tires.. what are my options? [Archive]

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onecross

08-11-2007, 11:39 AM

KevinNY

08-11-2007, 11:46 AM

Cooper Discoverer ST smooth on pavement and amazing capable off road. Where are you located? I might be moving up to larger ones after fitting my new engine, have 5 235/85-16s now.

onecross

08-11-2007, 12:09 PM

Cooper Discoverer ST smooth on pavement and amazing capable off road. Where are you located? I might be moving up to larger ones after fitting my new engine, have 5 235/85-16s now.

I'm located in Texas

badvibes

08-11-2007, 01:08 PM

My dad and i are doing a frame off restoration on my 1960 series II 109 station wagon we have rebuilt the drive terrain and powder coated everything we could. We also added parabolic springs and pro comp shocks. Now we are at the point were i need to decide what kind of tires to put on it. I think i want an all terrain tire that will be nice on the highway and still be capable off road. any ideas?

These are the tires a few people recommended: BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO (235/85R-16) dose anyone have experience with these tires on their rovers?

Thanks
-Mat

Matt-

The BFG 235/85/16 is exactly what I have on my 88. They are the old style, not the KOs. I like them alot. Great onroad, quiet. Really good in the dirt and rocks. Deep sand they need to be way aired down. One of my frequent areas to play is a huge sand dune with dirt/rock hillclimbs all around it. Their weak spot is mud. I'd say they're fair to poor in bad mud. The tread loads up. I get very light rubbing on the front springs at full lock. I run an original 88 suspension that has @ 5000 miles on it. Compared to the Pro Comp muds and radial Swampers I've run on my other 4X they aren't even in the same league for mud. For what I use my Rover for the BFGs work very well for me.

Jeff

Jim-ME

08-11-2007, 04:19 PM

I have run BFG ATs for many years and currently have 33X9.50s on my 88. I have had them go well over 50,000 miles with 6,000 miles between rotations. They do load up in mud but I've never wished that I have had another tire.

BackInA88

08-11-2007, 04:47 PM

sayers

08-11-2007, 05:12 PM

KevinNY, is right I have the cooper ST tires and they not only look good but handle great on the roadway.

Mark Filtranti

08-11-2007, 11:18 PM

Kevin
I just put a pair of them on my 88 tonight on new Wolf wheels. Had Buckshot mudders, and loved them. Great performance,mileage but no longer available. I did a lot of searching for tires, hope it paid off. The Buckshots were great, but I now do more road miles (daily driver). BF's have gotten way to pricey, with bad mileage, and just another suv tire to me. I wanted something milder than the buckshots, and better in the snow. When the ST's arrived I discovered that I still had an agressive mud tire that was siped, but still a somewhat road tire. Have we found that true multi-purpose tire for a rover? Could you please tell me what to look for with these tires. Did I spend my money well?
Thanks
Mark
PS Cant wait for it to snow!

JimCT

08-12-2007, 08:09 AM

http://www.intercotire.com/site35.php

running 255/85-16's on our ambulance, 235/85-16 on our beater RR. Great in snow, mud...not bad on the highway either, and cheap, realatively so at least.

KevinNY

08-12-2007, 09:58 AM

Keven
I just put a pair of them on my 88 tonight on new Wolf wheels. Had Buckshot mudders, and loved them. Great performance,mileage but no longer available. I did a lot of searching for tires, hope it paid off. The Buckshots were great, but I now do more road miles (daily driver). BF's have gotten way to pricey, with bad mileage, and just another suv tire to me. I wanted something milder than the buckshots, and better in the snow. When the ST's arrived I discovered that I still had an agressive mud tire that was siped, but still a somewhat road tire. Have we found that true multi-purpose tire for a rover? Could you please tell me what to look for with these tires. Did I spend my money well?
Thanks
Mark
PS Cant wait for it to snow!

I have driven through everything with these and am always impressed that I am still moving. My other set of wheels are Interco LTB swampers on Beadlock rims for comparison! These tires are very popular with our series friends north of the border as well.

