Understanding what makes a LR [Archive]

leafsprung

02-04-2008, 04:52 PM

Simplicity and originality are two different things. Doing a conversion doesnt mean making it complicated. . . in fact it can simplify it further! Lets face it, the chances of finding vintage rover parts in the middle of nowhere is pretty much nil whereas more modern/domestic parts are pretty plentiful and inexpensive anywhere. Ironically I think you will find that people do conversions for the very reason you keep yours stock! Plus theres already a hybrid forum. Personally I love stock rovers and have a few of them. However, the rover modified nicely/tastefully to suit the needs of its owner and what they use it for will always be more interesting. (which is why I have a few that arent stock)

jp-

02-04-2008, 04:55 PM

It's the old originality vs. functionality. I don't think we need to split up the forum because of it. The beauty of it is, to each his own. I enjoy an original Land Rover, but that is just me. If someone else enjoys their Mercedes powered Land Rover, who am I to complain. It does what they want it to. Land Rovers have always been there to do what their owners needed them to do (and Land Rover stood by their modifications to accommodate many owners, albeit lacking the main thing many owners asked for - more power). When I was younger, I thought it was a sin to change an "original" Rover and part of me still does. But right now, I've got a 109" pickup in many pieces and when I rebuild it, I think I am going to put a different engine in it because I believe that will allow me to do more of what I want the vehicle to do.

SalemRover

02-04-2008, 04:57 PM

Great, just point me to a link for;

Rovers North BBS Forums > Land Rover Technical Forums > SPOT

I will be posting all my ideas on upgrades there.

/tongue in cheek

-Jason

Mercedesrover

02-04-2008, 05:04 PM

The modifications others and I have done are for the very reasons you mention. Reliability and simplicity. Yes, old Land Rovers in their original state are very easy to repair in the field. Trouble is, they seem to always need repair in the field. Why carry a spare pair of axle shafts when you can build axles that will never break? Sure, the original engine is simple and easily repaired, but why not install a diesel engine that, for all intents and purposes, never breaks down? Makes sense to me.

And most of the changes, conversions, adaptations, what-have-you are only complicated in their execution. The end results are more times than not simpler than what is being replaced, and if done correctly, more reliable, stronger and safer than what originally was there.

I don’t think anyone is trying to make their Land Rover into something it’s not, we’re all just trying to make them a bit better and more reliable at what they already do.

And hell, look at what Land Rover did to these trucks themselves. Different engines, different axles, all kinds of bodies. Holy cow...they even put a Buick V8 in a Land Rover?!?!?! Surely blasphemy!

yorker

02-04-2008, 05:31 PM

I don't see any need to have a different forum. Series Land Rovers are ideal for conversions and it doesn't detract from their character or utility if done in a well engineered way. Should we tell TerriAnn to take a hike- that her kind of modifications and input aren't welcomed around here? How about Mercedes Jim? Honestly I got over this mentality a long time ago, what other people do to their trucks is their business, in fact it is pretty darned interesting. Certainly people might choose modifications that are foolish in someone else's eyes, but so what? As time goes on a lot of these modifications make more and more sense, indeed if LR also sought to change and improve their products as time went on- why can't we? Every vehicle is a compromise as built by its original manufacturer, if a person wants to alter his vehicle to fit their needs better then more power to them! We are not bound by the constraints that Land Rover was, we have access to the full spectrum of automotive components- why not take advantage of that if you can increase the utility of your vehicle for you?

thixon

02-04-2008, 07:50 PM

JimCT,

where you just trying to start some SH(&?

Jim-ME

02-05-2008, 06:35 AM

I feel that we as Rover owners have the right to modify our vehicles to meet our needs. If you don't like my choices you don't have to do them. If you are a purist great. If you want a 2008 Range Rover with all it's amenities with a Series body that's your right too. I personally think you are nuts but it's yours not mine. I went back to a Series because they don't have extrainous crap that breaks. I've alway hated full time 4X4 which was another strike for me against a Defender. When you add air, power windows, computers and the like I cringe. If that is the kind of stuff you want that's great. Against a lot of advice, I want a diesel engine. I haven't decided which one yet but it probably will not have a turbo and it definitely would have a computer. I simply love diesel. Hopefully this rant makes some kind of sense.
Jim

