ebay, interesting

[yank]

Item number: 220178032026

I am a little suprised someone would change this from its original state!

[Bostonian1976]

how awesome is that! here's a link for the lazy...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D 220178032026%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1&item=220178032026

[jp-]

Item number: 220178032026

I am a little suprised someone would change this from its original state!


Me too. It appears that he was building it to actually drive it, and just got in over his head.

Very, very nice vehicle. 109 AP's are my favorites. With the mods it would probably be a great driver.

[BackInA88]

It was being built to drive the wheels off!!

"The 'Drive Around the World' organization planned to use this vehicle for the 2003/5 LONGITUDE Expedition--a global drive-a-thon benefitting Parkinson's Disease, however at the conclusion of the restoration Land Rover sponsored the expedition with newer vehicles. "

Took this right out of the vehicle discription.


Steve

[rovertek]

looks like they borrowed a wind screen from an austin champ? 50k invested, i dont feel so bad now.....

[leafsprung]

thats the original windshield

[rovertek]

i was speaking of when the conversion was done.....

[leafsprung]

doesnt look anything like a champ windshield. More similar to a gypsy, but gypsy has a vent at the bottom.

[jp-]

Did you notice that it says the underside of the hood was left alone, but in the paint prep shot, you can clearly see them sanding the underside of the hood.

[rovertek]

your right it is an austin gypsy( the civilian model) wind screen, they were built in the same facility as the land rover while owned by british leyland in the mid 60's.....

[TeriAnn]

looks like they borrowed a wind screen from an austin champ? 50k invested, i dont feel so bad now.....

It is the original factory windscreen.

[TeriAnn]

Me too. It appears that he was building it to actually drive it, and just got in over his head.

I know the vehicle and have turned a wrench on it. I also closely inspected the APGP in the Dunsfield collection. I know whats stock to Nick's APGP and what's not. He and I spent hours discussing the mods for the trip. The changes are all "bolt on" and can be replaced by bolt off. Nick did not get in over his head, he was rebuilding that Land Rover to be seriously used on a trip around the world. I mean how many folks get bad mouthed for adding parabolic springs to a Land Rover.

The vehicle was rebuilt to go around the world. The length of Central & South America, the jungles of New Guinea and Malaysia, the open lands of Australia, Mongolia and Siberia. It is a Land Rover, designed to be used and to go places.

A Salisbury & ARBs could come in real handy for those areas. The Two Dormobiles that the APGP was to travel with had front disc brakes, ARBs, Series III dual master brake cylinders, Salisbury & parabolics. Adding these to the APGP reduced the weight & volume of spares they would need to carry.

All that stuff is bolt on. So I gather that some folks think 60's Land Rovers should never have a Salisbury fitted or parabolic springs or Series III Land Rover dual brake upgrades are big no-nos. And heaven forbid if someone has the shear gall to affront others by installing a front disk brake conversion.

This APGP is set up to go where no APGP has ever gone, and it is all bolt on bolt off stuff if anyone wants to downgrade to factory stock.

[leafsprung]

your right it is an austin gypsy( the civilian model) wind screen, they were built in the same facility as the land rover while owned by british leyland in the mid 60's.....

Austin stopped making the gipsy in 1968, the same year rover was absorbed by BMC. I dont think the competing marques were ever built in the same factory.

[leafsprung]

it is all bolt on bolt off stuff if anyone wants to downgrade to factory stock.

Im all for cutting up a land rover now and then for practical reasons, but thats a pretty rare one to mess with, esp since it was mostly stock previously. The sub standard cut on the fender for the dual brakes, the corresponding cut on the firewall to accomidate the tower, the lame paint job, muffler dirrectly over the differential. With all the changes, it would make it a pain to bring it back to original condition. Which is about the only thing an APGP is good for (being a collectors item).



The vehicle was rebuilt to go around the world. The length of Central & South America, the jungles of New Guinea and Malaysia, the open lands of Australia, Mongolia and Siberia.

Right, built to go to siberia, with that ill fitting soft top and no heater. No doors, bar grip tires . . .cmon. Its a poor choice for an expedition vehicle anyway. Im by no means a purist but that one should have been left alone.