VTRover

08-12-2007, 04:19 PM

After three weeks of tire testing and driver training for Michelin and BFG I would recommend the new Michlien AT2 (the next generation of AT). The performance is amazing and routinely bests the BFG Mud Terrain. Virtually all of the participants like the AT2.

jac04

08-12-2007, 07:23 PM

^^ Interesting. The A/T2 certainly doesn't LOOK like an aggressive tire:
http://www.michelinman.com/tires/light-truck/ltx-at2/

KevinNY

08-12-2007, 07:31 PM

Or perhaps they set up the bag of goods and you bought it. 14/32" of all season road tread? That is clearly a road tire that would be useless in mud.

VTRover

08-12-2007, 09:33 PM

yorker

08-13-2007, 07:52 AM

B.F. Goodrich's Commercial Traction LT's are a really decent tire and not a poor choice.
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/overview/commercial-t-a-traction/48.html

http://www.titanatv.com/lt_truck/images/bfgcommercial_ta_traction_large.jpg
http://www.titanatv.com/lt_truck/bfg_commercial.htm

I've also had good luck with Goodyear's Workhorse Extra Grip:
http://www.goodyeartires.com/goodyeartireselector/graphics/Tires/full/108001.jpg
http://www.goodyeartires.com/goodyeartireselector/display_tire.jsp?prodline=Workhorse+Extra+Grip&mrktarea=Light+Truck&treadwidth=&aspectratio=&rimdiameter=&sidewall

Where you live Goodrich's All Terrains might be OK- I'm not really fond of them because I've had very bad luck with them in greasy mud. It has gotten to the point that we install chains with them whenever we go offroad. :sly:

luckyjoe

08-13-2007, 08:30 AM

> ...Michlien AT2 (the next generation of AT). The performance is
> amazing and routinely bests the BFG Mud Terrain.

VTRover - could you classify *performance* in your statement above?

Thanks,

Tom P.

KevinNY

08-13-2007, 09:41 AM

When was the last time you tested six different types of tires on six identical Land Rovers for weeks at a time? When you do please comment. Often times the most agressive looking tire is not the best off-roading choice.

I wheel pretty much every weekend and have run 4 different tires on my series coiler and 3 on my D2 everywhere from 3 feet of sugar snow in Maine to dry rock at 13,000 feet in Colorado and most every terrain in between. You went on a sponsored company junket with 2 tire makers marketing to you.

JimCT

08-13-2007, 09:44 AM

I do not think there are any magic bullets when it comes to mud tires. They need lots of open void space otherwise the tread fills with mud and you end up with a well lubricated slick. An AG tractor tire is probably the extreme, but they work. An AT tire, no matter what brand will fill up with sticky greasy mud and become no better than any street tire. And that comes from years of real life experimention too!

VTRover

08-13-2007, 10:09 AM

Let's steer this discussion back on course. The original question was:

My dad and i are doing a frame off restoration on my 1960 series II 109 station wagon we have rebuilt the drive terrain and powder coated everything we could. We also added parabolic springs and pro comp shocks. Now we are at the point were i need to decide what kind of tires to put on it. I think i want an all terrain tire that will be nice on the highway and still be capable off road. any ideas?

These are the tires a few people recommended: BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO (235/85R-16) dose anyone have experience with these tires on their rovers?

Thanks
-Mat
__________________________________________________ ____________

Where O where do you see anyting about a request for a MUD only tire? My suggestion was based on his original question. Kevin please refrain from making ignorant bitchy comments about "a bag of goods" and as you know I teach off road driving and have been working with Michelin to help their clients evaulate a variety of tires. I'm an instructor not the customer - got that? After trying a zillion tires I like the AT2 for a variety of reasons. I think too many people get caught up in the look of the tire rather than how it actually performs. By the way I like that Cooper ST tire also and may order a set for my Series.

msggunny

08-13-2007, 10:31 AM

I am running 31" BFG A/T KO's on my Toy and have ran them on one of my cherokees. Great tire for the street and good on the trail as long as you dont plan on doing any serious mud.