gallf1

02-05-2008, 08:24 AM

Jim:
My "hybrid" 1971 SIIA109 with a Ford 302 V-8 and Borg Warner T-18 4 spd was built this way by me EXACTLY for the reasons you mention about being out in the boonies and not being able to find a LR water pump or a LR distributor part.
If my good ole american made Ford parts goes out on me, I can walk to the local parts store, scrap yard or shade tree mechanic and get a part.
Besides, my Ford motor at almost idle speeds puts out more HP and Torque than any LR motor designed for the SIIA.
From the outside, it looks like a stock LR 109 (that much I wouldnt modify due to the rugged good looks:nono: !) but inside, I need reliability, local parts availability plus parts at least 2/3's cheaper than OEM Rover parts:thumb-up:

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are. You need a distributor, there is one. Easy to fix, simple parts. We take ours on long road trips because i know how easy it is to repair, and how simple. Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where. Maybe the forum needs to split into a hybrid and a series forum? Just a thought.

TSR53

02-05-2008, 08:27 AM

Easy boys - play nice :sly:.

RoversNorth.com Hybrid forum is here (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

Jim-ME

02-05-2008, 09:11 AM

So far so good.

TeriAnn

02-05-2008, 10:26 AM

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are.

Land Rover happily made any special design that anyone would pay for. There is an incredible verity of variants to be seen outside North America. Their standard models were largely based upon them not having a cash to upgrade tooling. But whatever your preferences I can understand you wanting to keep your Land Rover showroom stock. Am I'm glad some people do that as I enjoy looking at nicely restored stock Land Rovers at British Car field meets.

We each have our individual preferences and hopefully there is room for everyone without prejudice. Personally I like to drive my Land Rover long distances when I have gas money to do so and I like to play house inside my Land Rover. I don't particularly like to work on my Land Rover whilst on trips. I left my 109 stock for the first 15 years then I started making modifications for increased safety and reliability. Then 12 years ago I decided to modify my Land Rover to make long period camping more enjoyable (read more comfortable). The rest is herstory.

Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where.
Actually most of the drive train modifications done to my Land Rover makes parts as easy to find as hitting the nearest chain auto parts store. And the parts are a lot cheaper. Try and find an Auto parts store in North America that doesn't stock parts for Ford small blocks or a transmission shop that has never seen a Borg Warner T-18 gearbox. I would have a much harder time if something let go in my Series transfercase. My disc brake components are late model GM parts. Also easily obtainable.

What's hard to replace at a moment's notice in a one gas station Arizona back country town? Besides Land Rover parts (which can be obtained at the speed of UPS red).

My radiator is a custom radiator but the mounts will accept just about anything out of a wrecking yard in a pinch. I have SeriesTrek front 24 spline axles, but I don't expect to break them anytime soon and I've off roaded with broken front axles before. My Great Basin propshafts take common off the shelf U joints. The aluminum adapter plate sandwiched between the gearbox and transfercase is probably the least likely part on the vehicle to be destroyed. The electric fan is off a V8 Mercedes, My relays are off the shelf GM and Ford. Hoses are Goodyear.

I would think that replacing my genuine Land Rover parts would be about the hardest part of recovering from a vehicle stopping breakdown (which I have yet to have in 30 years of driving my Land Rover). When I needed Land Rover parts on the trail, a phone call has brought them to me via red label UPS.

If anything the drive train is way more robust than stock. Almost all of my non-Land Rover parts are much more robust than equiv. Series parts, cheaper and easier to come by.

But I do enjoy looking at nicely restored showroom stock Series Land Rovers. :thumb-up:

yorker

02-05-2008, 10:47 AM

Honestly when you break a Series Land Rover down to its most basic concept what IS it? A light duty vehicle- leaf sprung, solid axle, 2 speed transfer case, 4 speed transmission and simple 4 cylinder engine. It is a beautifully simple concept and a readily adaptable platform. What a wonderful thing! Plug and play within that and I don't think you can really go wrong as long as you make sure whatever you replace meets or exceeds the original Rover items.

Heck if you had the $ back in the 1960s I bet you could have convinced Land Rover to put F+R ENVs under an 88 if you so desired.

Is modification sacrilege? Maybe but it also has kept a lot more Land Rovers on the road than would be true otherwise. Just look at the condition of the Rovers Jim Young has brought home and rebuilt. They were headed for the crusher, even IF a purist had interceded they'd probably have just seen a fate as a parts car- picked apart and doled out over eBay- a sad fate for any vehicle.

