Who are your favorite LR vendors?

[alaskajosh]

Who are your favorite LR parts and accessory vendors and why?

Rate them in the categories of
-Product knowlege
-Tech knowlege
-Friendly service
-Selection/depth of inventory
-Ease of shopping (internet, catalog)
-Price

I'm asking because I'm getting into a big project and am pretty new to the series scene. I would like to establish vendor relationships and avoid pitfalls that others may have experienced.

Myself, I am willing to pay more if I really feel like I'm getting more. And I am loyal to good/friendly/personal/knowlegable service. But paying more for snobbery turns me off big time.

This is, of course, in a spirit of respect to our hosts here at RN.. but I bet they'd be as/more interested in the feedback as anyone.

[Roverowner]

I really like DAP because of an experience I had with my 92 RR. See, I had a LF CV joint go on me and I called around to get a replacement. Seems straightforward enough. The problem was that at some time in the past a previous owner had replaced the entire front axle assembly with an earlier one. After a couple calls to the big parts houses, I was really frustrated. Every call started out with, "So, what is the vehicle doing? Are you sure it's the CV? How do you know? Could it be something else?" Blah, blah, blah. I'm not calling for help with a diagnosis, I'm calling to get a replacement part. Well, we get into the part ordering part of the call, and I've got the guy on the phone telling me that what I'm looking at in my hand (the actual CV joint) was not the correct part. They said they would send me a CV joint for a 92RR, but it was obvious that that was not the part I needed. I called DAP and the guy on the phone, while confused a bit at first, actually worked with me to figure out what I needed. He concluded that at some point in the past the axle assembly had been changed and told me how to figure out what year CV I needed. I placed the order, received it the next day, and installed it without issue. The kicker is that the price was lower than the two other places that I had called first. I'm now loyal to DAP. I still order from pretty much everyone, but DAP always gets the first look.

[scott]

rovers north...i'm hoping my vote move's 'em to comp me couple of drive line boots...but i've enjoyed doing business with 'em, there web site is one of the more user friendly and they host this board which has put me in touch with some good folks with great tips on dignostics an repairs.

[TeriAnn]

First I need to say that British Pacific is one of my clients. I run an independent company that specializes in web site design and search engine optimization. I designed, built and maintain BP'sweb site. BP sponsored my Land Rover (free parts & sometimes gas money) in 1998 and since then have kept me in tyres as the price for the advertising on the side of my Land rover.


http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/GRleftFillers98.JPEG



I lost full sponsorship in 1999 when I had a Ford 302, T-18 gearbox and Scout II power steering installed. I'll try not to be biased in this reply. These are my own comments based upon my own experiences and feelings and are not those of any company I may have a relationship with.

First the specialty folks:

Great Basin Rovers is my first choice for things like new propshafts, differentials and poly bushings. Great Basin provides very good strong 24 and larger spline hardened axles and drive flanges.

My Land Rover has Great Basin hardened 24 spline Salisbury rear axles & drive flange, custom Great Basin front propshaft with long slip joint, high angle yolks and smaller diameter tubing for additional clearance at the under bulkhead cross member. I also use Great Basin's greasable poly bushings. Polybushings do not stand up well to heat and the assembly lube is soon gone. Spend much time on wash board surfaces and poly bushings start falling apart quickly. Great Basin sells a kit that includes a bolt drilled out in the centre & grease fitting on the head and bushings with grooves to hold grease. Keep the bushings greased and the friction down for longer life and to eliminate that dry polybush squeak. Great Basin supplied me with my front differential, set up and ready to install. I have an early Range Rover carrier, Trutrac 24 spline diff, and 4.75:1 R&P (much stronger than the Rover 4.7:1 R&P)

SeriesTrek is relatively new on the scene and seems like a first rate supplier of Series axles, Toyota locking diff conversions and Mercedes diesel adapters. If you are building a Series Land Rover for serious expedition traveling or off roading Series Trek is worth looking into.

My Land Rover has Seriestrek 24 spline front axles.

Rovers Down South carries a wide selection of Genuine Land Rover stuff at very good prices. They don't carry everything and I don't think of them as a primary supplier. But what they do have is Genuine Land Rover and their prices are good. I personally have not bought many things from them because of distance and lack of mind share. I just think of my 2 primary suppliers first.

Wise owl/Rock mountain were once a single company. Wise owl is where I tend to go for used parts. Rocky mountain sells interesting stuff that they have had fabricated. Their aluminum double sliding front door tops are very good, and the Roverdrive overdrive seems to be the strongest available.

I don't use parabolic springs but I understand that the top brands are Rocky Mountain and Hystee Automotive Components http://www.heystee-automotive.com (http://www.heystee-automotive.com/)

My Land Rover has Torral Industries front Disc brakes sold by Rocky Mountain. I like them a lot. But I think Timm Cooper's disc brake conversion is one step better but costs twice as much to purchase by the time you finish the conversion. The Torral conversion uses common GM off the shelf consumable components and Timm's conversion uses Defender off the shelf brake consumables.

I don't have enough experience with the other specialty suppliers to comment. But I can comment on the US "big three", Atlantic British, British Pacific and Rovers North.

Atlantic British was my first parts supplier back in the mid 1970's. Their prices were high and I got a lot of aftermarket stuff that sometimes didn't fit quite right and a lot of time didn't last long on a working Land Rover. I don't think I've ever quite forgiven them for those years. So I am emotionally biased here. These days they seem to sell a fair amount of Bearmarch products. I've personally never had much luck with Bearmarch stuff holding up in my vehicles. AB seems to be a lot more interested in coilers than Series rigs and have been branching out to other automotive brands. Last time I looked their sales folks were on commission. The last few I talked to on the phone didn't seem very knowledgeable about Series Land Rovers. Personally I've lost faith in them as a serious Series LR supplier over a decade ago and no longer consider them when looking for Series parts.

British Pacific of course is a company I have close economic ties to and the one I know the best. They are located about 500 miles South of me so are my local supplier. The folks at British Pacific have all been selling Land Rover parts for a bunch of years and are quite knowledgeable. The web site is set up so that all on line orders get reviewed by a sales person and they get back to you if they suspect you may have made an error in your order. They work to minimize wrong parts being ordered to try to keep the customer happy and to minimize their own return & restocking costs. British Pacific has close ties to Allmakes in the UK who has a close high volume relationship to Land Rover. British Pacific carries or can order any part that Land Rover sells for any US spec Land Rover vehicle. So they are a good source for genuine parts. They also carry OEM and aftermarket parts (mostly Allmakes).

The niche British Pacific tries to occupy is the low cost, high quality parts supplier for Genuine, OEM and aftermarket parts. They carry parts for all US spec Land Rover & Range Rover models from 1958 through 2007

Rovers North is my backup supplier. I'm on the West coast & they are on the East and ground UPS takes about a week to get to me. I think they are a good group of very knowledgeable people. They have the image of being both knowledgeable and enthusiasts who both participate in and support local Land Rover events. The person who does their newsletter, catalogues and web site is very good at his job. All good guys in my book.

They tend to have a greater depth of stock in the slow moving parts (things you sell 1 or 5 of a year) than BP does. So when Land Rover discontinues a slow moving part, RN will usually have one on the shelf longer than BP will. Rovers North is an easy company to like but I often find their prices to be a little on the high side and I tend to wonder who manufactures their proline stuff. (There is a lot of cheap pattern stuff out there) I personally would like to see them a little more upfront about their aftermarket parts supplier identities.

I think RN carries parts only for Series II through US spec Defenders, Disco I & Range Rover Classics. And of course they emphasize the fact they they are an authorized Land Rover parts supplier. I think that is a mostly marketing emphasis since BP & RN both have access to the exact same genuine parts for the models that both companies support. I don't have any feeling about AB's access to genuine parts.