Im running BFG Trac Edge's on my series right now. Great tire, too bad they dont make them any more. Those Cooper's look similar, they might be my next set.

TSR53

08-13-2007, 11:12 AM

eEwwww! I love tire threads!!! Super show and tell. I realize that this thread is requesting tires that will work for a Land Rover Series II, IIa, III but here are good tires and my 0.02¢ experience on these that I've used since 1980. Hopefully you'll find this interesting or at least entertaining eventhough the tire designs must be as old as me by now! Listed in order of what worked best for me, what condition and what vehicle they were on.

Best Mud, Deep Snow and overall good on the highway tire is ...

Goodyear XT terra tire, 31x11.50-15
Also available in 31x15.50-15 (lugs wrap around the side). I've used this on my old 1982 Toyota 4WD longbed pickup (hilux) in loamy wet spring mud near the Rubicon, deep snow, Scott's Creek sand (north of Santa Cruz, CA), granite rocks, SUPER DEEP sticky mud, deep river fording, dry dusty conditions and experienced hot tarmac on busy California higways to and from Lake Tahoe = had to make emergency stops with them. These are not as noisy on the road as you would expect - they just plain work. We routinely used to get 20,000 miles out of a set running mostly on highway. They worked in the rain too. These are NOT tread lightly tires, they dig big time. We had to purchase these through a farm account. If you can find a set, buy them. Might be out of production, my pick of the day.
http://c7716.r16.cf2.rackcdn.com/RN-Forum/users/TSR53/goodyear-xt-terra-tire.jpg http://c7716.r16.cf2.rackcdn.com/RN-Forum/users/TSR53/goodyear-xt-terra-tire2.jpg
1982 Toyota 4WD longbed, 18RG twin cam 2.0 liter, dual Mikuni carbs. Goodyear XT terra tire. (sorry for the lousy photos, scanned from 35mm slides)

Firestone ATX
Another good choice for mud, just different than the Goodyear XTs. Not as good in the rain, too much flat un-siped tread surface. Might be out of production.
http://c7716.r16.cf2.rackcdn.com/RN-Forum/users/TSR53/firestone-atx.jpg
1980 Isuzu 4WD pickup, Firestone ATX.

BFG Mud-Terrains
Everyone knows how well these work. They are noisy on the highway, and work well off road in Telluride, CO Black Bear Pass loose wet rock conditions. In Vermont mud (similar to Rubicon spring mud - if there is such a thing?) they work really well. About the same as the Goodyear XTs on the highway. Good Choice.
http://www.roversnorth.com/gallery/gal/Solihull_Society_Nationals/2001-Solihull_Nationals_Ouray,CO/co23b.jpg
1994 Defender 90 NAS soft top. BFG Radial Mud-Terrains.

Mickey Thompson Baja Belted
AWESOME in the sand and gravel. 2 Fiberglass belts, that allow lower than normal air pressure levels. I routinely ran these down to 8-12psi. Good for dry conditions. Ok in the mud, but they pack up quickly and are harder than normal to clean. Slick in the rain, must have been the harder or different rubber compound. Can be run either direction.
http://c7716.r16.cf2.rackcdn.com/RN-Forum/users/TSR53/mickey-thompson-baja-belted.jpg http://c7716.r16.cf2.rackcdn.com/RN-Forum/users/TSR53/mickey-thompson-baja-belted2.jpg
1996 Toyota Tacoma 4WD extracab, 3.4ltr v6 5spd. Mickey Thompson Baja Belted.

