New guy and a value question

[distributorguy]

I recently joined this forum while looking for a Series project to build with my daughter. I've spent the last 13 years rebuilding Lucas distributors, hence my username. Thanks for all the great posts and info here!

Now for a more direct question:
I've recently looked at a '64 that's been parked since 1982, indoors thankfully. I'm not sure how to put a value on it. It does need a new frame, mostly due to internal rust that's thinned the metal throughout. The only perforations are in the rear near the spring hangers. One outrigger is in poor shape, as is the transmission crossmember. The leaf springs are rusted between - heavily - and damaged beyond use. This makes me concerned about rust inside the differentials and transfer case. Experience here?

The body is pretty clean. The toe boards are rusted, but the rest of the bulkhead has held up extremely well. The inner driver's door structure has rust that needs repair. Inner wing panels are rusted. A few dents and scrapes but not bad at all. Original paint and the original galvanize trim work is presentable and rust free, never painted.

The engine is junk, and I was planning on installing a Mercruiser 185 3.7L 4 cylinder set up for street driving, along with an NV4500 5 speed.

This Series II is very complete, but like I said needs a reframe and a full restoration. I plan to leave the body in patina, but update and restore the drivetrain so it could be driven daily. What is this truck worth??? It does have a Kodiak IV heater installed, but it may be part of the bargaining process. A rear barn door is also available, same color from a Series III.



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[Armordave]

IMHO you will put at least $15-20K into getting it structurally and mechanically sound (with new frame) if you do the work yourself. On the lower end of that if you just fix the frame. Add $20 for a restoration quality paint and galvy renewal (less if you do it your self or dont at take the body apart). Without the paint job you will top out in value around mid-20’s. So evaluate what you want to put into it and if it is a labor of love or a flip project. If its a labor of love value doesn’t matter. All that said, my estimate (based on the information provided) would be $5-7K.

[distributorguy]

Thanks for the reply. This will be a labor of love, as have many of my past projects. This looks like one of the first (for me) that will retain its investment value. I don't think there's any value in fixing this frame. Its apparently delaminating across the majority of its internal length. This truck either needs a new galvanized frame or it'll be parted out. IMHO its too nice to be parted out - given there's nearly an entire stripped truck that can go with it (minus frame). Priced well below your estimate, and I can have both the tailgate setup and the rear door.

[jp-]

Part out value is probably around $3000, if all the panels are pretty straight. With a good or savable frame, could be as high as $5000. A decade ago, they were going for $1000-$1500 like that. Now everyone seems to think they are priceless. And I guess to some of us they are!

You aren't going to restore and flip these things for profit unless you are a professional shop and can charge $50,000 or more when you are done. So just make sure it's something you really are in love with before pulling the trigger.

[distributorguy]

Actually I do have a professional shop, but this one is going to be built for my family and me. Its been more than 25 years since I've spent any real time traveling off road. The idea isn't to flip it. Rather its to enjoy it for a number of years, teach my daughter to drive a stick, take the dogs to the lake, etc...

I just wasn't initially sure that a reframe was going to be worth the total investment considering parts can be difficult to source if Rovers North doesn't stock them. I'll make the body repair panels like the toe boards, door frame repair pieces, ribs under the box, etc... likely from stainless so I don't have to do it over in 20 years. The frame is not savable. I'm pretty sure overall metal thickness is around half of what it started at - rotten inside and out but "looks good" at a glance.

Truth be told, I enjoy building cars and trucks more than owning and driving them. An old MGB was really the only exception until I recently sold it and now have "spare" funds to get this project rolling.
My other ongoing project is a Datsun pickup we land speed race at Bonneville. That got the frame-off treatment 4 years ago. Hopefully we can hit the record this year and I'll have more time to enjoy building a Rover.

[jp-]

Actually I do have a professional shop, but this one is going to be built for my family and me. Its been more than 25 years since I've spent any real time traveling off road. The idea isn't to flip it. Rather its to enjoy it for a number of years, teach my daughter to drive a stick, take the dogs to the lake, etc...