AB, BP & RN all keep a close tab on each other's prices and try to come close or undercut each other when their price structure allows it. That said I strongly suggest comparing prices and asking the brand when shopping around for a bunch of stuff.

Bottom line for me:
#1 BP my local supplier
#2 RN my back up supplier located a continent away
#3 Rovers Down South, I keep forgetting they are there
#4 AB, I've generally given up on them for series stuff.

And the Specialty suppliers of stronger than stock components all seem quite good and worth your attention when Genuine Land Rover is just not good enough.

[LaneRover]

Though my reply is a bit superflous after Terri-Ann's very knowledgable reply I will give my 2¢ worth.

Since I go between San Diego and Maine I can relate to Terri's use of British Pacific as her 'local' supplier. When I am on the West Coast BP gets my first call. When I am in Maine Rovers North gets my first call. There have been times that I have ordered from RN when I am on the West Coast and vice versa. To me both places have quite friendly and knowledable staffs. I do wish that BP was still in Burbank as it would allow me to stop by on occasion.

I did order the Roverdrive from Wise Old Owl ( I think it was them) and found them to be very helpful and were very quick to remedy a problem with a bad part that had slipped through their system. Basically a nut didn't have the threading all the way through and they immediately sent me a new one to correct the problem.

I have heard good things about Rovers Down South but have only ordered from him once.

Brent

[Jim-ME]

I have do alot of business with Rovers North and have always found them to provide quality parts at a fair price. I was able to visit them last May and I was very impressed with the service I got and the friendliness of everyone I met. Another factor is that because I live in Maine I can my order next business day which I really like.

I have also do business with Trevor at RovahFarm. He carries a relatively small selection of parts compared to RN, AB or BP but they are high quality and the prices are great. He has never failed to have any of the parts on the website and I also get them next day. I go to Trevor first when I need something he carries.

I have made a few purchases from AB and BP but generally only if I can't get it from Trevor or RN. I have not had any thing to complain about with either company other that AB generally has a more limited supply of Series parts than RN and with BP I have to wait due to distance.

Rocky Mountain - I currently have RM springs, door tops and their replacement transfercase cover. They treated me very well and produce a very high quality product. Someday I will have a Roverdrive.

Pangolin 4X4 - Ike Goss's products are also fantastic. If he makes it, you won't be disappointed. He also has a variety of spare parts and does very nice repair and restoration work.

Singing Camel Land Rovers - Marc has been great to get previously owned parts from and if I'm looking NLA parts he is the first place I go.

I have also ordered a few parts from Rovers Down South. They generally have great prices on genuine parts. You have to call them but it's worth it.

Last but not least I've ordered small parts from both Land Rover Series LR parts and Land Rover Orphanage in England. It takes about 10 days to get them and even with shipping I generally save money.

[alaskajosh]

Well having placed, and now received, my first order from BP I can't exactly say my first impression is a stellar one.

The salesman who answered the phone seemed impatient and annoyed from the get-go. He couldn't be bothered to really listen to what I needed. Impatiently told me the kit had everything I would need (this was moments after he had impatiently told me that there wasn't a kit for this application at all).

I asked, "So it will have all the oil sea...?"

"Yeahyeah it's got everything. How do you want to pay for that?" (I'm exagerating only a little here).

I figured I would have to wait a week until the order arrived, see just what it did include and then place another order for everything that I needed that it didn't include. And that turned out to be the case.. it had very little of what I did need and plenty of what I didn't.

What I hadn't counted on was that the gaskets would be crumpled up and almost every one of them torn. And now matter how many times I total the cost of the individual parts in the kit I can't get it to add up to the total kit cost..??

His impatience, and to some degree lack of product knowlege, will cost me another week of waiting and another steep shipping bill to Alaska (the few things that need added would have easily fit in the original box and added only nominal weight).

Suddenly their slightly cheaper prices aren't. That and, as good as their website is (TeriAnn), it cannot compare to a hard copy catalog with prices for ease of shopping.

[TeriAnn]

Impatiently told me the kit had everything I would need (this was moments after he had impatiently told me that there wasn't a kit for this application at all).

What was the kit for?

I just bought a gearbox/transfercase gasket set 2 weeks ago and the sales person pointed out that the gasket kit did not include seals, so any seals I needed would have to be ordered separately.

How were the gaskets mangled? Every gasket kit I've seen out of BP came in a sealed pack with thick cardboard back side and in a box big enough for the gasket set to lay flat. How was yours shipped? I'm trying to better understand what you are saying.


Suddenly their slightly cheaper prices aren't. That and, as good as their website is (TeriAnn), it cannot compare to a hard copy catalog with prices for ease of shopping.

I agree it is nice to be able to thumb through a catalogue and dream about the goodies you might buy. I often go to sleep browsing the latest fashion catlogue in bed. I enjoy browsing the RN catalogue and I print out the BP series catalogue just so I can have a hard copy (all 86 pages.).

About paper catalogues. When you produce a paper catalogue with prices you assume the catalogue will be current for a certain time and during that time shipping costs from the UK and purchase prices are likely to increase. You make your best guess at the price late in the catalogue's life, add your standard markup then you sell it for that price as opposed to what it costs you to stock the item on the day the catalogue was assembled. Without paper catalogues BP can price parts based upon their actual current cost and not on a projection of what it will cost late in the catalogue life. BP can adjust prices with each shipment if their landed price changes by uploading a new MySQL databse file to the server. That means prices are based upon real time costs and not a best guess projection at a future cost that might happen late in the catalogue's life.

Printing a paper catalogue is VERY expensive. By making the decision not to print a paper catalogue, BP was able to lower their price margins because the overhead costs were lower. Its a business decision. BP decided that its customers would prefer lower prices to a paper catalogue.

When BMW bought Land Rover they started changing Land Rover's part number system over to the BMW system, so part numbers were changing daily. Before the number system changeover was completed Ford bought Land Rover and part numbers started changing more. My guess is that RN switched to their own internal part number system as a way to have stable part numbers in their paper catalogues. Since BP doesn't have paper catalogues the numbers just get changed real time in the on line catalogues. This allows BP to stay with the Land Rover part number system.

But I do agree paper catalogues are more friendly, invite you to browse more and perhaps find additional things to purchase. I like them. But you gotta realize that you pay for the catalogue design, layout work, printing and distribution costs with each part you purchase.

Its all a compromise and a business decision based on a guess as to what the customers prefer. Paper catalogues do create a real overhead that has to be paid for. They can also help keep a company in the customer's mind as they browse through it over and over again. I don't know about you but I just can not pick up the RN catalogue and use it to order a part. I HAVE to browse through the eye candy pages of goodies before putting it down.

[alaskajosh]

TeriAnn: Good points on the catalog debate.. and I understand. Gosh I feel guilty though enjoying hours spent with RN's nice catalogue (I'll look at it while waiting at traffic lights for cryin' out loud) and then calling up BP to place an order. My conscience just about won't allow it.

The gaskets-- they are just the paper type, not black tar paper looking things or cork or anything. That said they were just thrown in with all the other bits and (I'm not kidding) many are torn almost in two. To BP's credit, this looks like Allmake's sloppy packaging job.
This kit was for swivel balls.

A guy at RN named "steve" was very friendly and helpful on some weather stripping and tie rod ends I ordered from them.

[TeriAnn]

TeriAnn: Good points on the catalog debate.. and I understand. Gosh I feel guilty though enjoying hours spent with RN's nice catalogue

I don't. I enjoy browsing their catalogue and others. And I agree their catalogue is very nice!

