoothly and easily the pedal itself moves. If the pedal is smooth then you know its in the clutch system itself. I believe the stock Series 3 transmission has the starter on the Drivers side of the truck where a IIA and earlier the starter is on the passenger side.

[Contractor]

After you rule out component sloppiness, which it sounds like you have, check swivel preload and make sure it's right.

For your clutch, maybe it's something as simple as having the wrong return spring installed. Perhaps the PO put something there as a band aid and it's not the right spring. Just a thought......rule out the simple stuff first.

No idea no shops, but someone close to you will chime in I'm sure.

[lumpydog]

If you have looseness in the steering. As mentioned, check all linkage. Easy to have someone move the wheel and tell you they are starting movement. follow the connections and see where the input get's lost due to loose parts. Make sure the steering box is firmly anchored - it tends to loosen up. Use loc-tite or better yet, locking tabs on the bolt heads.

If everything looks snug, I'd start with this adjustment here. It goes a LONG way toward fixing loose/vague steering: https://mud4fun.com/2013/02/03/steering-box-adjustment/

[brooklyndave]

Thanks Lumpydog, Contractor and mongowede for your suggestions.

Regarding the clutch, I will try disconnecting the return spring and also the slave from the bell housing to gauge the difference in pedal pressure. Is there a visual difference between the II transmission and the III tranny? Currently the slave is positioned where a series II would be and the only thing that diverged from a II is this 1/4" thick spacer plate between the slave and the mount.
I think I read somewhere that there were some other considerations in hooking up a III tranny in an older LR.

With regard to the steering I guess I should also disconnect some components to gauge the stiffness of the steering box and steering relay. I have tried adjusting the side take up screw on the steering box and I can make the steering wheel have almost no side to side play before moving the tires. When I had the toe in checked the shop suggested that the steering box was too tight and that might be contributing to the twitchiness. After that I backed off on the adjustment but didn't find any improvement in the steering. I'd like to take the box out and rebuild it. I'v bought the gaskets and bearings. Also when its out I could check the tightness of other components. Right now I feel that there is a little movement in the bracketry of the steering box when turning the wheel when stationary. When I say the steering is twitchy its like you have to pull the wheel to one side to go straight and very soon after you have to correct in the other direction. I feel like a real expert might spot the problems fast.

Has anyone tried the TDZ power steering? I went to the website in the Netherlands and read that it doesn't really correct the funky aspects of an early LR but it does ease parking maneuvers. I have a power steering box and pump from an 80's Malibu which I've thought about but I've been told that properly set up a II can steer OK and doesn't need the power steering.
Dave

[mongoswede]

The TDZ was in the photo I posted...but that was just the first good drawing I came across for the rover steering. If I were going to convert to power steering I would ditch the entire rover setup and go with a Scout power steering box or similar. The units like the TDZ or more of a bandaid...they offer some hydraulic boost but you still have the plethora of steering linkages to deal with.

[mongoswede]

Thanks Lumpydog, Contractor and mongowede for your suggestions.

Is there a visual difference between the II transmission and the III tranny?

Yes. The clutch slave cylinder for the Series III transmission is located on the Drivers side (in a USA vehicle where the driver sits on the Left Hand side of the car) of the transmission where the clutch slave on the Series IIA transmission is located on the Passenger's side (in a USA vehicle where the passenger sits on the right hand side of the vehicle.

Here is a picture of a SIII gearbox...you can clearly see the clutch slave on the lower left of the bell housing.
12012

here is an SII transmission
12013

[cedryck]

Did you mean to say that on a series three transmission the slave is on the drivers, and on a 2a it is on the passenger?

[Les Parker]

Ah ! LHD v RHD ....

Always state when viewing from the back of a vehicle, LH is LH and RH is RH .

[superstator]

Then I just get more confused; does RHD/LHD refer to where the driver sits in the vehicle, or where the vehicle drives on the road? Should have gotten a center steer truck and saved myself the confusion. ;)

[siii8873]

to add some confusion, a SIII box can have the slave on the right hand side if bellhousing was changed

[cedryck]

Usually LHD or RHD determines where the driver is sitting in the vehicle. On which side the driver is sitting.

[mearstrae]

When dealing with ANY vehicle RH or LH is always from the driver's perspective (i.e.: looking out the front windscreen), so it makes no difference which side he's sitting on. Maybe that'll be less confusing... Until you hear the word, "Offhand".

'99 Disco II
'95 R.R.C. Lwb (Gone...)
'76 Series III Hybrid 109
'70 Rover 3500S

[brooklyndave]

Ok, thanks Mongoswede for the pics. On my LR IIa the slave is positioned as in your second picture for a series IIA transmission. (The RH side of the vehicle from the drivers seat.) The friend that I bought the LR from remembers paying a shop to install a Series III transmission and perhaps like Siii8873 points out the bell housing was changed. However we can never make a fast shift between 1st and 2nd so that would possible indicate that its still a series II. Or it could be a series III with a bad syncro. Looking at your two pictures, other than the bell housing the two gearboxes seem to look the same.

Dave


Yes. The clutch slave cylinder for the Series III transmission is located on the Drivers side of the transmission where the clutch slave on the Series IIA transmission is located on the Drivers side.

Here is a picture of a SIII gearbox...you can clearly see the clutch slave on the lower left of the bell housing.
12012

here is an SII transmission
12013

[Les Parker]

Or do you mean "offside" ! Free kick to the opposition.

[mongoswede]

Did you mean to say that on a series three transmission the slave is on the drivers, and on a 2a it is on the passenger?

Yes...call it a brain cramp typing error.