NC Rover

02-05-2008, 10:57 AM

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are. You need a distributor, there is one. Easy to fix, simple parts. We take ours on long road trips because i know how easy it is to repair, and how simple. Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where. Maybe the forum needs to split into a hybrid and a series forum? Just a thought.

Unfortunately (or not so unfortunate) some of us acquired our rover after the previous owner already turned it into a hybrid. It is difficult for me to ask questions sometimes mainly b/c its tough to know what originally came from what when half is a D90 and the other half is a Series. I dubbed my rover "Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde" :D

A lot of people on the series forum have really helped me understand what originally went where and what to look out for even though a portion of my vehicle is part of the D90 bloodline. Plus I think maybe talking about my hybrid has given others a few ideas to ponder and possibly help them fabricate something to customize their vehicle to what suits them?

NC Rover

02-05-2008, 10:59 AM

Land Rover happily made any special design that anyone would pay for. There is an incredible verity of variants to be seen outside North America. Their standard models were largely based upon them not having a cash to upgrade tooling. But whatever your preferences I can understand you wanting to keep your Land Rover showroom stock. Am I'm glad some people do that as I enjoy looking at nicely restored stock Land Rovers at British Car field meets.

We each have our individual preferences and hopefully there is room for everyone without prejudice. Personally I like to drive my Land Rover long distances when I have gas money to do so and I like to play house inside my Land Rover. I don't particularly like to work on my Land Rover whilst on trips. I left my 109 stock for the first 15 years then I started making modifications for increased safety and reliability. Then 12 years ago I decided to modify my Land Rover to make long period camping more enjoyable (read more comfortable). The rest is herstory.

Actually most of the drive train modifications done to my Land Rover makes parts as easy to find as hitting the nearest chain auto parts store. And the parts are a lot cheaper. Try and find an Auto parts store in North America that doesn't stock parts for Ford small blocks or a transmission shop that has never seen a Borg Warner T-18 gearbox. I would have a much harder time if something let go in my Series transfercase. My disc brake components are late model GM parts. Also easily obtainable.

What's hard to replace at a moment's notice in a one gas station Arizona back country town? Besides Land Rover parts (which can be obtained at the speed of UPS red).

My radiator is a custom radiator but the mounts will accept just about anything out of a wrecking yard in a pinch. I have SeriesTrek front 24 spline axles, but I don't expect to break them anytime soon and I've off roaded with broken front axles before. My Great Basin propshafts take common off the shelf U joints. The aluminum adapter plate sandwiched between the gearbox and transfercase is probably the least likely part on the vehicle to be destroyed. The electric fan is off a V8 Mercedes, My relays are off the shelf GM and Ford. Hoses are Goodyear.

I would think that replacing my genuine Land Rover parts would be about the hardest part of recovering from a vehicle stopping breakdown (which I have yet to have in 30 years of driving my Land Rover). When I needed Land Rover parts on the trail, a phone call has brought them to me via red label UPS.

If anything the drive train is way more robust than stock. Almost all of my non-Land Rover parts are much more robust than equiv. Series parts, cheaper and easier to come by.

But I do enjoy looking at nicely restored showroom stock Series Land Rovers. :thumb-up:

You inspire me. :D

Jim-ME

02-05-2008, 11:34 AM

TeriAnne,
I agree with NCRover 100%. You have provided a great service to Rover owners. Thank you!
Jim

Momo

02-05-2008, 11:52 AM

I think Jim may be feeling a little like the Ford Model A purist in a world full of hot-rodders. Can you imagine the frustration at seeing perfectly good Model As being cut down in vast numbers?

There's nothing I like better than to see a perfectly stock, restored Land Rover. Other than keeping up in modern traffic, the capabilities of a stock series Land Rover are as much as 99% of owners would ever require.

I hate to see someone take an early series rig and hack it. It's like seeing a split window VW beetle get the Baja treatment. Makes me cringe.

Even in England the Series II and IIA are finally getting their due as collectible cars after years of getting hacked up to be trialers and hot dog vending trucks and ugly, tippy campers and rocket launch platforms and what-not.

I also have to wonder what people are thinking when they take a series rig, swap the whole drive train, the axles...yes, even the frame, for something else! When that happens you aren't driving a Land Rover, just riding around in the body of a former Land Rover. Same with people who try to make a series look like a Defender. These people are just into the "look" I guess.