What I tend to feel guilty about is dwindling resources. As much as I like paper catalogues, I made a conscious decision to stop requesting them about 5 years ago since pretty much all the companies I might buy from had established an online catalogue. But I'm also funny about staying away from disposable when reusable can do the same job, minimizing trash generation and recycling. But when an unrequested catalogue comes in the mail I enjoy pouring through it as much as the next person.



The gaskets-- they are just the paper type, not black tar paper looking things or cork or anything. That said they were just thrown in with all the other bits and (I'm not kidding) many are torn almost in two. To BP's credit, this looks like Allmake's sloppy packaging job.
This kit was for swivel balls.

Was this the Railco bushing kit? I've been told that that kit comes with everything needed to renew the Railco bushings and yes that would come prepackaged from an Allmakes supplier. If you were asking about parts to rebuild an entire swivel assembly and not just the railco assembly it sounds like a miscommunication issue and that you may have caught the sales guy during an off moment.

Please let me know what kit it is & I'll pass the feedback to one of the Allmakes VPs. Allmakes is working on building an image in America as a supplier of high quality after market parts, but sometimes their packaging leaves a tad to be desired. I got an engine gasket set from them about a decade ago that included a neatly folded oil pan gasket and other gaskets just stuffed in and crumpled. I was very upset about having to iron paper gaskets before use. I think they give gaskets little thought but they are a highly visible item that can affect the perception of quality well beyond their monetary value.


A guy at RN named "steve" was very friendly and helpful on some weather stripping and tie rod ends I ordered from them.

I agree that I've always had a good experience talking to the Rovers North sales folks. Very well trained & very good phone manners. Over a couple decades I think I can remember getting bad information only once and always hung up thinking it was a good call.

[BackInA88]

The internet is a wonderful thing.
I don't know if this is the best place to discuss other vendors but I'll bite.

I have bought parts from just about every LR supplier out there. Shopping around using the internet to find the best part for the best price is half the fun.
That said I think I have bought about 50% of my stuff from RN. I really like their improved on-line catalog and I understand the order tracking is being fixed!!:thumb-up:

Only had problems with 2 places....
BP, sent me the wrong mix of frame and spring bushings even though I questioned what they said I needed a couple times. I was right, they took the stuff back and paid for the return shipping costs but I still lost a week or more waiting for the right parts.:mad: I have also found their on-line price list does not include all the products in their catalog?

Wise Owl, called and tried to order some parts, they needed to get prices together and were going to call me back. They never did so I bought elsewhere.:(

I have found huge differences in prices for the same part as well as someplaces charging big time for shipping.
It's all about shopping around for me.:)

Steve

[alaskajosh]

TeriAnn: This is an Allmakes "Kit- Swivel Pin" and even includes such things as the felt washer that goes on the end of the axle stub.

I'm not nearly as worried about the buggered gaskets as I am the bad service that will result in delays and additional shipping expense.

Steve:

The internet is a wonderful thing.
I don't know if this is the best place to discuss other vendors but I'll bite.

I must respectfully disagree. I don't think the internet is the best place for rumors or ad hominem attacks, but I do think it is very appropiately used for discussing, matter-of-factly, which services are getting it right and which have opportunities for improvement.

The internet has raised the tide for nearly all businesses. This is the one way it can help consumers. Pre-internet, bad practices could simply crawl back under their rock and wait for the next unsuspecting victim. Now word gets out World Wide. It rewards the good and corrects the bad... just as it should be.

If RN has nothing to hide (and it would seem they are a class act and don't have anything to hide) then they should be thrilled to have their bandwidth used in this way.

[BackInA88]

I meant Rovers North's forum is not the best place to talk about other vendors, no the internet in general.
After all they do provide this forum to us free of charge.

[Jim-ME]

TeriAnn,
I respectfully have to disagree with you about paper catalogs. First of all trees are a renewable resource that with proper management will still be here after many,many more generations are dead and gone. Trees will in the very near future provide not only paper, lumber and composite wood products for society but more electricity, ethanol, and quite possibly a substitute for home heating fuel while at the same time continue to provide a wide variety of non-consumptive uses such as wildlife habitat for a great variety of species, cleaner air and water and equally important a place to enjoy and relax. We actually use more energy to recycle paper than to use virgin fiber principally due to the energy requirements to remove ink from previously used paper products. I have been involved with natural resource management in Maine for the last 30 years and we currently have more trees in the state than we did 100 years ago. Do we always do everything right? NO, but we improve every day. Other than the fact that I wear out catalogs by reading them so much and then recycle them I really need them to be sure I'm ordering the correct parts or items. If I get unrequested catalogs I simply call the company and ask to be removed from the mailing list. For me, pictures are great! I understand your views on prices and overhead and appreciate them but to me that is where the ability to purchase real time off the net at a price of the day helps us all.

[alaskajosh]

:thumb-up: You're my hero Jim:thumb-up:
I was going to point out how pulp wood is hardly a "dwindling resource" but I'm glad I didn't... you did such a better job than I could have.

[badvibes]

Favorite? I don't know if that's the word I'd use. I need a part I want good quality, good price, convenience. The last part I ordered, clutch slave cylinder, I needed to get my truck running again. It isn't a "wish list" thing like better seats or a cool widget. I tried RN first, they don't take my credit card, I truly was surprised. Ordered the Lucas part from BP, it was instock and even with overnight shipping was less expensive. Don't take this as anything more than what it is. A one time, specific purchase of one item. When I need something I can't find/buy locally or have made for a reasonable cost I will get online and shop and compare. Wherever I find the item that is reasonably priced, instock and easy to purchase I'll buy it. Everyone gets a chance for my business and more than once. The information below is right off the companies websites.

Jeff

CLUTCH SLAVE CYLINDER - SERIES IIASKU:RNB599Price:$125.48



Compared with:

Slave cylinder (Ser. II & IIA) 266694, 266694P

Search by Part Number
Search (http://javascript<b></b>: document.product.submit())Please use the part number exactly as shown in the BP catalogsPart #:266694 Product:SLAVE CYLINDER IIA Price:$64.50

[TeriAnn]

TeriAnn,
I respectfully have to disagree with you about paper catalogs. First of all trees are a renewable resource that with proper management will still be here after many,many more generations are dead and gone.

With me it is a lifestyle and philosophy choice going back to my days on a small back to nature commune in the late 1960's. I've tried to tread lightly through all my adult life. Pulp trees are a common easily renwable resource. I agree. I personally choose to limit my use of disposable products. Now that web stores are more mature, I choose to not request paper cataloges when a good web based alternative is available.

It is my own personal lifestyle choice and no reflection on the number of pulp trees out there.

[greenmeanie]

For me it all comes down to :
1st. Price
2nd. Timeliness
3rd. Convenience
4th. Attitude.

Like everyone else I don't like paying more than I have to and getting my parts on time is a big factor. Having said that I do realise that if I am relying on on-line parts suppliers there is a lead time so I try and by parts based on predictive maintenance so its on my shelf when needed. I also tend to buy stock items such as bearings and oil seals from the suppliers in town as I have access to engineering catalogues for cross reference.

I also run a 101 so find myself buying parts in the UK a lot. If I predict well I can usually get my IIA parts put in the same package and find they cost a lot less. Using the above example a slave cylinder costs about $20 plus a portion of the shipping. In that I have to order parts from the UK I do tend to find the US suppliers to be very expensive for the bigger parts but good for the smaller stuff. I saved about $400 for new glazed door tops buying from the UK. The UK suppliers also tend to carry a better stock of the ex MOD parts.

I will not use a company that has an on-line catalogue but then requires you to phone in an order. The BP and especially the RN sites are a big plus for there companies.