KevinNY

08-13-2007, 11:41 AM

Let's steer this discussion back on course. The original question was:
__________________________________________________ ____________

Where O where do you see anyting about a request for a MUD only tire? My suggestion was based on his original question. Kevin please refrain from making ignorant bitchy comments about "a bag of goods" and as you know I teach off road driving and have been working with Michelin to help their clients evaulate a variety of tires. I'm an instructor not the customer - got that? After trying a zillion tires I like the AT2 for a variety of reasons. I think too many people get caught up in the look of the tire rather than how it actually performs. By the way I like that Cooper ST tire also and may order a set for my Series.

So 6 tires went to a Zillion? A few months ago you were online looking for snow tire recomendations, now you are an industry expert? Where do you teach off road instruction?

jp-

08-13-2007, 12:45 PM

Where do you teach off road instruction?

In my dad's basement. Are you happy now?

Opps, sorry wrong comment...

jp-

08-13-2007, 12:50 PM

JimCT

08-13-2007, 01:31 PM

The son of the guy we get our tires from just returned from your class in Vermont and was really impressed with the class, and abilities of RR's and the Michelin tires. Might have to try them for my wifes car this fall.

VTRover

08-13-2007, 07:54 PM

Jim, thank you for that nice comment. So far everyone has had a great time and learned a ton!

Eric

Mark Filtranti

08-13-2007, 09:02 PM

Eric you are correct about not judging a tire by looks. Before I had a RRC, I used to laugh at the Mich 4x4's on RRC's. Then I repaced the previous no-name tires with the correct tire (Mich 4x4). Those had to be the best all-purpose tire for a RRC I have ever used. No longer manufactured, I miss them dearly, so does my wife (its her truck). That tire was a perfect for flooded roads in New Orleans (yearly), snow storms in Minn, and we never hesitated to pull off road anywhere anytime. It still has Mich's, but they dont compare to the lost forever favorites. With those on a RRC you had to feel sort of fearless, and in total control as we passed cars and trucks off the road in a good storm in the north. The available substitute from Mich (sinichrone) are not performing like the old 4x4's, so I hear.
Do you have any info on those? I need to put new rubber on the RRC, and would like to get a Mich as close to performing like the old 4x4's. The truck and my wife stay on the road more than before, but dont ever want to be scared to show up all the soccer mom suvs that are trulely wimpy, compared to a Rover.

PS I have the Coopers on my truck (88)

Mark Filtranti

08-13-2007, 09:18 PM

Sorry I got off on the RRC route guys.

Leslie

08-13-2007, 09:57 PM

Here's my two cents' worth.....

I've currently got BFG AT-ko's on the Disco. They're decent all-round everyday tires. Highway, around town, gravel roads, dirt roads, but, they're not mud-tires.

Contrary to Yorker's experience: prior to the AT's, I had the Commercial TA/traction tires, and they sucked. They wouldn't wear evenly, they wore quickly, they weren't good off-road, not particularly smooth on-road... I was hoping that it would be a good replacement to the olf Trac-Edge, but it wasn't, it didn't live up to the standard.

On the Series, Michelin XZL's. Don't think I'd suggest them for something that spends most of its time on asphalt, not for a daily driver. They're reputable, but, they're not magic. And, they'd be expensive to replace.

On the other Disco I had, I loved the Dunlop R/T's that I had. I prefer them over the AT-ko's, but, it's easier to find the ko's on sale.... I'll probably go back to the R/T's for the next set on the Disco, unless I finally give the MT-km a try..... Before the Dunlops, I had the Michelin 4x4-XPC's, have to admit, for a "street" tire they were better than I expected, but, they're almost as much as the XZL's...

At work, we run Goodyears exclusively. They're okay.... I'm not a big Goodyear fan, but, they're not as bad as the Commercial-traction's. Oh, and long ago, I had a set of Bridgestones on an old Wagoneer I had... they were okay, but, I don't think I'd go back to them....

I've not ran a true mud-tire. If I was looking for something for *mud*, it wouldn't be something that you would want as a daily driving tire.... since I'm not trailering vehicles to trail-heads, I'm not willing to go to something that skewed towards offroad only... (I don't consider the MT-km a mud-tire, FWIW, it's just a more aggressive AT tire, IMO.....)

