Rover Roookie Looking For Advice

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  • bullstanky
    1st Gear
    • Dec 2007
    • 119

    Rover Roookie Looking For Advice

    Despite what would probably be considered my better judgement, I recently joined the club by purchasing a diesel '64 IIA 109 off of ebay

    Click here if you want to give her a look and tell me I paid to much....


    The frame and bulkhead are 95% rust free and the engine runs strong. When the rover was advertised, it was listed as having a transmission leak. Finding, through a little research, that leaks on this vintage of rovers are quite common, I didn't pay it much attention and figured a new seal might be the answer. The seller said it had leaked for the year he had it. He had the fluids changed by a rover shop about 6 mths into owning it, and it continued to leak - maybe two quarter sized dots on the driveway after each use. He sugested that it was no big deal - maybe all the transmission needed was a heavier weight fluid, or to just add a little extra fluid every now and then.

    I've had the rover for 3 weeks and drove it 6 or 7 times, each for a short 3-5 mile trip. Keeping an eye on the leak, I noticed that it leaked once or twice (a quarter size or so) the first 2-3 times I drove it when it was warm outside. The next 2-3 times (when it was cooler outside) there was no leak. Looking underneath, it is very oily under the flywheel, but the main drips seem to be on the pan for the transfer case. Not being a huge drip, I just drove the rover and hoped it was just a "leak when warm" kind of deal.

    I noticed on the 2nd to last drive I took that when I was doing full speed in 4th gear to climb a large hill (w/ everyone else flying by me at 65mph) it smelled like something was burning (clutch?) and if I let off of the gas for a second, the transmission would pop out of 4th and into neutral, and I might have to clutch once or twice to get the engine reving again. The stick would go into 4th with the clutch in, but then didn't rev up to speed, so I had to clutch again to get the engine going to keep me moving (losing precious momentum while those behing me moved over to pass).

    The last time I drove the rover it did this again - smelled like clutch burning - popped out of 4th when I let off the gas - and then took a clutch or two to get going again. Then, all of the sudden it got hard to shift into 1st and 2nd (like the clutch wasn't engaging) and then I couldn't get the trans out of gear.

    I parked for a while and noticed that with the engine off, I could pull it out of gear and easily move between all of the gears. I turned the engine on, put it in reverse and backed up a little, but it stalled. I pulled the trans out of gear, turned the engine back on, and with the clutch pushed in, was unable to get into any of the 4 forward gears. It would go into reverse, but stalled as soon as I got there (with the clutch pedal in).

    I have noticed that there is fluid leaking where the clutch slave unit enters the bell housing and am hoping that is the culprit - is this kind of behavior consistent with a worn out slave unit (the master cylinder looks fine - i haven't checked the fluid level yet, but am going to that this afternoon)?

    Could this be the clutch going out as well as the slave unit? Could this somehow be the result of low fluid levels b/c of leaks from the transmission or transfer case - how do I check those levels/where are the fills? I've got a fairey OD unit coming in the mail, but need to figure this out first - any ideas? Any good diagnostic tips?
    Last edited by bullstanky; 12-17-2007, 04:21 PM.
    '75 SIII 109 Diesel - I'm in deep.
  • friar mike
    1st Gear
    • Nov 2007
    • 116

    #2
    Thats a 1964 looks more like a 1974.
    Onward threw the fog

    Comment

    • sven
      1st Gear
      • Dec 2006
      • 174

      #3
      Originally posted by friar mike
      Thats a 1964 looks more like a 1974.
      He's right. Thats a series III
      99 D1
      73 Series III 88"
      95 RRC LWB

      Comment

      • bullstanky
        1st Gear
        • Dec 2007
        • 119

        #4
        The title says '64, it has 2 wiper motors and a plaque stating negative earth, and definitely no synchros on 1st and 2nd, so I assume '64 is correct, and that the lights were moved out to the fenders by a previous owner. What is the best way to know for sure - the vin is 25106443B?
        Last edited by bullstanky; 12-17-2007, 06:05 PM.
        '75 SIII 109 Diesel - I'm in deep.

        Comment

        • bullstanky
          1st Gear
          • Dec 2007
          • 119

          #5
          I also forgot to mention that there is a bit of a high pitched sqeal at higher rpms in all gears - any ideas?
          '75 SIII 109 Diesel - I'm in deep.

          Comment

          • friar mike
            1st Gear
            • Nov 2007
            • 116

            #6
            Originally posted by bullstanky
            The title says '64, it has 2 wiper motors and a plaque stating negative earth, and definitely no synchros on 1st and 2nd, so I assume '64 is correct, and that the lights were moved out to the fenders by a previous owner. What is the best way to know for sure - the vin is 25106443B?
            The dash is also SIII the engine seems to be 2.5 maybe? sounds like franken rover. vin can be changed eazy.
            Onward threw the fog

            Comment

            • LaneRover
              Overdrive
              • Oct 2006
              • 1743

              #7
              Is the wading plug for the bellhousing in? If it is then someone could have been trying to hide a bigger leak - lie on a Rover that I bought a few years ago.