[TeriAnn]

Im all for cutting up a land rover now and then for practical reasons, but thats a pretty rare one to mess with, esp since it was mostly stock previously. The sub standard cut on the fender for the dual brakes, the corresponding cut on the firewall to accomidate the tower, the lame paint job, muffler dirrectly over the differential. With all the changes, it would make it a pain to bring it back to original condition. Which is about the only thing an APGP is good for (being a collectors item).

That "substandard cut" was a minimal cut for clearance. But who really cares? The front wing panels are standard SIIA military spec wing panels. I believe the front right outer panel currently on the vehicle is a new Genuine LR panel.

If you really don't like the idea of dual brakes you could just buy a new factory SIIA inner wing panel and bolt it on. As far as the cut in the bulkhead for the tower clearance? I'm sure someone somewhere has perfected the art of welding sheet metal. I sure had enough rusted panels sections in my Triumph TR3 cut out with new metal welded in place to know. Have you ever replaced an inner wing panel? It is an easy job. I replaced an inner panel and both outer wing panels with new genuine Land Rover body panels last year. A very easy project.

That "lame paint job" was a colour carefully mixed to match the original colour. Body panels were removed to be painted individually, galvanized trim was removed for regalvinizing and replaced after the new paint.

What's lame about the paint job? Very few of us ever go through the trouble of disassembling the body, removing galvanized bits professional prep and careful colour matching before having our Land Rovers professionally painted. When I repainted my Land Rover I removed the entire front clip, doors roof, tailgate, seats, all interior pieces, instrument panel and scrunched the wiring together out of the way to have it painted. I thought I did a good job but it was nowhere as good as the paint job done on the APGP.

It is hard to tell from the picture but the muffler is actually just behind the rear diff. And don't forget the APGP's exhaust was plumbed differently than other LRs because the rear propeller had to be s***** through and the rear body panels and frame is different. I'm not positive but I think the exhaust plumbing follows the stock routing.

And what do you mean an APGP is only fit for a museum display? Have you ever driven one? I've driven that one. Its a Series Land Rover, a bit wider bodied, a bit boat shaped behind the bulkhead but it is still a long wheel base Series Land Rover. The rear departure angle is worse and it is closer in width to a full size American pickup but it with those exceptions it will go anyplace a 109 will go. Even the APGP in the Dunsfeld collection goes off road and for swims. I witnessed such an event with that APGP.

A pain to bring it back into original spec? Have you ever done much work on a Series rig? Swapping an inner wing with an new one with correct spec from Land Rover or P.A. Blanchards, welding a sheet metal panel over a couple inches of slot depth (the tower covers this anyway so there is no way to tell the slot has been cut), replacing the SIII master cylinder & tower with an older one, throwing away those pesky ARB diffs and that Salisbury. Unbolting parabolic springs and installing semi elliptical springs is not all that difficult a project. The front disc brake conversion is bolt on to the stock swivel housing. You could certainly unbolt them and bolt on a set of 109 front drum brakes if you wish. It takes about the same amount of time as doing a front brake job and repainting the back plate. But that would mean no brakes coming out of the water until the shoes dried. Having front disc brakes allows you to have brakes right out of the water. I consider that to be a big safety upgrade.

Why do you hate this Land Rover so much that you don't think it should be driven? Why do you hate the idea of someone making easily reversible changes to a Land Rover to allow it to better carry out a mission? Its not your rig, I doubt if you will ever own it or drive it. So why the beef? Did Nick offend you somehow?

I feel compelled to defend the vehicle beacause I have a warm spot in my heart for every Land Rover I've turned a wrench on and have considered Nick to be a friend for a decade plus. I personally know the vehicle, I've driven it, turned a wrench on it, had long discussions with the owner about which reversable modifications would be best for the around the world trip and would minimize the weight and volume of spares that needed to come along.

Why the need to badmouth this APGP and Nick's efforts?

[TeriAnn]

Did you notice that it says the underside of the hood was left alone, but in the paint prep shot, you can clearly see them sanding the underside of the hood.

