New shiney bulkheads?

[Jim-ME]

I am seriously thinking about finding a way to produce US made, brand spanking new Series bulkheads. Can anyone out there supply me with blueprints, plans or pictures of Series 1,early IIa, late IIa and S3 bulkheads so I can, with assistance from local friends, possibly make them available. Without the support (in the form of information, not looking for $) from folks like: RN, DAP,Atl BR Parts, ECR, Pangolin, and Singing Camel I won't and can't promise that this will ever happen especially when it comes to the exact differences between the years. Any and all comments welcomed and desired.
Jim

[jp-]

It would probably be a good idea to procure some nice examples of originals. That may take a bit of capital. Also, not sure if you need to fool with the S3 as I hear that the Defender bulkheads are fairly easy to convert.

As for blueprints, you would need to take a bulkhead and cut all the pieces apart. Then flatten them and draw them, making notes of all the fold lines. Then you would have to get the individual pieces made, run them through press brakes, and finally weld everything together. Do you plan on spot welding, or MIG welding them?

[O'Brien]

don't forget about us IIA NADA 6cyl's!!!

[ajones]

As I read the thread I remembered an ad in a UK rover mag advertising now bulkheads:
Andrew Morris
(01283) 734324

Maybe they could help.

[greenmeanie]

As for blueprints, you would need to take a bulkhead and cut all the pieces apart. Then flatten them and draw them, making notes of all the fold lines. [/quote]

Having done a fair amount of reverse engineering and worked with sheetmetal shops for my job I disagree with your process. First thing is sheetmetal shops HATE you sending them flat patterns and telling them how much material they need to add for bend deformation etc. That is their expertise and is dependent on several factors such as tooling and material/ temper condition etc. There are all manners of calculations that affect this but Machineries Hand Book is a good place to start. Tell them how the part should look in its final condition and let them decide how to make it or, of course, if you are making it do the leg work to create a manufacturing plan.

Are you trying to make exact reproductions or good after market replacements? A rough guess would suggest that an exact reproduction is more expensive as you would have to duplicate some of the stamped features such as the strengthening dimples in the foot wells.

I would be interested to see the business case for this project as I can see bulkheads for the common IIA trucks being sustainable but I can't imagine the rarer machines such as S1 etc can justify the NRE.

Have you thought about testing the waters, so to speak, by providing something like SIII bulkheads based on modified Defender items. It would be a useful way to gain experience in the market without a huge engineering outlay.

Then again, if you are doing this as a labour of love then have at it man!

Cheers
Gregor

[leafsprung]

I can supply CAD drawings of the firewalls, which is essentially what you would need. I can even make you the dies for the vents etc. This is an expensive project. One Ive been meaning to tackle but I have other priorities right now.

[galen216]

I am a mechanical designer and I can put those drawings into 3D if you have any interest in that.

[leafsprung]

They would be 3D. Still got the cab? Trying to find a door to repace the liftagate you are after

[Jim-ME]

I have a friend that has a full machine shop that I'm going to go visit after Christmas. Ike, if you are willing to send me CAD drawings, that would be great. I know Harry will find them useful. To everybody else, how important is it to you to have a bulkhead that is absolutely year correct as compared to one that is extremely well built but may not have things like ribbed footwells; both holes tor the steering column etc.?
Jim

[galen216]

They would be 3D. Still got the cab? Trying to find a door to repace the liftagate you are after

I'd love to see 3d of a bulkhead, that is a lot of work.

Looks like I have someone to trade with, sorry didn't know you where still interested because I never heard back.

[greenmeanie]

To everybody else, how important is it to you to have a bulkhead that is absolutely year correct as compared to one that is extremely well built but may not have things like ribbed footwells; both holes tor the steering column etc.?
Jim



Personally I would pay for something well built at a more attractive price. Dimensional accuracy for fit is way more important to me than whether it has the right little wing ding that meant it was built on Friday the 13th July 1971 at 2.30pm. If you can swap a bulkhead you can certainly add holes where you need em is my view. For manufacturing cost reasons I would shoot for something as generic as possible. Of course, as the customer I would expect to see that reflected in the price.

I would also look into offering some extras like a galvy version for more money. You know how series owners are about their galvy!

It could also be an interesting exercise to see if you could build a generic IIA bulkhead but then modify the design to have a bolt in center section. This may allow you to offer products for the 4 pot, 6 pot and even some common engine conversions. I must admit I've never compared the different ones so don't know how difficult this would be.

Cheers
Gregor

[Jim-ME]

Gregor,
You and I are on the same page in my thought process but I probably spend entirely too much time in the restorations section of the Series 2 forum in England so that I know there are folks out there that want model correct. That is why I'm trying to get imput for the folks I have come to rely on and respect, on this forum so that when I make my inquiries I can present what the market wants, not what I think it needs.
Jim

[greenmeanie]

Oh well you've had the designer's chime in (Yes I'm one too). You'll have to wait a little bit for the MBA's to show up to discuss the business case.