              The wading plug should be at the front of the transmission bellhousing. If there is just a threaded hole there then it is not in. If there is a 'bolt' with a square top there then the wading plug is in. If it is in take it out - but I would recommend getting a pan to catch the bunch of oil that is going to come out. I am guessing that this is it because clutch fluid would not be leaking 'out'from the bellhousing as there is nothing hydraulic inside. The clutch slave cylinder sits outside of the bell housing.

              If oil comes out is it thick like 90 weight Transmission oil or thin like 10/40 motor oil? If thin I would check the oil level of your engine and you could have a leak in your rear main seal. If it is transmission oil then you have a leak where the mainshaft goes into the innards of the trannie. Either way if oil comes out of the bellhousing than your clutch is now soaked in oil.

              Best of luck!

              Brent
              1958 107 SW - Sold to a better home
              1965 109 SW - nearly running well
              1966 88 SW - running but needing attention
              1969 109 P-UP

              http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...2&l=64cfe23aa2

              Comment

              • Terrys
                Overdrive
                • May 2007
                • 1382

                #8
                2.5? 2.5 what? That isn't a Land Rover engine, and it sure looks like a series 3, inside and out.

                Dimes to donuts that truck came from Oz.
                Last edited by Terrys; 12-17-2007, 07:07 PM.

                Comment

                • Daurie
                  2nd Gear
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 251

                  #9
                  If you can't get it into gear (which it sounds like you can't) then I'd suspect the slave cyl. or the clutch lining breaking apart. (could explain the squealing) The leak could be worse than it seems as it may only leak as you release the clutch.

                  If you can get it into gear try this: at a standstill with the engine running, engage parking brake, put it in 4th, give it a little gas and let up on the clutch. If you have a good healthy clutch it will kill the engine right away. If it runs on seeming to pull a load on the engine then the clutch is bad.

                  What confused me is why you were slowing down at top speed. (unless you were on a grade) Some of what you say indicates a slipping clutch and some of what you say indicates a bad slave cyl.


                  I looked at that truck while it was up for bid. Hopefully you will get it sorted out. Let us know of the findings as far as year and etc. It has all the trimmings of a S3! Maybe someone who knows more will look at the pictures and be able to spot any indicators on the underside that would identify it as a 64.

                  Good luck!
                  '73 SIII 88"
                  Turner 8:1 Engine
                  NRP Exhaust
                  Roverdrive
                  RM Parabolics
                  OME Shocks
                  Warn 8274
                  Pangolin4X4 bumper

                  Comment

                  • friar mike
                    1st Gear
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 116

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Terrys
                    2.5? 2.5 what? That isn't a Land Rover engine, and it sure looks like a series 3, inside and out.

                    Dimes to donuts that truck came from Oz.
                    yep thats what I mean just a guess. My 2.5 looks diffrent then this engine but I have seen a few diffrent looking 2.5 maybe a Perkins?
                    Onward threw the fog

                    Comment

                    • giorgio
                      Low Range
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 74

                      #11
                      Well, I will have to admit that it is a bit of a puzzler to me. I have a 1973 Series III 88, and an 1968 Series IIA 109.

                      Your dash, running lights, grill, seat cushions, etc. are identical to my Series III.

                      My Series IIA has smaller, glass lenses on the running lights.

                      It looks like a nice example of the breed. I hope you get it all sorted out. I do not believe that there is a single one that does not have a few "issues" that need to be worked out.

                      Hope that you enjoy your new find!

                      Giorgio

                      Comment

                      • Terrys
                        Overdrive
                        • May 2007
                        • 1382

                        #12
                        Originally posted by friar mike
                        yep thats what I mean just a guess. My 2.5 looks diffrent then this engine but I have seen a few diffrent looking 2.5 maybe a Perkins?
                        It could be a Perkins, pump looks right. Maybe a 4-108 or 4-236. The Aussies love their Roo bars (I guess they have more Roos than Bulls) And, while this is certainly no measure, I have seen that color, also flat, on other Oz trucks. They have several engines they're fond of, and Holden seems to be a favorite. I don't know if there are any on this board from Oz, but there are a lot over on Land Rovers Only. Ask one of them.

                        Comment

                        • bullstanky
                          1st Gear
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 119

                          #13
                          Thanks to all for the advice. By all accounts it is a series III - I'm going to climb underneath the first time I get a chance and see if I can't pull some serial #'s off of the engine and transmission.

                          It does seem like my clutch is both slipping and not engaging/disengaging properly. There is definitely fluid leaking right where the slave cylinder enters the bellhousing - the fluid is clearish-yellow and seems lighter than engine oil or transmission oil - this would be the hydraulic fluid, right? This looks like the same stuff that is dripping from the nuts on the transfer case oil pan.

                          The stuff where the engine meets the trans is dirty black burned up engine oil, most likely sneaking past the rear main seal.

                          I'll check the wading plug if I can find it, the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder, test the slave, and report back - hopefully its just a leak of some kind in the hydraulic system.
                          '75 SIII 109 Diesel - I'm in deep.

                          Comment

                          • BackInA88
                            3rd Gear
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 332

                            #14
                            Don't rule out the oil pan gasket as the source of your leak.
                            I thought mine was the rear main, lucky I did the oil pan first.
                            71 IIa 88
                            01 D2

                            Comment

                            • SHORLAND
                              Low Range
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 43

                              #15
                              Can you take pictures as well? Thanks.

                              Comment

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