Some of the UK suppliers have good sites although it really pays to know the exact part number you require as they are ot always just so service orientated as our hosts. I am a Brit so I get on with the people I talk to over there and, if they get it wrong, I have a brother that lives close enough that I can sic him on them to sort it out. This can help a lot! As I live in a large south west city that is an air freight hub it takes about 5-7 days to get here which is about the same as from our hosts. Even BP takes about 3 days to get here and they are only 4 or 5 hundred miles away.

I have had one bad experience with a UK supplier where they screwed me on the shipping and delivered way too late thus causing me a lot of problems. They had a very bad attitude when challenged about this and obviously thought they could get away with blowing off someone on another continent. As a result I will never use Paddocks again.

I tend to believe every company will make some errors which can be inconvenient. It is how they deal with the issue that is the mark of a good supplier.

Other than that I think the US suppliers have been covered well.

Cheers
Gregor

[jp-]

Wow, lots of folks weighing in here.

I tend to agree with Green here, although my list would be:

1. Price
2. Quality of Product
3. Convenience
4. Attitude
5. How knowledgeable is the help

First, nothing bothers me more that knowing exactly what part I need, but you a.) don’t think I know what I’m talking about or b.) want to sell me something else. Please, I only want what I want. Don’t ask me 3 times if I need the accompanying oil seal (or whatnot). No! I bought a spare last time dummy!

1. Price rules eternal. In a cash economy, the low price leader always wins (often times at the expense of quality).

2. Quality must be compared along with price. If it’s going to last, expect to pay more. Only fools buy on price alone.

3. I have no local suppliers other than TLR which is all the way across TN. So this category is reserved for non Rover situations (i.e. closest home improvement store).

4. If you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, please don’t come in to work today because you can be damn sure that I woke up on the wrong side.

5. If I walk into your store and ask you where the &#189;” Lag bolts are, tell me (no stupid looks please). If you don’t know, volunteer to find out (see #4).


Now on to Rover suppliers.

At the risk of being banned, my story is as follows:

RN: 1st in the game. These guys were helping people like me when I knew nothing. The help was free and the parts were good (and the prices high). This was a good business model and has served RN well. My father, my Uncle, and myself were all loyal to RN for the better part of 13 years. Then other companies started sprouting up that were offering the same quality parts at substantially lower rates. Now all the people that had been educated by the RN staff knew what parts they needed and didn’t require the in-depth help that they once had. The splinter companies didn’t have to maintain a staff of highly trained, highly educated employees and could accordingly reduce their costs.

I like RN; I always have. However, price still rules. Companies that adapt and become leaner survive, those that don’t…don’t.
The following companies I have dealt with and they have provided excellent service:

TLR Rovers
Rovers Down South
Rocky Mountain
Paul’s Safari Components
Singing Camel
Britannica Restorations


Marginal Service, excellent price:

Paddocks

[greenmeanie]

Well said JP - I forgot the quality thing.

I also forgot to add the worst place ever to buy parts from is the local LR dealership. Overpriced and if you want anything other than the green oval keychain tat or an oil filter your in for some fun. Without a VIN number the parts counter bloke was lost. Finally, I was impressed that he was able to quote the price with a straight face. I suppose LR have gone the way of the rest of the plastic SUV dealers.

THere are a few small specialised suppliers that cater to the British car crowd that have got me out of a hole when the LR parts places have not come through. For wiring loom parts British Wiring Products are good although the company has just changed hands. Their site has a useful chart giving max current rating for each wire size and type which is useful if you are making your own harness.I ended up using them as they stock some of the more unusal wiring colours and connectors that are used on a 101. Fedhill USA are also useful for hydraulic fittings and brake line stuff that I could not get from our host's web site.

Once you get over the LR part numbers and start looking at stuff a lot of it is quite generic. I have also had some success with my local NAPA store with such things as a clutch master cyl overhaul kit and a fuel pump. I should add that in these two cases the LR overhaul kit has the wrong size of seals for a 101 and the LR fuel pump is NA or very expensive compared to $16 locally. In both cases it just required understanding the critical dimensions and requirements and having a friendly store clerk who is willing to let you spend some time with their x-ref catalogues. Time vs money I suppose.

As these trucks get older and more LR parts become NLA it opens a market for people like our hosts to step in with high quality (note the emphasis) replacements at a reasonable cost. This is one area that RN seems to be ahead of the game.

Cheers
Gregor

[giorgio]

I bought my first Series Land Rover in 1986, before the days of the Internet, and let me tell you it is a whole lot easier now than it was then to find parts. There were not even any US dealers back then.

I have done business with TLR, Rovers Down South, Rovers North, Wise Owl, and Rocky Mountain, in that order over the years, and have never had a "bad" experience with any of them.

Price is always important to me, but I agree with what others have said about the other qualities of a parts resource.

On my Series IIA, the tin can brake fluid reservoir was leaking. RN had a nice new plastic "replacement" part for $188.95. Wise Owl had an original looking metal "tin can" reservoir for $33.86. The "tin can" part turned out to be of much better (heavier) construction than the original part, but it still looked original.

I have to say that was a "no brainer" for me, over $150 cheaper!

Since they are located in western Canada, you might want to give them a try, since that is in your "neck of the woods"

[jp-]

Giorgio,

I have to dissagree with you on that Brake reservoir.

That plastic can is the sh!t. I have one on the 109". Fantastic bit of kit. You can see the level and it will never rust.

I didn't even realize anyone was still making them, otherwise I would have put one on the 88".

[TeriAnn]

I bought my first Series Land Rover in 1986, before the days of the Internet,
Ummm excuse me, but I first got my own internet connection in 1985 and there was already a thriving established internet community.

The British car mail list was founded in 1986. The LRO mail list split off from its parent british car mail list in early 1991. so in 1986 I was chatting about land Rovers on an internet mail list.

Contrary to popular belief Al Gore did not invent the internet in the 1990's.

[giorgio]

I am a little confused. I could not decide if you were agreeing with me or not, but either way......

I bought the heavy metal can from Wise Owl for $33.86. The original thin metal tin can type lasted 39 years, living in Newfoundland, New Jersey, and on the North Carolina coastline, before moving to Arkansas. This new heavier metal one should last at least that long, in an inland setting. If it only lasts another 39 years, I will be 101 years old. I think that the plastic would get brittle and crack before then, and anyway for $150 dollars cheaper, I am willing to take the chance, and it looks original.

To each their own, I suppose.

[giorgio]

TeriAnn,

Excuse me for the misstatement. I should have said, back before I had any knowledge of or access to the Internet. I believe that we (my company) first got Internet access in the mid 1990's here in central Arkansas, and we were certainly not the first on the block, but were probably still on the leading edge, (in Arkansas, that is, as far as small business owners are concerned.)

Giorgio

[jp-]

Ummm excuse me, but I first got my own internet connection in 1985 and there was already a thriving established internet community.

The British car mail list was founded in 1986. The LRO mail list split off from its parent british car mail list in early 1991. so in 1986 I was chatting about land Rovers on an internet mail list.

Contrary to popular belief Al Gore did not invent the internet in the 1990's.

You mean you were using BBS?

I'm sorry but I don't think the internet was around in 86. BBS's yes. Internet, no.

[Leslie]

You mean you were using BBS?

I'm sorry but I don't think the internet was around in 86. BBS's yes. Internet, no.


Could have been on a college campus at the time.....


I was using Gopher, ARCHIE, email, etc., in 1990 when I started college (had Fortran on an AVAX system); but, I'd had a computer at home since '78, dad brought home an Apple II when they first came out, I was programming in Basic and Pascal before 1980.... I know that we had a modem dialing in to BBS' in the mid 80's before I was in middle school even, but although I didn't know it at the time, ARPANET was running then, throught the 70's and 80's. Say, in, 86 or 87, I was configuring the TCP/IP switches on the PC's in the lab in high-school so we could post BBS notes then.