But then again, I see that lots of these trucks would have been scrapped were it not for creative gear heads doing some really neat modifications. I've driven an 88 with a SBC under the bonnet that would smoke a Corvette off the line. It was scary fast, and really fun. Plus it would still climb like a goat and from the outside you couldn't tell it was a V8.

I've seen some trucks that have been kept together with bailing wire and JB weld, and that have defied the odds of survival. Like something out of Mad Max. Like most Land Rovers, those trucks are a reflection of their owners- eccentric and quirky. Never boring.

Look at ECR's output of series trucks. They built some amazing machines that were outwardly still faithful to the series design. Who wouldn't want an ECR built series truck with a 300tdi, disk brakes and a five speed?

Ultimately it is the owner's decision what to do with his truck. I think we all just hope he does it skillfully.

Alaska Mike

02-05-2008, 12:52 PM

The way I see it, a parts car or other neglected Rover is fair game. My Rover project was rusting away because several, more knowledgeable Rover guys passed it over. They had offered the previous owner a few bucks for parts here and there, but for the most part they considered it scrap. In retrospect, they were probably right, but I saw this as my chance to get a Series rig of my own. I'm very up-front about the fact that I was only interested in the overall look, and the rest was negotiable. I really could care less if a part is "correct", if the replacement meets or exceeds the performance of the original. Certain parts I choose to retain for convenience (easier to install the original), but as others have mentioned, parts availability and reliability trumps any of my concerns for going "genuine". I'd rather the remaining NOS and reproduction parts go to vehicles that are in better shape and will remain stock.

I'm currently considering a Jeep engine swap, so consider me the ultimate heretic. No matter what I do to it, it will still be a Series Land Rover to me.

TeriAnn

02-05-2008, 01:07 PM

IEven in England the Series II and IIA are finally getting their due as collectible cars after years of getting hacked up to be trialers and hot dog vending trucks and ugly, tippy campers and rocket launch platforms and what-not.
Now just when I thought 2/3rds of the SII crowd was busy swapping in a diesel engine and the other third were converting to LPG I'm told they are being reconverted to the stock configuration and the Land Rover variants are hacks that are not worth surviving. What do you advise be done with these Land Rover factory special body trucks, ugly & tippy Dormobiles, Park Rangers, Carawagons and worst of all that American dealer option, the Land Rover Explorer? And those non-pure, ghastly lightweights, forward controls ambulances and other military variants? And the Land Rover fire trucks? Shall we send them all to the crusher as not being real Land Rovers? And heaven forbid the existence of a trail or expedition rig.

I also have to wonder what people are thinking when they take a series rig, swap the whole drive train, the axles...yes, even the frame, for something else!
I for one was primarily thinking about increased safety and reliability. Later I got interested in camping comfort (a natural byproduct of getting older).

These people are just into the "look" I guess.
Just out of curiosity, How many years have you owned a Series Land Rover and approximately how many miles have you driven one.

jp-

02-05-2008, 01:36 PM

Easy boys - play nice :sly:.

RoversNorth.com Hybrid forum is here (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

Oh god!

We're too late!

Save yourselves!

Les Parker

02-05-2008, 01:45 PM

As much as I would like to side step this, I must put my 2p in .
One of the joys of Landrovers, albeit it stock or a "variant" they are after all, yours.
Yours to make as you would like your vehicle to be, from fully restored 1948 Series I (by detail oriented DLR in UK) to the desert racing Def 110's by Al Tayer Motors in Dubai, they are what the owners want them to be.
So leave the 101 F.C. 's Air Portable 88's, Dormobile/Carawagon, trialers, Comp. Safari owners to themselves.
They have want they want in a vehicle, so enjoy the badge front and rear, what is in between is the owners business.

jp-

02-05-2008, 02:29 PM

Does this mean that all the Dormobiler's, etc... will now have to play only in the hybrid section?

/I'll miss you guys.

NC Rover

02-05-2008, 02:41 PM

I also have to wonder what people are thinking when they take a series rig, swap the whole drive train, the axles...yes, even the frame, for something else! When that happens you aren't driving a Land Rover, just riding around in the body of a former Land Rover. Same with people who try to make a series look like a Defender. These people are just into the "look" I guess.