I just wasn't initially sure that a reframe was going to be worth the total investment considering parts can be difficult to source if Rovers North doesn't stock them. I'll make the body repair panels like the toe boards, door frame repair pieces, ribs under the box, etc... likely from stainless so I don't have to do it over in 20 years. The frame is not savable. I'm pretty sure overall metal thickness is around half of what it started at - rotten inside and out but "looks good" at a glance.

Truth be told, I enjoy building cars and trucks more than owning and driving them. An old MGB was really the only exception until I recently sold it and now have "spare" funds to get this project rolling.
My other ongoing project is a Datsun pickup we land speed race at Bonneville. That got the frame-off treatment 4 years ago. Hopefully we can hit the record this year and I'll have more time to enjoy building a Rover.

Man, sounds like you are into some neat stuff! I have a 74 MGBGT, but it got sidelined for my 109 project. But I'll pick it back up, hopefully next year. It's getting a Toyota Supra engine too!

Don't use stainless on the door frames or any supports, or even for bolts. Stainless is higher on the galvanic scale than aluminum so all you'll end up doing is corroding your aluminum away, and that will not be good at all. The best approach for supports and frames is to remake them out of mild steel and then galvanize them. If Rover had galved all the door and bonnet frames they would still be in immaculate condition.

[distributorguy]

I'm pretty sure I follow you on Insta?

My understanding is that stainless and aluminum aren't a problem if I paint the stainless. Aluminum rivets in stainless is a non-issue, and insulated contact between the two metals is also a non-issue. I don't really want to try to weld to galvanized. Zinc is a bugger on the lungs. I suppose I could buy the box supports. Toe boards? Stainless. Or diamond plate aluminum? Hmmm... I don't buy stainless bolts except to mount intake manifolds and carbs since they don't transfer heat well.

If I could sell the twincam 1275/1380 Midget EFI motor I have listed on Ebay I'd have my new frame and suspension paid for!!!

[jp-]

I'm pretty sure I follow you on Insta?

My understanding is that stainless and aluminum aren't a problem if I paint the stainless. Aluminum rivets in stainless is a non-issue, and insulated contact between the two metals is also a non-issue. I don't really want to try to weld to galvanized. Zinc is a bugger on the lungs. I suppose I could buy the box supports. Toe boards? Stainless. Or diamond plate aluminum? Hmmm... I don't buy stainless bolts except to mount intake manifolds and carbs since they don't transfer heat well.

If I could sell the twincam 1275/1380 Midget EFI motor I have listed on Ebay I'd have my new frame and suspension paid for!!!

That would be an impossibility, since I am not on instagram!;)

That's true, if you can fully shield the metals from contact it's not a problem, but paint wears off. Oh, and if there is no moisture present (dry climate) you also won't have a problem.

I don't encourage welding on zinc either, but the door frames and bonnet frame are not welded in, so wouldn't require welding post galvanizing.

[cedryck]

If you are going to drive and enjoy this truck,consider a new frame, pain in the &^% to fix, and then you always find another area that needs welding. Just buy and have delivered new frame, youll thank yourself. Then you can spend the right amount of time, on electrics, hydrolics, body, and drive train. Just my humble opinion, Ive been here. cheers.

[distributorguy]

Thanks Cedryck - that's the plan! New frame, springs and shocks, motor, trans, and rewire. Brakes are easy but I'll likely upgrade - eventually. Depends on how many new parts this thing needs after sitting for so many years. The body really is in exceptional condition considering how long its been sitting. One day's body work will take care of all the rust repair, especially when the body is off and being moved to the new frame. I don't "need" the vehicle, so it can sit as long as necessary. 3 year plan to have it finished, 1 year plan to make it drivable so i can at least move it around under its own power.

JP - must be another guy doing a wild MGB GT conversion then? Come to think of it, the other one was AWD.
I don't weld on zinc. I'd blast the surrounding area before welding, then rattle can zinc repair areas when its cooled. I know - its not as good as hot dip, but better than most cheap epoxy primers and it looks the part. My understanding is that the door frame comes in sections not whole so welding is in order? Rovers are new to me. Too many years working on MGs.