So, if you happened to be in Berkeley or some such place in the mid-80's, you very well could have been "on the 'net"....

[Leslie]

Oh, to answer the question.....

Example: the other day, I was trying to bleed the brakes in the Series. The bleeder screw snapped off. I didn't have one on-hand, but I ran out and grabbed an ez-out, and, it snapped off in the bleeder. At that point I figured it'd have to come out to the bridge to get it out, but I thought I'd check the other side, and its bleeder snapped, too. Being brakes, decided not to play around, grabbed the phone and called RN to see if they could get me a set the next day. I was too late for next day from them, it'd have been the following before I could have gotten them. So instead, I called BP, since they're several hours behind. Next morning, while I was working on some other things on the Rover, the UPS guy pulled up, and I started installing the new cylinders (I went ahead and got all four).

RN is fine. I still have catalogs from as far back as '98 that I reference (I don't think I have any older than that still); that's the thing I like about the old ones, is that it has the old LR part numbers. However, if I have sticker-shock when I look at the price on something, I'll quickly cross-reference to the other guys, see if it's something that's high across the board, or just anomalously high there.

I like BP too. I've had only one minor problem where I was charged regular price on a deal-of-the-day item, and they were going to credit me but it was awhile before they got around to it... it wasn't long before I needed something else, emailed them, and they sent whatever it was, as it and postage was about what the credit were. I've been happy w/ them. They'll have some things that RN doesn't (like replacement SIII serial number plates), but, usually, they've got the same thing as RN for a comparable price.

RDS, I've gotten a lot of stuff from Uncle George, but not directly, usually via my buddy David, who was on the phone w/ him almost daily. I need to call him, he sometimes has some of those unobtainium things that RN doesn't have, and often at surprisingly nice prices.

Wise Owl, I've gotten a few bits from Ray that I happened to catch on sale, no problem... haven't dealt w/ since the change in ownership, but don't think I'd hesitate to.

Rovah Farm, haven't had the pleasure yet, but have heard nothing but good things about Trevor.

DAP, I've used for several oddities that they had at killer prices, like an NOS washer bottle for my SIII, etc. etc,

AB, used to get the catalogs, but, as time has passed, it seemed they were more interested in upscaling on coiler trinket/accessories, and less on Series running parts, so, I don't bother anymore.

Have to admit, I've started to shop a little bit more w/ alternates for other British makes, like Victoria British, Moss, Motorhead, etc.,

TLR, again, I've gotten some bits from him via David, like a replacement diff for the Disco, etc.

I used to use Nathan Crabtree a lot, at least for Disco stuff, but haven't as much. I like Nathan a lot, he usually has really good prices, I've just been focusing on the Series again, the Disco is biding its time now....

One of my favorites is Will Tillery, Roverguy, he parts out a lot of coilers, so if you need something for a Disco or a Rangie, definitely check w/ him, he's gotten me many parts thus far, and many more to come in the future, I'm sure.

FWIW......

[Linus Tremaine]

Trevor at Rovah Farm has been very helpful to me. His prices are often good as well. He works well over email and you can just send him a request for pricing on a list of parts and he emails you back.

[scott]

didn't al gore invent the internet right after he built the first series?

[TeriAnn]

You mean you were using BBS?
I'm sorry but I don't think the internet was around in 86. BBS's yes. Internet, no.
Nope. Honest to goodness internet (TCP/IP protocol) and and I was subscribed to an honest to goodness british cars email list in 1986. I was using a UNIX based terminal and a vi editor. My first email address was twakeman@hplabs.com In the mid 1980's the net was rapidly being installed in universities and computer tech companies. The government had been running on the first version of the internet called ARPANET. I spent my lunch times cruising newsgroups on USENET.

You could pretty much assume that anyone you met on the net was on a UNIX terminal, had at least one college degree in a technical field or was an upper division student, and was either at a university or a tech company. To get online, you had to at least be able to navigate your way through a UNIX shell language and use a arcane UNIX editor.

twakeman@hplabs.com 1985 - 1990
twakeman@apple.com 1990 through 1998
twakeman@cruzers.com 1997 through 2005
twakeman@razzolink.com 2005 through present

[jp-]

Well I guess us dumbasses were using BBS's until the 90's. :)

Maybe they ruined it when they let everybody in? :confused:

[TeriAnn]

http://www.tjwakeman.net/hijacked.gif


Maybe they ruined it when they let everybody in? :confused:
The transition did take a little getting used to. Used to be you could assume a minimum of one university degree in a tech or science field from anyone you talked to. A certain minimal level for education and intelligence was a given. One could make a lot of assumptions communicating within a homogeneous group.

These days you don't know if you are chatting with a PHD research physicist or a 7 year old goat herder. Strange at first but I think it is very good because people are coming from a large verity of viewpoints and backgrounds with very valid different ideas. Its been fascinating watching the net evolve from a homogeneous techie communication toy to a near universal part of modern society. As an agent for change I think it is still in its infancy, much like phones at the dawn of the 1900's.

Just be thankful you don't need to use a UNIX line editor inside a UNIX shell. I certainly am!

[Leslie]

Just be thankful you don't need to use a UNIX line editor inside a UNIX shell. I certainly am!


I dunno.... sometimes I still go to dos-shells for commands, just to see if I can remember them anymore (it's been ages since I've argued the X-Windows-versus Open-Windows for Sparcstations)... ArcGIS and AutoCad still keep command line windows.... heck, I think I still have a copy of Seismic Unix on a CD somewhere, had to run a UNIX emulator to run it on the PC's in the computer lab...

And w/ all this fun, I've never gotten around to messin' w/ Linux.....

[alaskajosh]

Based on the feedback I've gotten here and the experience I've had with my first several orders I believe I will go first to RN for my parts needs.

I had another excellent experience with them today (Thanks Arthur).

I could see using some of the smaller non-mainstream outfits for hard-to-find or used parts on occasion.

It appears to me that RN works to be an asset to the Rover community, not just a parts store. If they are more expensive (and I don't know that they really are) it's probably worth it. I hope, for our sake, that their business thrives for years to come.

[yorker]

I've always been pleased with RN, Things may cost more but where I live I can often get the part the next day via UPS if I order early enough in the day. I've never had an order screwed up and the parts have thus far all been quality. Right now I use RN primarily when I need something right and right now. If I have time to wait I may shop around and look for a better price. So far they have been frustration free and I really appreciate that.

AB is closer but I have to pay NYS Sales tax on top of the shipping, they have sold me substandard crap, have back ordered stuff without notice and they seem to take a more lax approach to shipping. I've waited over a week for them to ship something that was supposedly in stock right when I called the order in.

Trevor at Rovah Farm has been awesome- if I need something he doesn't have he'll go well out of his way to secure it, and at a great price. Recently he got me a set of Automec brake lines for an '89 RRC- no one else had them nor was willing to get them.

DAP-Meh. I'll probably never order from them again. They used to have a nice Stainless Steel gas tank but they apparently stopped selling them. Now it is all Bearmach stuff and it can often be had cheaper elsewhere.

I've used the Land Rover Orphanage- they were great. Shipping can be a bitch but if you plan ahead you'll come out ok.

Kellog- no way I'll deal with him again.

BP- I haven't ordered from them since they dropped the print catalog.

I've started buying some used stuff off from UK forums- you can run across some neat stuff at a great price over there, sometimes the same is true for eBay.UK.

I bought some stuff from Discotech.ca- their pricing was great- their packing and service was complete crap. They shipped a head in a plastic toolbox which the shippers promptly smashed, loose bolts in the package gashed up the surface of the head and it required resurfacing. They offered no compensation or remedy...

