custom rear bumpers?

[alaskajosh]

I think a bumper could be fabbed that offers more protection and practicality. Has anyone done one or seen one? I'd love pictures for some ideas.

The two shortcomings I see that need addressed are 1)no protection from rear impacts (backing into trees) and 2)no protection for the rear quarter panel of bodywork.

What I'm really thinking of is something with a slim'ish profile, smooth departure angle, integrates a step or ledge (like conventional bumpers), and, most importantly, extends body protection forward to the rear wheel well (this is a LWB).

My cross member is in good shape... but it's gotta' go.

[galen216]

Are you talking about a Series or a Rangie?

[LaneRover]

Since series Rovers have a 'bumper' (rear crossmember) that is an integral part of the chassis most people leave it as is. So, most likely you will not be replacing the rear crossmember but adding to it.

Some folks have definitely enhanced their rear protection by fabricating items that bolt into the factory provided 'grab handle' holes. I believe that someone out there might even sell something that also goes forward and protects the body work behind the rear wheels.

Brent

[alaskajosh]

My cross member is in good shape... but it's gotta' go.

Yes, I'm talking about cutting out the RCM and putting a bumper as I described in it's place. Probably bolted, not welded, to the frame.

Thanks

[LaneRover]

Well, I am sure that everyone else will agree with me about not cutting out the rear crossmember as it is part of the frame. In my opinion you would be much better off making modifications to the existing rear cross member.

If you do cut it out and build something bigger and stronger it would have to be welded back on for the chassis to retain its strength. If you have experience with this sort of thing then go for it and let us know what you come up with. If you don't then start by building stuff that can be added to what is there and bolted on and off.

Brent

[leafsprung]

Its been done. Rear bumper, custom rear cross and rear corner protectors. If your crossmember is in good shape, Id just make corner protectors or a bumper. What are you gaining by cutting it off? Just itching to back into trees. Its more work for no real benefit.

[jp-]

I agree with the others, do not cut off the rear crossmember. You need it for the strength of the frame.

There is a problem with the rear crossmember though, and that is the tendency of the ends to bend in when hit. Both my 88" and 109" SW had bent ends. My solution was to brace the two outer ends with strong angle (or C-channel) welded back to the frame. I did this on both frames before having them galvanized. Next, I made up some custom rear "bumperettes" out of old muffler pieces and 1/8" plate. These extend at least 6" from the frame ends where the original grab handles only come out maybe 3". My intention was to make them weak enough that they collapse when hit, thereby saving my frame ends.

[jp-]

Here's a photo.

They are still strong enough to stand on though.

[TSR53]

<off topic>

JP- you been doing burnouts lately? That rear tire is looking mighty slick... :sly:

<back on topic...>

[jp-]

<off topic>

JP- you been doing burnouts lately? That rear tire is looking mighty slick... :sly:

<back on topic...>

Those were the original tires on it when I got it. At that point, I just wanted to get it out into the sun and that was all I had. They have been replaced.

Interestingly, I did put 1000 miles on them with no problems at all. I gave them to another Rover owner who needed them for an 88" that had no rims. That got it off the cinder blocks, at least.

[Jim-ME]

In my opinion I totally agree with not removing the rear crossmember. Try Pangolin 4X4 http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/products/products.html
If Ike will make it then you will have a work of art that will more than do the job. Until then learn where your rear crossmember is and don't hit anything.
Jim

[alaskajosh]

Speaking of Pangolin-- this picture shows almost exactly what I was thinking. And it's definately there in place of the RCM.
http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/products/softopmain.jpg

The only think I'd add (if this one doesn't have it.. it may and I can't see) is to wrap it forward to the wheel wells... tougher on a LWB of course.

[LaneRover]

Exactly, it may be there in place of the RCM and if it is I will bet you $100 that it is welded in place and not bolted on.

If it is there IN ADDITION to the RCM then it may be bolted on.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't replace the RCM with something stouter. I am saying that you can't cut that off and then just bolt something else on because you will lose the strength. No matter what you have to weld some sort of strengthening piece to tie the frame rails together at the end.