Look again. They are applying masking tape, not sanding.

[TeriAnn]

Right, built to go to siberia, with that ill fitting soft top and no heater. No doors, bar grip tires . . .cmon. Its a poor choice for an expedition vehicle anyway. Im by no means a purist but that one should have been left alone.

That is the stock soft top style. It is a boat. There are no doors that open in the sides below the waterline. There is a snap in canvas side curtain instead of a metal side curtain. The vehicle was scheduled to have an espacher propane heater like the two Dormobiles have. The heater didn't get installed because Nick got Land Rover factory sponsorship on the condition that all the Series vehicles stay behind and that they only take Land Rover reconditioned Discoverys.

The Espacher heaters that Nick uses in the Dormies do a very good job of heating the vehicle interior.

Poor choice for an expedition vehicle? This is a vehicle designed by Land Rover specifically for use by the military in remote regions. A number of the acceptance tests were made in the Malaysian jungle. The problems with the vehicle were that the pontoons were too fragile for combat and once you throw the hoops, propeller related stuff and the three pontoons in the back there is not much space for anything else.

And you know, vehicle mix for an around the world trip was not your decision to make. The Dormobiles were to carry all the camping gear, the APGP most of the spares.

[4flattires]

One of the rules (there are many) is that you never sand in a paint booth. For the obvious reason of dust.

Jeff

[leafsprung]

Why do you hate this Land Rover so much that you don't think it should be driven?
I think you are putting words in my mouth here. I dont hate it, its a cool truck. It should be driven, but it should also be preserved. FWIW, I love modified and custom cars, but that doesnt mean I relish the idea of a ramjet 502 in a talbot lago. Its called discretion. For expedition use theres zero advantage over a standard 3 door and lots of disadvantages, why mess with a rare truck?

-Ike

[Momo]

For expedition use theres zero advantage over a standard 3 door and lots of disadvantages, why mess with a rare truck?


You have to know and understand Nick. He's a guy who gets things done. He's been very successful in his professional life and dreams big in his personal life.

He has also made those dreams a reality, completing two round the
world expeditions (one in Series rigs) and raising alot of money for Parkinson's research- which is a goal he set because his sister suffers from Parkinson's.

I remember talking to him out in the middle of the Mojave about his plans for the APGP. He said there would be some opportunities to use it in deep water on his next trip and he wanted to make it as capable as he could without altering it irreversibly. He was thrilled about using what some consider a "museum piece" in the way Land Rover had intended.

So it really wasn't about practicality, i.e. standard Wagon vs APGP, it was about "this would be so cool, no one's ever done it, and after all, a Land Rover should be driven."

As it turned out, Land Rover made a proposal- full vehicle sponsorship and support if Nick used the Discovery. For them it was about marketing, for him it was about making the trip happen for the sake of raising the money and having the adventure. So he went with the Discovery.

And the premise that he "messed with a rare truck" is not really fair. After all Ike, your Series I monster is pretty rare and it's way more modded. Timm is a mad scientist. :)

It's not like Nick took the APGP to "Pimp My Ride". If anything he saved it from terminal decay. I saw it before the work and 99% of the series crowd would have never had the guts or the resources to deal with it.

[leafsprung]

And the premise that he "messed with a rare truck" is not really fair. After all Ike, your Series I monster is pretty rare and it's way more modded.


Theres hundreds and hundreds of lwb series ones. Theres less than 10 APGPs. . . Plus, my truck was mostly trashed and was burned before the mods. It certainly could have been done a lot more tastefully too. (hopefully I can fix some of that before I sell it) The APGP was unmolested for the most part.


So it really wasn't about practicality

This is exactly my issue with it.

[johnd]

Hi, i have just come accross your post on the APGP. I have reacently aquired an apgp in need of restoration, it is very rough, and has been choped about at some point to put a crane in the back. Anyway i plan to restore it to original condition ( and then use it!) as such i would be greatfull for any pics or information anyone may have on APGPs.

Thanks

[jp-]

Where did you get it and how much do you want for it?

Also, pics needed of your truck.