The previous owner of my rover replaced the entire frame and decided while it was apart to replace the tranny, transfer case, axles, etc b/c he used it for the past 14 years and discovered for the off-roading and hunting he was doing, he wanted something that was a little more rugged and up to date rather than vintage show. Of course he loved the old series rover so he had the 2.5L Eurospec petrol engine shipped from England and kept the old body style. And that 5th gear makes a world of difference on the highway. Plus should something break, he would be replacing newer parts from a Defender rather than ordering old vintage parts. It was a frame off restoration, however it was not done for the show room but rather for functionality and to take a beating.

So wouldn't you say the people who keep their rover completely original are going for a "look" as well? Everyone has different tastes and one man's junk is another man's treasure. Sometimes I wish my rover was original but then I have people say they wish they had the mods done to my rover. It just depends what you want out of a vehicle and its fun to see what you can do to your vehicle to make it an even more unique rig. :thumb-up:

Does this mean that all the Dormobiler's, etc... will now have to play only in the hybrid section?/I'll miss you guys.

Are the hybrid's getting booted? :( I like hanging out with the originals.

gallf1

02-05-2008, 05:01 PM

I think that with all the problems in the world these days, whether or not a LR is totally original or not should be the least of our problems. My 109 was a CKD from Costa Rica imported to Calif and then driven to Boulder,CO. It has a mixture of parts but is pure Land Rover.

Putting it back together after a frame off restoration and reading about the history of the LR marque and the development of special vehicles and military versions facinate me. When out on the trail I will assist anyone who needs it regardless of what is under the hood and there is nothing better than leaning on the hood with a cold Guinness in one hand and bull s**ting about how steep that last hill was.

I personally dont care what it looks like or if it an orignal, just as long as its a LAND ROVER!!!:cheers:

Momo

02-05-2008, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Teri Ann

Now just when I thought 2/3rds of the SII crowd was busy swapping in a diesel engine and the other third were converting to LPG I'm told they are being reconverted to the stock configuration and the Land Rover variants are hacks that are not worth surviving. What do you advise be done with these Land Rover factory special body trucks, ugly & tippy Dormobiles, Park Rangers, Carawagons and worst of all that American dealer option, the Land Rover Explorer? And those non-pure, ghastly lightweights, forward controls ambulances and other military variants? And the Land Rover fire trucks? Shall we send them all to the crusher as not being real Land Rovers? And heaven forbid the existence of a trail or expedition rig.

Don't misunderstand me, Teri Ann. I respect your many years of Land Rover ownership and the way your Green Rover has evolved. It is yours to do with what you will and is a very capable rig. Remember when you pulled me through Afton Canyon? Never once did I make reference to that Ford V8 not being up to the job! ;)

And I never said Land Rover "variants" are hacks. I'm talking about some of the goofy rebuilds we all see in the LR mags. Honestly, does the entire dashboard really need a diamond plate veneer? Do chrome wheels belong on a Series rig? Is galvanized capping begging to be painted over in kandy kolor?

Again, I'm not talking about Dormies, Park Rangers, lightweights, or any of that stuff. I'm talking about the fluffy cheesy rebuilds that scream "hack job". If you want a Jeep, buy one.

Mods are great, it's gotta work for the end user. Some are done to a very high standard, like Ike or Mercedes Jim. But at some point one may have altered the vehicle's character to a point where it's now a totally different vehicle. Is a Land Rover body on a Jeep frame and drivetrain still a Land Rover? I say no. Is it bad or good? Neither. It just is.

I don't like to see any of these trucks crushed or even parted out. Some get resurrected from basket case condition and it would be a real feat to bring them back to factory spec. But they aren't making any more of them and I would rather see them as unmolested as possible. Just my personal preference.

We will probably see the value of original/factory spec Land Rovers continue to go up for this reason. The classic car hobby has shown this time and again. Did you ever think you would see Dodge Challengers or Woody wagons become so valuable? We're talking six digits easy for a correct example. I don't know if a Series truck will ever approach that, and I don't care if they do, but they are climbing and it's hard to find them unmolested.

Originally Posted by NC Rover

So wouldn't you say the people who keep their rover completely original are going for a "look" as well?

No, I would say it's more about preserving what Land Rover created. Drive a stock 40 Ford, then drive a Pro Street 40 with all the billet crap and Coddington fluff. Totally different animals.