Brent

[LaneRover]

If you scroll down on the page where you got the Pangolin bumper picture you will see an example of a piece they made that protects the bodywork, and also sticks out from further back from the RCM. Unless there is a strengthening piece that I don't see you may still have the problems with bending the ends of the RCM that JP mentioned.

Brent

[alaskajosh]

Well Lane, I guess wouldn't hesitate to take you up on that bet..

My curiousity (concerning the weld vs. bolt) got the better of me and I called a civil engineering friend. He said--first and foremost-- that in this application it wouldn't matter too much either way because the forces being generated in this area (the end of the frame rails) and in this application just aren't that great. Properly done (of course) a bolted on cross member could easily handle it.

I was satisfied with this response but academicly I wondered further about the strength of the Land Rover's welded connection to the RCM vs. a bolted on application... Could the same strength be achieved with bolts?

He said the same strength could certainly be achieved and exceeded and went on to describe how, also citing examples in the construction world where this applied.

I wouldn't be suprised if Pangolin reached some of the same conclusions and opted to bolt on that rear bumper pictured.

It's fun to talk about though.. this kind of stuff fascinates me.

[LaneRover]

Oh, I am sure that you could use bolts - in some fashion to get the same strength.. Just as with enough dental floss you could tie something on with the same strength.

I am not saying that you shouldn't make an awesome rear crossmember/bumper. I think that it would be neat if you did. But know what you are getting yourself into. I also think that just bolting it on is a bad idea. Bolts may offer the same or greater strength - at the moment.

If you find out that the Pangolin bumper in the picture is:
(1) bolted on in place of the RCM
(2) no other piece is welded in to strengthen the chassis
(3) It is not bolted to or around the original RCM that is still in place

Then I would be happy to pay you $100.00. I offered up the bet and if you want to take it then please go ahead, I won't welch.

Brent

[alaskajosh]

haha.. you're a good guy Brent. I'm not much of a betting person. In this case it's just fun to think/talk about. I'll give 'em a call, though, and ask how they did it, what they ran into, etc.

I don't care either way on fastening.. If I can manage to weld a cool bumper I imagine I could weld it to the frame too. Hell, it would probably be easier. I was just thinking of convenience of future modifications, repairs, modularity, whatever.

I appreciate your thoughts!

[LaneRover]

No worries, I am usually not a betting man either but since I was the one who put it out there...

It can be very fascinating figuring out how things are done - or figuring out why some company didn't do it the right way! A friend of mine is doing up a special Land-Rover badge for me and he called me because he wanted to explain how they stamped the badges because it was a process that he had heard of but never actually seen. If you look at the aluminum badge on a series Rover the "Land-Rover" is stamped out but is not crisp, the letters are a bit rounded. If you turn it over the indentations on the back are very crisp and distinct. Basically he said that they only used a one sided die and stamped the pieces into rubber. It would make sense as Rover thought of this as a 'stop-gap' product at first and they wanted to spend as little as possible in tooling.

Definitely let us know what you decide to do in regards with beefing up your RCM. We definitely like to see what everyone is doing.

We could even have a new section and call it:

"One person's overkill is another person's just enough"

Brent

[jp-]

We could even have a new section and call it:

"One person's overkill is another person's just enough"

Brent


I like that!

But seriously, Alaska, the RCM really isn't the weakest part of the frame, to me it's the front frame horns.

If you're that concerned about it, maybe you should just have a new frame made up out of 3/16" or 1/4" steel instead of the standard 1/8". It has been done. Guy in Hawaii?? I think.

Then you'd have no need for a stronger RCM. It wouldn't give no matter what.

[Donnie]

If you R seeking protection in case that U get rear-ended because UR vehicle is slow. Or you may be thinking about pulling someone with a Rope/chain : engineering data suggests bolting to the frame, not welding. RE, the bolts will sheer off if an impact should occur, rather than causeing extensive damage to the frame which if welded is now an integral part of the structure..Grade 2 bolts are softest and will provide a fair amt of sheer resistance, although not rec. for auto. use..5 is stronger, and grade 8 is tough, may as well weld if using grade 8..just my 2 cents worth....Donnie

[jp-]

...which if welded is now an integral part of the structure...

Integral is good. I like integral.

It makes me sleep better at night.