[cedryck]

[QUOTE=distributorguy;110283]Thanks Cedryck - that's the plan! New frame, springs and shocks, motor, trans, and rewire. Brakes are easy but I'll likely upgrade - eventually. Depends on how many new parts this thing needs after sitting for so many years. The body really is in exceptional condition considering how long its been sitting. One day's body work will take care of all the rust repair, especially when the body is off and being moved to the new frame. I don't "need" the vehicle, so it can sit as long as necessary. 3 year plan to have it finished, 1 year plan to make it drivable so i can at least move it around under its own power.

Hi, My experience has been, (purchasing a car that sat, unused for many years) is that ALL the plumbing, brakes, masters, clutch, all connecting tubes needed replacing. Not a bad thing to do, piece of mind. Electrics, mice, and time will degrade a wiring loom. Replace the whole loom. Shrink wrap the fittings,
Drive train. Inspect all drive train components replacing the needed bearings, seals, and liquids. Corrosion and the elements are the bad influence with cars that sit.
If you are convinced that compression is sound in your engine, have a good mechanic, upgrade to a better water pump, carb, head if needed, and any seals needed. Consult the green bible for all needed tolerances and quantities, and when you are ready to drive, put a horshoe on the front grill (just kidding) enjoy your work. Cheers.

[distributorguy]

When starting with a vehicle like this, I generally start by draining all fluids, pulling diff covers (or 3rd members), rebuilding driveshafts and hydraulics, and make an overall analysis of what's what. This is going to be a frame off, which means likely every part will be restored to new or better when reinstalled with the exception of trying to keep the body's exterior patina intact. I'd be willing to bet the axle and diff bearings are rusty. The transfer case will get rebuilt. Its getting an engine and trans swap. Everything else is likely going to be replaced, resurfaced, or restored. This will be my 4th "frame-off", but first on a Rover. This is by far the simplest vehicle I've ever owned, maybe a tie with the MGB but I made that one more complicated.

This particular vehicle looked as though a racoon lived in it for a while? No damage - just filthy.

PS. I do have a spare horse shoe that the tiller dug up in the pasture out back...:thumb-up:

[VTBKRDS]

I recently joined this forum while looking for a Series project to build with my daughter. I've spent the last 13 years rebuilding Lucas distributors, hence my username. Thanks for all the great posts and info here!

Now for a more direct question:
I've recently looked at a '64 that's been parked since 1982, indoors thankfully. I'm not sure how to put a value on it. It does need a new frame, mostly due to internal rust that's thinned the metal throughout. The only perforations are in the rear near the spring hangers. One outrigger is in poor shape, as is the transmission crossmember. The leaf springs are rusted between - heavily - and damaged beyond use. This makes me concerned about rust inside the differentials and transfer case. Experience here?

The body is pretty clean. The toe boards are rusted, but the rest of the bulkhead has held up extremely well. The inner driver's door structure has rust that needs repair. Inner wing panels are rusted. A few dents and scrapes but not bad at all. Original paint and the original galvanize trim work is presentable and rust free, never painted.

The engine is junk, and I was planning on installing a Mercruiser 185 3.7L 4 cylinder set up for street driving, along with an NV4500 5 speed.

This Series II is very complete, but like I said needs a reframe and a full restoration. I plan to leave the body in patina, but update and restore the drivetrain so it could be driven daily. What is this truck worth??? It does have a Kodiak IV heater installed, but it may be part of the bargaining process. A rear barn door is also available, same color from a Series III.



1301413015
Oh my God. Why would you use THAT Mercruiser engine?
Use anything else but that.
I'm going to assume you have it in a boat in your yard, or someone that hates you, gave it to you.
I work on boats, and that is not an engine you want in your Rover. Trust me, it will cause you nothing but grief. There's a reason Mercury discontinued them.
Stick with the Rover engine. Or at the least,a GM engine. Something with product support and easily sourced parts.
That 3.7 mill is a Pandora's box of problems.
But good for you for getting your daughter involved in learning
automotive repair and restoration.
She'll probably become a doctor or lawyer.