So, in summary, I'd probably pick the R/T's, but the AT-ko's wouldn't be bad, if I know that I'm going to do a lot more time on blacktop... but, might try the MT-km's if it's not a long-distance commuter.

FWIW.....

Momo

08-14-2007, 12:44 AM

SuperTraxion Tires:

"Great traction with husky lugs...pinned for studs...cool running with deep vented shoulders and a wide profile for flotation and traction".

Finally, a tire that has all the many features I look for in a woman.

onecross

08-14-2007, 01:34 AM

Thank you everyone for your advise and comments. I have been out of town for the past few days and just had a chance to sit down and read your replies. I have narrowed down the tire search a little to BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO, the Cooper Discoverer's. i did find a good price on a Definity Dakota A/T its at pep-boys and its only about $90 per tire. Dose anyone have and experience with this tire? http://www.pepboys.com/tires_wheels/lt-truck_suv_tires/index.html

I will be doing manly highway driving with some off road use. Hopefully more off road as i get more into it(this is my first 4x4)

Thanks again!

-Mat From Texas

P.S. i am 19 in college i purchased the rover for my 19th birthday and working this project is funded by me. it has turned out to be a pretty cool project for my dad and i... i just hope i can remember where all the pieces go... ill be sure to let y'all know how its going and post pictures!

day one
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/onecross/DSC02520.jpg
11 months later...
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/onecross/DSC04098.jpg

jp-

08-14-2007, 08:40 AM

Mat,

Is that the original frame? Or a new one?

I think it will be a nice truck when done. What did you have to give for it?

onecross

08-14-2007, 08:51 AM

Mat,

Is that the original frame? Or a new one?

I think it will be a nice truck when done. What did you have to give for it?
It is the original frame. My dad has a powder coating business and for my birthday gift my parents had it bead blasted and then powder coated with a high quality powder coating that is supposed to withstand UV light better then any normal powder or car paint. i paid about 4 grand, i think it was worth it the frame had no rust.

yorker

08-14-2007, 10:07 AM

Im running BFG Trac Edge's on my series right now. Great tire, too bad they dont make them any more. Those Cooper's look similar, they might be my next set.

Yeah the Commercial Traction LT's replaced the Trac Edge IIRC. they aren't a bad tire for a mix of on and offroad use, and snow if you happen to venture out in that.

yorker

08-14-2007, 10:20 AM

Tires.

I went with STA Super Traxions (7.50 x 16) because they were the closest to what my original tires looked like. Yes my tires were left over from the 60's.

http://www.stausaonline.com/light-truck/super-traxion.html

(FIG C)

I love the look, but really wish I had gone with a 235/85's though as the Traxion tires don't flex much at all (Load Range E). In the 88, even with parabolics it rides like a roller coaster.

Those are great old school tires and look perfect on a Series. Most of the serties trucks I have bouight have had them or a similar clone on them when I bought them. They are an aged design but they still work great!:thumb-up:

Tim Smith

08-14-2007, 11:45 AM

Hey Mat, nice work! Was that seller dyslexic or lazy? :p

I'm still running on the BFG MT's that came with my truck about 3 or 4 years and about 30 or 40,000 miles ago. I'd say they have about half their tread left at this point. Overall they are pretty good but I'm getting sick of some of the daily driving issues.

1) Off road:

Very good off road, generally speaking that is. They give good grip off the pavement and usually render a lot of confidence on the trail.
Good in the mud. I've not been let down yet, but I'm not the deep mudder type and I'm sure there are better tires out there for bogging it.
Iffy' in the snow. If you loose your momentum in deep snow, you better bring out the shovel. The lugs won't clean out very well until you are moving again so always try to park on a downhill to get moving again.2) On road:

When you get the pressure right for your truck, they aren't half bad on dry pavement. Corner well but will break loose in hard breaking... if you try.
They suck in the rain. You get sucked into puddles and they spin at stop signs (yes, with a stock 2.25) so hold on.
They are a disaster in the snow.
With the roof off, you will realize that they are very loud.Really these aren't bad but I'm now looking for something that is a little more realistic for my driving which really is 85% on road 10% off road and 5% actually needing the heavy off road gear and tires. So I'm leaning toward getting some highway/all weather tires and carrying either chains or another set of off road tires to club events.