I would hate to see a field leak where we all stand around shaking our fingers at the wrong voltage regulator or the incorrect shade of black on the air cleaner, but at the same time I respect when people take the time to be exacting in a restoration. I've driven series trucks with that kind of authentic detail and they are a real hoot, like stepping back in time.

As for my years of ownership, eleven. Does that qualify me to have an opinion or will I have to wait longer? :D

JimCT

02-05-2008, 08:10 PM

Jim-ME

02-05-2008, 08:34 PM

There is performance and then there is Performance. When my memory isn't failing me I compare my current 1964 to the 1965 that gave me this sickness. My 64 will cruise at 6o mph and I still have gas pedal left while my 65 would only barely do 55 mph matted. I feel it is principally due to the 8:1 compression ratio engine in my current rig plus the Webber 1 barrel all combined with the 33X9:50-15 radial tires. I feel that you can improve on a standard Rover engine and improve performance using the items already mentioned. If you are after an engine that behaves like an 8 cyl which you can do with some of the 4 cyls out there then the Rover 4 cyl isn't up to it. I think it best to be very specific when one inquires about Rover engine modifications and what you really want instead of using the general term performance. My 2 cents
Jim

yorker

02-05-2008, 08:45 PM

I brought this up mainly because a new owner had asked here earlier if there was anything he could do to improve engine performance. The response was no, all you can do is a different engine. BS. Peirce manifold, 2-barrel carb, 2.5 cam, better breathign exhaust, a bit of head work, synthetic oils, they all help. A few HP when you start with only a few is a big improvement. I felt the answers kind of stepped on his enthusiam, rather than giving a few helpful suggestions. Balance and blue-print and engine, see if that gets you a few HP.

Was it Ike who said that? KeveinNY or me?

You can sink a lot of $ into a 2.25 in the search for power but it is all pretty relative. It is like polishing a turd. ;)

A very nice 2.25l turd though. I've run through a good deal of the modifications myself- honestlyin retrospect I seriously question the practicality of them $ for $. The 2.25 is what it is and it is pretty good within those confines. If you want any good deal more your $ may be better spent elsewhere. If you try a different carb and exhaust and are still not pleased you'll probably want to look at something else for an engine rather than go 60 over pistons, 9.5 gas flowed head, etc.

junkyddog11

02-06-2008, 06:01 AM

NITROUS........:thumb-up:

S11A

02-06-2008, 09:42 AM

After a bit of searching, I found the nitrous article for which I was looking:

http://www.ag.auburn.edu/users/parmega/articles/neon/

Pretty funny (not to mention illegal), but the moral of the story is that you can make more power with any engine.

My sense is that if a person wanted to spend the bucks, he or she could probably make some relatively serious power with a stock 2.25. The longevity would depend on the strength of the stock mill and how much power it would handle.

If you started with the 5-main block, had it magnafluxed, balanced, and blueprinted, added better bearings, etc., it might make a good starting point.

Some head work, a 5-way valve job, and extrude hone the head and intake.

Then swap the cam, add roller lifters, add electronic ignition, fuel injection and an engine control unit (ECU), intake manifold, and swap the exhaust manifold for headers and a better exhaust.

I would also look at a low pressure turbo, maybe in the 4 - 5 PSI range, tuned for throttle response. Add low compression pistons.

Dyno tune.

Add ricey stickers and vinyl graphics (good for at least 50 BHP) :D

S11A

02-06-2008, 09:44 AM

And there is hope for us diesel owners:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10

S11A

02-06-2008, 09:52 AM

One note - the post above on building an engine was mostly a thought exercise - it would probably be cheaper and more of a sure thing to swap out for a 200 or 300 TDI and required parts...

Eric W S

02-06-2008, 10:27 AM

I thought the factory did build a 2.25 with near 200 HP? I remember hearing this rumour somewhere. I will have to review the pertinent pages in the "History of Land Rover" book.

ACR has EFI for the 2.25. Add that to the 2.8 block they have and it sounds like a nice little motor. Nearly as much as a new 300TDI though due to the exchange rate.

But if your looking for that sort of power from a series, as some posters have, your much better served with a V8 (Chevy, Ford, Rover) or another alternative power plant.

I think there is enough room in the community for V8 rovers, stock rovers, and Mercedes/Cummins rovers. I love reading about the swaps from folks like Merc Jim. Merc's stuff is very thought provoking and inspiring. Well if he did A I wonder If I could do B. . .

greenmeanie

02-06-2008, 10:51 AM

Add ricey stickers and vinyl graphics (good for at least 50 BHP) :D

Ah, you forgot the fart can silencer on the exhaust, big BOV and neon underlights.