[BackInA88]

Trevor at Rovah Farm has been awesome- if I need something he doesn't have he'll go well out of his way to secure it, and at a great price.

Kellog- no way I'll deal with him again....

Ditto in regards to Rovah Farm, Trevor has been great!!:thumb-up: :thumb-up:
I met him a couple weeks ago on my 3000 mile trip around New England in my 88.
He flagged me down on the highway while I was heading south thru Maine.
Even took the wife and I on a little off road excursion.
Check out his price for hood bumpers, for at the bulkhead, than the others! I bought a set.:D


Kellog???:confused:


Cheers,
Steve

[Leslie]

Kellog???:confused:



Charles Kellogg, British Northwest. He usually has some things that are rare as hen's teeth. However, he expects to be well compensated for such.


I tried for a week to get a price on something he had, but it was pretty much the attitude that "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it", and I ended up doing better off elsewhere, just had to be patient to find it.


I've heard a nickname used for him a time or two, but, I won't repeat it here. (Not bad, funny actually, but, I don't like speaking ill of people, you never know when you might end up burning a bridge that you need to later cross.....).


FWIW.....

[alaskajosh]

Oh yeah, Charles. I certainly don't have anything bad to say about him at all. I had a very pleasant chat with him one afternoon.

He's catering to a different set I gathered... maybe the Ultra-Wealthy who, on a lark, get a wild hair to have an all original old Land Rover to go in their six car garage. They may drive it to the country club as a nostalgia thing or show their friends how quaint it is while sipping martinis. Price is no object.
That's not me.

And an almost religious fervor for the original. Then I'm a Land Rover heretic because, while I like staying true to the original aesthetic and spirit, I'm using this thing. Good things didn't end the year my car came off the line and "good things" certainly happened outside of Solihill. If power steering, brighter headlights, upgraded suspension, power plant, etc. enhance my experience as a user then I don't feel like I'm RUINING to car to do it.

He's a good guy, no doubt. He's got his "thing".. I've got mine. I can't (don't care to) afford his "thing".

And, for that matter, am a little turned off by the attitude.

[JimCT]

RN is always the go to place. DAP has allot of grey market RR stuff and good prices on allot of things, nice folks too. I find the way the prices are set up on the BP site difficult, I hate having to look one place for the part and another to see what the price is, makes it too difficult.

[alaskajosh]

I find the way the prices are set up on the BP site difficult, I hate having to look one place for the part and another to see what the price is, makes it too difficult.

Abso-damn-lutely.

[singingcamel]

I will have to say Rovers North.:thumb-up:
I've been dealing with them since the mid 70's. when their catalog was a stapled flip sheet typed.i still have some of those old catalog by the way.
i've delt with dap when AL TOLCI had it,no comment here ,british pacific i think over charges for their parts and they are alot of after market parts that i feel are over priced..
alantic british, personally i could live without them..never buy from them and there catalog sucks.
rovers down south ,i think the guy has a personality defect and seems to be the most unhappy guy i've ever talked to.needs to be on a anti depressant.
rovers north has been my standbuy for years and when i need hard to find parts or defective parts they have gone above and beyond for me..
you get what you pay for!!!:thumb-up:
the old catalogs are really good for part #'s and resource.
only complaint i have is the shpg. charges a bit on the high side...

[msggunny]

Ahh,

I just go down to Advance and order my parts.

O, wait thats impossible.

I shop around and use whom ever has the best mix of price and quailty. Since i do 90% of my ordering via the internet i dont have to deal with customer service much, but when i do i have had the following experiences:

RN: Great knowledge and help. I used them when i was in Africa and called them several times.

AB: Same, but i rarely buy from them because of their prices.

RDS: He is curt, but helpfully. I have ordered a decent amount from him, but because its mostly over the phone, i go elsewhere due to convience (internet)

BP: Never ordered from them, one time i did talk to them they were a bit on the a-hole side.

Wise Owl: Great service, shipping for me sucks though.

Pangolin: Great products, but ike still owes me a tee shirt.

RovaFarm: havent ordered, but the guy is great on the phone.

TLR: Awesome guy, good selection, good prices.

DAP: Usually my #1 due to price and customer service.

All have their pros and cons, i prefer DAP and RN due to the convience of their internet ordering service and past history i have had with them.

[greenmeanie]

I should add another British supplier for the EX-MOD crowd.

P.A. Blanchards.
He knows his stuff, the prices are fair, orders are filled accurately and in a timely fashion and they have stuff for old military Landies that you didn't even know existed. Now they have a well sorted web site so it makes ordering from another continent convenient.

For the SU or ZS carb folk Joe Curto in NY is a great source of parts.

I'm suprised about the comments about BP. To be honest I have yet to have a problem with talking to any of the suppliers other than Paddocks but I detailed that earlier.

Cheers
Gregor

[TedW]

You get what you pay for - I have always been completely satisfied with RN products. Genuine Land-Rover parts really are best, and IMO their ProLine bits are great for the money. I have a binder of RN receipts going back to 1991, along with RN catalogs dating back to the same, which I will not throw away. One for every bathroom plus the garage, workshop, desk at the office, etc.
I think that British Pacific made a mistake by dropping their printed catalog. You need to be top of mind when the customer wants to order - I always check out the RN book when I'm considering a purchase - can't do that with BP - not always easy to peruse their on-line catalog, unlike Rovers North.
I also think Al Tocci at DAP is terrific, and they have great stuff. And I think every Series Rover on the planet should have Rocky Mountain extruded aluminum door tops, plus their nifty aluminum transfer case cover with the cooling fins.
In closing: Les at Rovers North is The Man.

[Momo]

I gotta say I am surprised by the negative comments on British Pacific. I've been dealing with them since '97 and have only had two problems, one was the wrong part sent (immediately corrected) and one was a defective part out of the box (immediately exchanged).

They even used to ship me stuff via USPS even though it's more work for them.

I will say that I have lived within 30 minutes drive of BP for about 8 years, so I know them pretty well.

One of their parts guys is kind of hard to read over the phone, and I can see why someone might think he's being unfriendly. In reality he's just kind of shy and a man of few words.
I think the decision to discontinue BP's catalog was based on the dynamic uncertainty of Series parts availability and cost vs. benefit. The new website is pretty good. I think TerriAnn keeps a separate pop-up for the price because prices change often. Remember there is a currency conversion.


I've had only one poor experience with RN. The guy on the other end interrupted me and tried to talk over me as I explained what I needed. Pretty bad, but I think he was watching the clock as it was late in the work day. I will still order from RN...why grudge them because of one kook?

Also, I love our hosts' website and catalog(= branding and marketing) and all the extras they provide. But, I also recognize that they must pass the cost on to me as a customer. I would do the same were I the boss. RN's marketing and branding is about as professional as it gets in their industry and I admire Mark's hard work. he's built an iconic company.

DAP has been great to me, no frills, helpful service.

Ike (Pangolin)- a bit of an iconoclast, but he bleeds Series rigs and he's honset and talented.

AB- they are after the coiler crowd, I don't bother.

RDS- George is a character, but an honest character.

Wise Owl- Well, they used to be good till Ray sold out. I think the new guys are disorganized as hell and over their heads.

Rocky Mountain- Ray is awesome. Always top notch service, parts and advice.

Paddocks- UK parts house. So-so. Don't order anything cosmetic, interior,
or expect any durability in general. Typical aloof English customer service.
The English aren't very fond of us in the first place so it puts one at a disadvantage. In fact I think the English don't like anyone, even themselves.

[zayante]

I agree with the consensus opinions here. I'd add that John Craddock Ltd. has been a good source of "unobtainium" parts. It helps to know the LR part numbers when searching, though.