Maybe the noise would drop a bit and my top speed and mileage might go up too.

Cheers,
Tim

jp-

08-14-2007, 11:53 AM

A tire that I really mis is the General Versa-Trac.

Great tire.

Hey Tim,

What is hard breaking?

Tim Smith

08-14-2007, 12:14 PM

Hey Tim,

What is hard breaking?
Sorry my spelling is horendous... but met me explain.

That is what happens when you try not to smoosh the little kid that's looking at you from their car seat when Mom pulls out right in front of you on the state highway while she's on the cell phone behind the wheel of her luxo-ship. Don't get me started.

It also happens when deer come out to play. I struck 3 deer last year with the 88" and I can tell you that I tried like hell to avoid every one of them. No damage to the truck but every time it seemed like the tires would lock up and sort of give up on trying to do their job.

Last year I also struck 3 deer with the Mercedes (yes it was a strange year) and when the brakes locked up the tires which, were obviously road based, felt like they were still trying to slow you down. The BFG's just make noise and slide.

Thats' hard braking. Luckily no breaking was involved. :p

Cheers,
Tim

Tim Smith

08-14-2007, 12:18 PM

...Last year I also struck 3 deer with the Mercedes (yes it was a strange year)...
Before someone points it out, the Merc was made way before anti lock breaks were standard, so that had nothing to do with the braking...

jp-

08-15-2007, 12:54 PM

Tim,

They sell deer whistles that you can put on your vehicle to keep from hitting them. You might want to invest in a few...

I have them on my Ducati. Hitting a deer on a motorcylce would suck.

Tim Smith

08-15-2007, 02:51 PM

I thought those were a joke. I used to have a set on a car years ago and still had many dearly close misses. Ha!

If I'm not mistaken, my neck of the woods (Fairfield County CT) has one of the highest deer populations per square mile in the nation. During rutting season you would be hard pressed to not see one jump out in front of you at some point. We even have a family of them sleeping in our back yard most of the year and I have personally walked up to one as close as 20 feet before it decided to bolt. They are a true terror on the Merritt turnpike.

I guess this is what happens when you take up all of their land with homes and remove their natural predators.

Any way, are deer whistles actually any good?

Sorry for the hijack here folks. :o

LaneRover

08-15-2007, 06:29 PM

A further Hi-Jack

It is not just putting homes in deer areas. Fairfield County and similar Counties outside of New York City have higher deer populations than the Catskil mountains. Because of fewer predators but also because we plant a lot of 'pretty' things that they LOVE to eat. It is also easier to move around in the winter on or near roads rather than through the deep woods.

Back to the thread... I just bought some Goodyear Workhorses for my Rover in Maine. Didn't get to take them off road yet too much but so far I really like them.

Brent

jp-

08-16-2007, 11:15 AM

I thought those were a joke.

I'm sure that there are some that don't work. But mine do. Dogs hate them too.

PH4

08-19-2007, 02:05 PM

I bought these tires years ago in Switzerland and have found them to be an excellant all around tire. Quite on the and grippy on wet tarmac and good in the mud. I may try to ship a couple of sets over. They are 750x16. SeeLink.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.ciao.com/iit/images/products/normal/146/Firestone_MS_212__578146.jpg&imgrefurl=http://auto.ciao.it/Firestone_MS_212__578146&h=150&w=200&sz=5&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=2DU3K0PXd2jaoM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dms212%2Bfirestone%26svnum%3D10%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN