so what did i break?

[O'Brien]

here's what happened:

i was running some errands this weekend. i usually drive my rover to work and back daily. this is usually about 10-15 total each day. so daily driver, but most of the stuff on my rig is original, and by original, i don't mean correct, but the parts that came with it when new. so they're old, and pretty worn.

warmed up the rover, made my way about 9 miles down the freeway, exited, stopped at a light, pulled into the parking lot at home depot to get some stuff. pull up to a stop sign in the parking lot. i fully stopped, put the car into first, and then nothing. no weird sounds, no grinding. I couldn't get any gear to engage. I got out and locked in my hubs, put it into 4 wheel drive, first gear, and she's driving again.

so my question:

based on reading through old threads, did i blow one of my rear axle shafts? i've noticed a really slow leak on my rear diff, and i haven't crawled under since parking it. i'm not hearing any grinding, or strange sounds, so i am guessing there is still some fluid in the rear diff. i feel like once i know what the problem is, i can buy the parts and fix it. The thing i am worried about is diagnosing what exactly is wrong. at this point i'm looking for any and all pointers on how to figure out what i need to repair/replace. in addition, once it's determined what's wrong, any suggestions on things i should repair/replace while im at it.

my rover is a 109 nada six cylinder station wagon. thanks friends!

[SalemRover]

From everything you said it sounds like a rear halfshaft. Its pretty easy to pull the rear ones to inspect them. Given that you drove away on your front axle it's 99.9% likely one of your rear halfshafts went.

Cheers,

Jason

[thixon]

So far, I'm with Jason. Usually a diff makes a hell of whining noise before it goes. You'd of noticed that.

[SalemRover]

So far, I'm with Jason. Usually a diff makes a hell of whining noise before it goes. You'd of noticed that.

Or the rear propshaft could have grenaded. I think you wouild of noticed that though. Happened to a D90 a few weeks ago.... they do tend to make a bit of noise when they go as well.

-Jason

[jp-]

Any chance that you accidentally bumped the red knob into neutral?

Why don't you unlock your front hubs and try it again. Try driving with the fronts unlocked with the red knob in 2H and 4L.

Breaking a rear axle is kind of hard to not notice.

[O'Brien]

Any chance that you accidentally bumped the red knob into neutral?

the previous owner rigged up a nice little link of chain with a hook for the red one, so no real chance it popped out, but i will probably check it again tonight when i get home, unlock and see what happens.

i pretty sure i would have noticed if there was a loud popping or something, but you never know. i drive with headphones in quite a bit, so maybe i missed it.

[I Leak Oil]

If you're sure it's in gear then check the axle shafts first. I've heard they can break with minimal noise. I lost the cross shaft in one of my diffs and it didn't make any noise, would drive one minute nothing the next. I checked the axle shafts and they were fine, pulled the diff and the spider gears and pieces of the cross shaft went spilling onto the driveway.
Jason T.

[O'Brien]

If you're sure it's in gear then check the axle shafts first. I've heard they can break with minimal noise. I lost the cross shaft in one of my diffs and it didn't make any noise, would drive one minute nothing the next. I checked the axle shafts and they were fine, pulled the diff and the spider gears and pieces of the cross shaft went spilling onto the driveway.
Jason T.

that sounds like it could be the thing. so how to i go about figuring out what needs to be replaced? check axle shafts first, then pull the diff if it's not the shafts? I would love to tackle it this weekend, so ordering parts today or tomorrow would be optimal.

this will be my first time REALLY wrenching in this thing. i resolved never to take it to the shop again unless i MUST. so if you fine folks could provide a little guidance on where to start looking, and how to do it, i would really appreciate it. teach this man to fish!

[friar mike]

If you're sure it's in gear then check the axle shafts first. I've heard they can break with minimal noise. I lost the cross shaft in one of my diffs and it didn't make any noise, would drive one minute nothing the next. I checked the axle shafts and they were fine, pulled the diff and the spider gears and pieces of the cross shaft went spilling onto the driveway.
Jason T.
yep seen that one before. last one I fixed (it was a disco) it pop a hole in the axle housing. it looked like a bullet hole just bend the tab back over the exit wound and welded it up and r&r the broken parts.

[I Leak Oil]

Matt, remove the shafts and it those aren't the problem then leave them out and take the diff out. Be careful it's heavy!
Jason T.

[SalemRover]

Well you are going to have to pull the halfshafts to get the diff out. So I'd start there.

-Jason

[O'Brien]

so i'm guessing that the following link is a pretty handy guide to what i am probably facing right? seems like this is what i need to do

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=10703

maybe i'll follow this, shoot my own pics, and post something similar here (crediting the original link, of course) so that other visually oriented learners like me can benefit in the future.

[O'Brien]

also, thought you folks might find this to be a great tool, that is you you don't have it already!

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Shaft.asp?MID=33

[O'Brien]

well it was the longer half shaft that broke. did everything by myself yesterday in the rain. i'll post some pictures up if anyone is interested. probably old hat for quite a few of you, but it was the first time i've ever REALY worked on a car myself. what a way to start i guess, and man, was that rear diff heavy when you're laying on the ground!

i do have a pretty serious question though.

seem that the previous owner at some point replaced a couple of the drive flange bolts with shorter and a little bit bigger diameter bolts. after replacing the felt seals and everything, i can't get the non-correct bolts to thread in. They are actually pretty lose, but i haven't noticed any leaking since i finished it last night.

my question is: can i find replacement bolts that will be the same as the correct bolts at my local hardware store? if so, thread type and length is something i hope you all could tell me.

if not, do i need to order the correct drive flange bolts from our hosts or somewhere similar? I don't want to f-up to the threads inside the rear hubs anymore than they have been. thankfully the bolts that have been switched are short enough that the threads aren't that ruined. also, can i drive this thing with one or two bolts missing to get to the store? thanks for your help friends!:thumb-up:

[friar mike]

Last one I did had Whitworth threaded bolts you won't be running down to the home depot for those. Whitworth thread is 55 degrees pitch US is 60 same old 1/2 -9/16-5/8 size and so on but will not interchange. Whitworth is corse thread and BS is fine thread.

[Jeff Aronson]

Remove the halfshafts from the wheel side. Just unbolt the flange, remove the cotter pin and felt washer, and pull out the shaft. You should have splines on both ends; if not, then one is broken

If you're lucky, it broke on the wheel end and it will be a simple replacement. Order the shaft [they're sided r and l] and replace the other one, too. They tend to go at the same time. If you're not lucky, the shaft broke at the diff end. That can be a bear to get out. Sometimes you need to open up the diff housing, remove the heavy differential, and knock out the remaining stub with a broomstick or long steel bar. If you've driven it very far with the piece broken in the diff, you'll want to remove it and clean out the diff for any metal shavings or pieces.

I've had mine break with a great bang and with a whimper, so noise is not the real determination.

When you take out the halfshafts, you should have some gear oil run out. If you don't then check the diff case. Remove the fill plug and see if you have gear oil in it. If not, you may have cooked the diff. That would cause binding and eventual breakage of metal pieces. But, as others have noted, you should have heard some real noise back there.

Good luck,

Jeff

[O'Brien]

dang jeff, you're knocking them out of the park, one thread after the other today!

I already completed the service on my axle shafts. the longer of the two shafts broke, and it wasn't at the wheel end. I replaced both shafts, and also pulled the rear dif. luckily enough, the broken piece fell right out once i drained and pulled the dif. put everything back together, and she's rolling along again like a charm. the inside of my rear dif looked brand new too, which is always nice to see, considering on the outside it looked like, well, the underside of a 42 year old land rover haha!