[TedW]

I visited Paddock once when in England (got my soft top and hoopset there - pretty funny when I wheeled this huge LR box up to check-in at Virgin Atlantic in Gatwick). Nice enough in person and good quality stuff. However, I have to agree with the comment above about British customer service. Not much of a priority for them, I guess.
I also went to the Land Rover Supermarket outside Liverpool. You wheel a shopping cart up and down the aisles just like at your local Safeway / Publix / Piggly Wiggly. They have their own brand of parts. However, I bought all new stuff there to rebuild my swivels and, Just like Mark Letourney warns us in his catalog, some of it didn't fit. The king pins were about 1/4" too long. I ended up using my old ones instead. And the door tops I bought rusted out in no time flat, even with an up-front Waxoyl treatment.
I have bought a number of small parts from Land-Rover Orphanage on ebay. They are great, and delivery has been super fast (a week or so). But you get creamed on shipping if it's anything bigger than a tail light.

[TeriAnn]

I think TeriAnn keeps a separate pop-up for the price because prices change often. Remember there is a currency conversion.

There are 2 reasons for the pop up price window.

#1 is as you mentioned. BP tries to be the low price US based vendor for genuine Land Rover, OEM and aftermarket parts.The margin is deliberately kept low and the company runs lean. What this means is that as new shipments come in the price is adjusted by the actual landed cost and currency exchange rate at time of their purchase. The price list database is uploaded at least monthly to reflect procurement costs. If this were not done then BP would have to build in an extra margin padding into the prices. BP decided that people prefer low prices to paper catalogues. But from this discussion it appears that some people don't mind higher prices in order to have a paper catalogue.

#2 reason for a pop up price window and not a standard on line store is that not all parts lend themselves well to standard on line store formats and it is a pain to try and find the part you need using standard store search engines. I have all the accessories and off road gear in regular html pages just so that I have the freedom to add pictures and descriptions that can better help a customer figure out if this is the part they went.

I don't know about you guys but I've had the devil's own time trying to find parts in traditional online store layouts. It costs a lot of money to photograph inventory and to write good descriptions. Most Land Rover parts vendors who use an internet store package have few pictures and lousy or no descriptions. I tried to buy parts from UK internet stores a bunch of times & have basically given up on them because I could not find most of the parts I was looking for or wasn't sure if what I found was the right part.

BP currently has the accessories, off road gear and fast moving service parts on regular html pages. When you can click on part number the pop up price window displays the current price. The regular parts are listed on pdf pages which are virtual paper catalogue pages. It was the best price/ performance/ ease of use compromise we could come up with.

The disadvantages that I have found is that it is a pain to have to type a part number into a different window to get a price and that you have to print the current catalogue on your own printer if you want a paper copy.

Any solution any company comes up with costs money to implement and maintain. That cost along with all the other operational costs are passed on to the customer as part of the purchase cost. It is all a compromise based upon what management feels the customer is most receptive to, how best to reach the customer and close a sale and the costs of doing business. Each company has a slightly different take on the best combination and each customer has different combinations of preferences.

No one company will ever be the best for everyone. Customer feedback is valuable, keep it coming.

[greenmeanie]

What you have to understand about the parts places in the UK is that to us it is basicaly an old farmer's truck or a working vehicle much like an old Chevy/ford pickup and not so much of a classic car 'toy' as it appears to be in the US. As such the UK owners generally have a very heavy emphasis on cost and, for the most part, couldn't care less about how nice the service is as long as the parts are cheap.

As my local Landy indy in the UK used to say "If you want to have a great service experience go and buy something new and shiny and go to the dealership." Of course, this has been cleaned up considerably from the full quote.

Cheers
Gregor

[jp-]

I dunno.... sometimes I still go to dos-shells for commands, just to see if I can remember them anymore (it's been ages since I've argued the X-Windows-versus Open-Windows for Sparcstations)... ArcGIS and AutoCad still keep command line windows.... heck, I think I still have a copy of Seismic Unix on a CD somewhere, had to run a UNIX emulator to run it on the PC's in the computer lab...

And w/ all this fun, I've never gotten around to messin' w/ Linux.....

Dos is easy. For a list of commands just type "help." One Dos command that doesn't show up on the list though is "mem." Try it.

AutoCAD command line is super handy. Even in mechanical desktop, they eliminated some of the icons, but the old commands still work if you can't find the button.:thumb-up:

[jp-]

Abso-damn-lutely.

I want to second that.

In this day and age, you'd think it would be easy to combine the two. What dumb-asses.

If your prices are the best, don't be shy, display them. If on the other hand, they are high, don't hide them; nobody likes a sneek and we'll find out anyway.

[yorker]

FWIW I don't know of any of my friends who order from BP either simply because of the lack of a paper catalog. A lot of Rover nuts aren't even online- I know that might seem strange in today's day and age but a surprising # aren't online at least on a regular basis. Besides the lack of a physical catalog means less reading material on the throne- another drawback that I don't think anyone has mentioned. ;)

I'd rather pay $5 for a catalog than have to resort to an online catalog, and I'm on the net all the time. It is like reading an E-book, perhaps I am too traditional but I hate that too.

[TeriAnn]

In this day and age, you'd think it would be easy to combine the two. What dumb-asses.

I'm sorry you find me to be such a dumb-ass. It wasn't my intention to be one.

Combining the two requires a back end database that doesn't exist and an inventory software package that can talk to a server. None of which BP has. Alas I'm just a dumb ass web designer and not a database or a server side programmer.

My failings are my fault and not BP's.

My apologies

[scott]

gee i don't know about dumbasses, but i think bp's site isn't the easiest and as a management analyst, not a programer not a web designer, just a dumbass mgmgt analyst (heck i even got ass in my title) i think up work arounds, like open 2 internet explore windows one for their prices list one for their parts and just toggle between the two.

[BackInA88]

[quote=yorker] Besides the lack of a physical catalog means less reading material on the throne- another drawback that I don't think anyone has mentioned. ;)

OH YEAH!!! It's taken the place of the Sears Christmas Wish Book!!!!!!
(or old Playboy's depending on what age we're talking about;))

[BackInA88]

gee i don't know about dumbasses, but i think bp's site isn't the easiest and as a management analyst, not a programer not a web designer, just a dumbass mgmgt analyst (heck i even got ass in my title) i think up work arounds, like open 2 internet explore windows one for their prices list one for their parts and just toggle between the two.

As long as you have a high speed connection (I do), some of those PDF's are big, I can imagine it being a real pain.
You'd have time to go to the throne and check out a paper catalog and place an order (thanks yorker:p ) in the time it would take to load.:eek:



.

[jp-]

I'm sorry you find me to be such a dumb-ass. It wasn't my intention to be one.

Combining the two requires a back end database that doesn't exist and an inventory software package that can talk to a server. None of which BP has. Alas I'm just a dumb ass web designer and not a database or a server side programmer.

My failings are my fault and not BP's.

My apologies

That wasn't a personal attack, just my opinion on a very bad decision by BP management. This is a problem that has turned many customers away and should have been fixed years ago. If RN can do it, why can't you? All you have to do is put a disclaimer in the front of the catalog that says, "Some prices subject to change without notice."

Beyond that, we know that a price list does exist. Because every time you call, they are able to rattle off the prices pretty quick. Maybe they have them memorized, but I doubt it.

If you personally are unable to do it, find someone that can. I see this everyday at work, someone gives up because they can't do something. Believe me, if I am stuck on a problem, I'll find someone with an answer.

[TeriAnn]

I'd rather pay $5 for a catalog than have to resort to an online catalog

You just don't get it do you.