Mind you, anybody who actually deals with economics is most unlikely to own a Series:) We might be safe.

Cheers
Gregor

[thixon]

Sorry Gregor,

Here I am. Undergrad = Finance and Eco (I doubled), advanced degrees= MBA(management),and PhD(Eco).

Considering the nature of the beast with series rovers, and the fact that we actually use our trucks instead of polishing them with a diaper in the garage all day, I'd probably opt for the lower cost functional design to hit the market with first. As much as some us don't want to admit it, originality has become less and less important as the years have gone by.

There are plenty of folks who would buy the model without dimples in the floorpans and cuts for the pedals and heaters if the price point was low enough (now that I consider it, even if it wasn't low). The galvanizing option would be great, and on a volume scale would'nt add that much to the cost of production. In fact, it would negate the requirement to paint the bulkhead, making the project even cheaper for the consumer (just bolt the damn thing in and go!). A real bonus to someone who does'nt have painting skills, but is a decent mechanic.

My 2 cents

Travis
'66 IIa 88"

[greenmeanie]

Ah Thixon, I knew that would bring somone in. My wife is an MBA too so I'm just naturally a bit hard on them.

Jim,
A novel product differentiator would be to build the generic bulkhead and then provide a set of paper templates for the hole patterns for the different year/build variants. It's comparitively cheap, can be a living document that can be updated as you gain the oportunity to inspect other bulkheads. It would help offset any doubts prospective customers might have about the piece not being finished to their particular spec and you would avoid the usual quality criticism that holes were not put in properly as my parts don't fit exactly.

Just a thought.
Gregor

[thixon]

Gregor,

Great idea, I like it. The templates are an excellent, low cost option.


Travis

[scatterling]

There seems an obvious solution to circumventing the "year specific" bulkhead. Why not just produce...oh I don't know... a Series III ...1975 RHD version.....problem solved, everybody happy :D


- Great thread, hope this leads to fruition.

[KevinNY]

Considering the fairly reasonable cost of obtaining a Defender bulkhead and getting it galvanized, it would seem tough to make any economies of scale for this. Of course if you produced a series III galvanized unit for a grand I'd be in for one.

[Eric W S]

Why reinvent the wheel? Call our hosts and present them with a business opportunity.

They offer the repair panels for the entire lower bulkhead and the door pillars. Why not propose to them to make the missing top peice, series three or 2 specific dash aseembly and vents? Viola - instant bulkhead. (I believe the door pillar repair posts would need lengthening as well.)

The next logical step is to make sure the parts are available as DIY weld up kit or offer it as a complete galavanized unit available as a special order. No inventory for our hosts if they do not want to hold it.

In the least you help our hosts get the missing upper & interior dash peice made, enables them to have a nicely made bulkhead as a special order or have a kit for people that are willing to finish it themselves (not to mention the ability to customize the bulkhead to a specific application - swapping a motor? buy the parts sans the center section).

Finally, RN will be the only supplier of the upper bulkhead/dash repair kit and the only real work left is to get an accurate measurement of the upper assembly and specific interior dashs not currently offered.

EwS

[seriousseries]

I think more people would be interested in a company that can rebuild exhisting bulkheads to a brand new condition.

This would include

Metal work

Priming and Painting to desired color.

East Coast Rover is not rebuilding series bulkheads any longer. I am looking to have mine rebuilt, but I want to make sure it is done to the highest quality.

THis is a much more cost effective way of supplying nice bulkheads over all the RD and overhead involved in building Brand new pieces.

[leafsprung]

Rebuilding firewalls is not rocket science. It can be done to a higher standard than ECR by an carefull enthusiast. Here is some info on how you can do it:

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/reference/howto/bulkheadrepair/index.htm

[Jim-ME]

If you want yours rebuilt, ship it to Ike Goss at Pangolin, Mark at Singing Camel, or Matt Browne at Overland Engineering just to name a few of the ones I know of off the top of my head. The reason I'm looking at new ones is, the guy in England that builds new ones was charging approx $1700 for a galvanived bulkhead. I have been quoted $1500 to $2000 to have mine rebuilt and painted. For the $ spent the English one looked awfully attractive. If someone can build them on that side of the pond for that kind of $ because he already had the equipment to do it; then quite possibly I can find someone on this side of the pond who already has the equipment to build them as well. As with any custom manufactured product the more that are built at a time the less expensive they should be. Henry Ford figured that one out. I'm not trying to get all Series owners to buy new bulkheads but 'd love them all to have the option.
Jim