Series 2A Not Starting After Running

[capecodrover]

I have a 65 Series 2A with 2.25L Petrol engine. It starts great when cold. After having been run long enough to get it up to temperature (Approx 70 degrees C water temp while running) if I shut it off the water temp will slowly rise to about 80 C. If I attempt to start it within about 15 minutes, I can usually get it started but after about 30 minutes it will not start. It turns over but will not start. I have to let it cool down for about an hour before it will start again. The vehicle has a mechanical fuel pump. This is an ex Military vehicle originally purchased from Rovers North. The vehicle came with an oil cooler in front of the radiator. The problem I am having existed before and after the oil cooer was re-installed. Thinking it might be vapor lock, I have routed the fuel line away from the block. I have fabricated a two layer heat shield that I installed just above the manifold (but below the carburetor) to deflect the heat away from the carburetor. The heat shield is two aluminum plates separated by an air gap. There is a phenolic block between the carburetor and the intake manifold so that it is not in direct contact with the manifold. Most recently I installed a vapor separator fuel filter. The third port on the fuel filter has a fuel line that goes back to the fuel tank. I had to install a bulkhead connector on the tank to attach the return line from the vapor separator fuel filter. Nothing has worked so far. I am running out of ideas on how to solve this problem. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree thinking it is vapor lock but whatever the cause it is preventing me from using the vehicle. I drove the vehicle for 10 years (1985 to 1995) without any problems. It then underwent a frame up restoration, engine rebuild etc that has taken many years and now I am having these issues. It seems to be heat related since the vehicle starts great when cold and runs until it is intentionally shut down. Any advice is welcome. Thank you. CapeCodRover

[jimrr]

i had a rotor that was fine when cold but when hot a hairline crack would open on that wide section of the rotor. I'm just saying this to show how varied things can get. I always thought I knew all the answers on a fuel issue but ............ anyway, you have to determine whether it is fuel or not. pour a little gas into the intake while cranking, check the spark etc. kind of hard without narrowing it down some. let us know how it goes.

[roverp480]

You seem to have taken more than the usual steps to prevent vapour so I would start looking elsewhere. You may know all this , but the 1965 Handbook advises that when starting from warm or hot the accelerator should be depressed halfway down when cranking and released as soon as it fires . Is this how you are attempting the hot start ? Also I am pretty sure the carburettor is internally vented so that when stopped with a hot engine all the petrol vapour released is vented into the inlet piping and manifold which results in a very rich mixture when trying to start. It may well be worth clearing all this first by cranking the engine over with the throttle wide open with the ignition off, then switch ignition on and attempt a start . Do not pump the throttle just press the accelerator pedal fully and hold it there whilst cranking. As jimrr suggests it would be well worth checking you are getting a good spark when it wont start. Referring back to a possibility of vapour locking, have you tried operating the priming lever on the fuel pump first?

[capecodrover]

I will check out the spark when it will not start to see if it is present. I will also check at the carburetor inlet to see if the fuel pump is moving any gasoline when it won't start. I will follow the suggested hot engine starting procedures as well. Thanks for the ideas. I will be back with my findings toward the end of the week when I have had a chance to work on the vehicle. If you have any other ideas in the mean time please pass the along.

[irie]

cold start

i had a rotor that was fine when cold but when hot a hairline crack would open on that wide section of the rotor. I'm just saying this to show how varied things can get. I always thought I knew all the answers on a fuel issue but ............ anyway, you have to determine whether it is fuel or not. pour a little gas into the intake while cranking, check the spark etc. kind of hard without narrowing it down some. let us know how it goes.

I have a 72 Winnebago with a big block and edelbrock carb that does not start when warm other than by holding the pedal to the floor and allowing fuel to be burned off. I am more suspect of an electrical issue. Like the radio that doesn't play in the plow truck when the defrost warms up the dash or the tail lights that only work when it is raining would make me consider electrical. ? Rotor , coil ,resisters would be my guess. pull the coil wire off when it is hot an check for spark .

[jimrr]

yea, ground faults ............ gremlins!!

[cedryck]

yea, ground faults ............ gremlins!!

Gremlins, for sure, I had a faulting coil that when was hot, would not allow truck to start, replaced coil problem gone, I keep a spare in part box in back of truck area where the 70 lb. staffordshire terrier roams,

[capecodrover]

Thanks to you guys I am convinced I need to widen my search. Which coil wire should come off when checking for spark. I assume it is not the one that goes to the center of the distributor. Is that right?

[caperover]

CCRover

I've sent you a PM - am willing to assist.

CapeRover

[jimrr]

he meant the center (only) wire from the coil, and check to ground for a spark when engine turns, or you can activate it manually via the points kinda!! or just pull the easiest to reach one off a plug.
the surest test is to just stick your finger into the coil output, this eliminates the possibility of a bad wire .......... c'mon, don't be a weenie !!!

[erik88lr]

"the surest test is to just stick your finger into the coil output, this eliminates the possibility of a bad wire .......... c'mon, don't be a weenie !!!"

That's not a good suggestion. You want something damp, like your tongue, to guarantee good conductivity.

[vlad_d]

Great bunch of folks here giving good advice. I love a good puzzle!

I don't have anecdotal experience with the Rovers, but plenty with other cars. The old adage applies here:
"An engine needs 3 things to work:
1)Fuel
2)Air
3)Spark"

It has never failed me. I get sucked into throwing parts at the car like the next guy, too.

But isolate one thing and remove it from the possible culprits. Sounds like you've nearly exhausted "Fuel". Confirm the next two.

Some other notes:
A)[Fuel] Pull off the big hose from the top of the carburator. Let the sucker breath. Does it smell like gas from about 1.5 feet away? It's flooded. If you can't get it started by flooring the gas while cranking, then let it sit or blow air down the carb to let the extra gas evaporate.

B)[Air] How's your choke? If you can get it started, can you keep it going by manually messing with the air/Fuel flap? Will it stay running with no air cleaner? Maybe it's not getting enough air.

C)[Spark] Buy an extra Spark plug($3) and bend off the tang. When it won't start, pull off the most accessible wire from the head side. Shove the dummy Spark plug into it and hold (preferably with some rubber handled pliers) the dummy plug about 1/4 inch from the head. Have a buddy crank the motor. Do you have Spark? You should see an arc going to the head.

If either of those fail-chase down that lead.

Good luck!