BP recently estimated that sending a SINGLE page folded mailer just to customers who have purchased within the last 6 months would cost $10,000. The Series catalogue is 86 pages. All costs would be paid by the customer in the form of additional product margins plus an added margin would have to be factored in to cover any projected price & shipping costs for each part during the life of the paper catalogue.

Go back to an earlier posting by someone else:
Rovers North - CLUTCH SLAVE CYLINDER - SERIES IIA SKU:RNB599Price:$125.48

British Pacific - Part #:266694 Product:SLAVE CYLINDER IIA Price:$64.50 Thats almost a 50% saving

Both companies have access to the exact same selection of genuine Land Rover parts.

This alone should give you an idea of the kind of margins are needed to support paper catalogues and news letters. It isn't just $5.00 and you pay for it with each order.

BP listened to the large number of folks who state their #1 vendor selection criteria was price and their #2 was part quality and tries hard to provide both. If you lower your margins, something that takes up a lot of overhead costs has to go. Paper catalogues was the big overhead budget item that got sacrificed to make large margin cuts to meet customer's #1 stated reason for picking a vendor.


However, not everyone has the same preferences and if paper catalogues are that much more important than cheaper prices to you, go ahead and follow your preferences.

Personally I prefer to save my money for the fuel tank over paper catalogues and I also own a printer. I can print out catalogue pages if I need something to read in the bathroom.

[jp-]

TeriAnn,

Not sure if that post was for me or Yorker, but I am not against online catalogs. I'd just like to see the price next to the part I'm looking at.

As for the paper catalog, Yorker is correct, you could easily sell the catalog and print only as needed. The catalog doesn't need to be in color and they have high speed printers that could shoot out 86 pages very fast. $5 a copy would be about right. Just print it from the .pdf file, which you update regularly anyway.

Sometimes it hurts to be right so often...

[jp-]

Hell,

You could even give the catalog a part number and sell it just like any other part.

Might turn a tidy profit... I'd buy one.

[jp-]

Or,

"Buy $100 in parts and get a free catalog."

[TeriAnn]

Gray shapes circle just below the waters as triangular fins cut the surface


Beyond that, we know that a price list does exist. Because every time you call, they are able to rattle off the prices pretty quick. Maybe they have them memorized, but I doubt it.
Of course a price list exists! It is part of the company inventory and ordering software. The unfortunate thing it that the software package is very expensive and does everything well except talk to online databases.

But the price data can be run through another piece of software and transfered as text fields which allows it to be uploaded to a server.

You may have missed the fact that prices are currently available on line in 3 different ways.

1. The complete price list is available as a pdf file at the click of a button. You can see and print out the whole thing.

2. Pages in html format have price numbers that are links to the price lookup window. These include all the off road product pages, the accessory pages and the quick moving service parts pages.

Click on the part number and a small window pops up that contains the current price. Single click current price lookup.

3. Unfortunately Acrobat doesn't support javascript text buttons. You click on the price lookup button to the side of the web page to pull up the small price lookup page. Now comes the hard part that I don't like. You need to read the part number off the pdf page and type it into the price lookup form and click before you can see the price. Its a pain but better alternatives cost well into the four figures to implement and that means significantly higher parts prices to pay for the changes.

I've personally never met an online store software implementation that allows me to find parts easily and data entered into store software to describe the part does not instill confidence that I've fount the correct part. I just don't think the technology is there yet for good intelligent product selection based upon the customer's natural search methods.

I'm not going to recommend that BP toss out their expensive software package for one that plays well with sever side databases and then invest thousands of person hours to write product descriptions based upon todays store front technologies. I'm sure that puts me in your "dumb-ass" category but thats the way it goes.

I've seen lots of really crappy on line stores. I agree with you that a paper catalogue is still the quickest, most natural and easiest way to find a part. But it is also VERY expensive these days and would result in significant price increases.

The best two alternatives are to put all the parts into html pages with free form descriptions, multiple jpegs if needed, part numbers with single click current price lookup OR pdf pages.

I personally believe that free form html pages with good descriptions and single click current prices is the best way to go. But it has drawbacks. It is not easily printable into a paper catalogue. There is a high labour maintenance factor to keeping everything current and there are no BP employees who can properly create and edit html pages. They have always outsourced their web site.

PDF pages are very easily printed if you wish to have a paper copy. People at BP know how to create and upload pdf files. But they can take longer to download and it is a real pain in my book to look up prices. I personally don't like having pdf catalogue pages that do not includes prices. But including prices would double input time and significantly increase the likelihood of mistakes.

That is how the site handles prices and a bit of why they have chosen the pathways that they did. Their customers say low prices & high quality are #1. BP focuses on those at the cost of traditional overhead items such as paper catalogues. Price lists are available in the web site and there is single click current prices for off road gear, accessories & fast moving service parts. pdf catalogue pages are easy to keep current, any customer with a printer can easily print out the very latest catalogue but looking up the prices are a pain.

[TeriAnn]

Hell,

You could even give the catalog a part number and sell it just like any other part.

Might turn a tidy profit... I'd buy one.

Sounds like a business oppertunity. I have a printer and know how to print pdf files. Send me US$20 and I'll mail you a printed version of the BP catalogue.

[jp-]

$20? Too high.

Actually, I don't mind the online catalog so much; I just see a great deal of room for improvement.

And about buying the catalog, it must have both the price and part numbers / descriptions (together!). I know that I can go print out both, but I still have to look back and forth between the two. The whole idea is to offer a catalog with both.

[BackInA88]

I don't mind looking back in forth.
But I don't like looking for a price only to find it is not listed!:nono:
I understand the reason for both as the prices change, but to than to turn around and not have the prices for everything in the catalog, that I don't understand.

I wish that there were hyperlinks in the part number that link to a database with pop up window of the price like on the "Service Parts" page.:thumb-up:

But I have to say Wise Owl has the worst site buy far.:p

But than again I've never designed a web site, but I know the ones I like.:)

.

[giorgio]

Well, for some reason, I have not yet shopped British Pacific.

I have shopped Wise Owl, and their site takes some getting used to, I will admit, but you can find the price once you get the hang of it. It is not listed on the same page as the part, and you have to scroll through several pages of parts prices to find it.

I just visited British Pacific, to see what all of the brouhaha was about.

I am no Internet whiz kid, as I recently proved by stating that there was no Internet back in the mid 1980's

In less than five minutes, on my first visit, I got the hang of the organization of the site, located a clutch/brake fluid reservoir, and found the price. Pretty darned easy, if you ask me.

The Tech Info section looks like I need to return to visit, and print out some of the information contained therein.

I have a 1968 Series IIA NADA 109 Carawagon with the 2.6L engine, and it is hard to find much information on it.

[jp-]

Giorgio,

In all fairness, it really isn't too bad today.

There was a time that BP made it too much trouble, though.

Yeah, the tech section is pretty good.

[alaskajosh]

More kudos to RN: After a misunderstanding on the number of parts ordered Steve at RN rushed the part out, which was nice, but then followed up by phone a week later to make sure everything had worked out! This is outstanding service not often seen in any field.
Thanks!

[siii8873]

I have been doing a restoration of a SIII for 4 years. I have bought parts from a few different vendors. I have the following thoughts on the ones I've used
Rovers North - very good supplier, usually very good with any technical advise. They are great with supplying new available parts. I feel that they are not very aggresive in sourcing parts to replace NLA parts. This may be improving with the new Proline parts but my only experience with Proline was one part which I returned as it was not a good replacement.
Down South Rovers - good supplier with original parts. George has a good knowledge of rovers and can be very helpfull. One thing I like about DSR is that if he thinks there is a cheaper alternative or that you may not need a part he will say so. He has also supplied a few used parts that where not available elsewhere.

[LA3]

Of course, you must first get on Georges approved customer list.:D