I thought British North West used to have a page detailing a supercharged 2.25. I can't find it now as I suppose it does not fit in with their stock restoration image any more.

Cheers
Gregor

S11A

02-06-2008, 11:16 AM

I have heard that the violently colored silicone hose kit adds maybe 20 - 25 as well.

Eric W S

02-06-2008, 12:14 PM

Ah, you forgot the fart can silencer on the exhaust, big BOV and neon underlights.

I thought British North West used to have a page detailing a supercharged 2.25. I can't find it now as I suppose it does not fit in with their stock restoration image any more.

Cheers
Gregor

They do have a page. It's their Safari Four engine page. They mention custom built engines, including super and turbo charging in the text only.

Funny thing is that you never really hear about this engine. You'd think you run across some feedback somewhere on the web abouot it, but in 8 years I have never seen much if anything about it.

The last super charged four I saw recently was advertized for sale at Huddersfield inthe UK. Looked interesting...

EwS

NC Rover

02-06-2008, 01:00 PM

msggunny

02-06-2008, 05:07 PM

Ok, since everyone else is putting in their 2 cents worth here is mine.

If i had the money i would love to own a cherry Series II, fully restored. It would rarely leave the garage though.

I prefer my ratty Ex-MOD 88 though. I drive it to work, to hunt in, to go fishing in, etc. Its never going to win an award, and i am glad.

Some of the Rover owners i have seen seem to think that all Series Rovers must be 100% original, any thing other than stock or genuine LR is blasphemy, that painting the galv capping is horrible, that you cant milk a few extra HP out of the 2.25.

Good for them, i enjoy and actually understand where their thought process is going.

I love my Series, my Disco, and the last Disco i have owned. I can not see owning any other 4x4 from now on other than a LR.

But these things are tools, to be modified and worked over to suit the owners needs. They are not to be worshiped in their pristine original condition unless they are in a museum.

When i get the time, money, and my current engine expires in my SIII it will get replaced with something else, as will the axles, as will the transmission and tcase. And i am going to paint it the brightest yellow with black capping's. :eek:

Will this make it any less of a Land Rover?

I dont care. Its a tool that i use to get me from place to place, and i will still call it a Land Rover.

I still want a cherry SII 109 SW though......:D

And a 101 FC

And LW

And what ever else i can get my hands on....

Jim-ME

02-06-2008, 05:24 PM

Very well said!

SalemRover

02-06-2008, 07:18 PM

SIIA,

That was one funny article in a schadenfraude sort of way. The moral of the story is to NOT buy from auto rental places. Nitrous indeed.

-Jason

junkyddog11

02-07-2008, 06:30 AM

I meant Nitrous for the driver, although I suppose using it in the motor wouldn't hurt.

Terrys

02-07-2008, 06:46 AM

And there is hope for us diesel owners

Try Propane injection.

S11A

02-07-2008, 08:19 AM

Due to the "increasingly vigorous interest in British Northwest's Safari Four™ engine", check out the British Northwest web page:

http://www.olywa.net/land-roverco/safari_four_extra.htm

They "just might transform your reluctant Land-Rover into something of a world-beating champion!"

Apparently this causes new performance problems requiring solutions such as they "now offer 100 and 120mph speedometers".

Anyway, despite the humorous writing style, not much in the way of specifics were provided, and the "memo" as they called it does not mention forced induction. It does say a 40 - 50% greater BHP. That would put it around 100 BHP, almost as much as a 200 or 300 TDI. No mention of torque, however.

Ah, here's another page on their site:

http://www.olywa.net/land-roverco/engine.htm

It says "ignition to exhaust, including camshaft profile, induction systems, cooling, cylinder head design, fuel delivery, and component material". No mention of supercharging, and the photos don't show it either. It does show headers, probably an upgraded carb, distributor.

Might be a nice engine, despite the "BILLY MAYS HERE, WITH EXITING NEWS ON ORANGE GLO!!!" infomercial "memo". Memo to Billy Mays: remember to take your medications. :)

It would be interesting to check the price against a TDI. It sounds like both would have the same issues such as axles and transmission.

TSR53

02-07-2008, 10:00 AM

Might be a nice engine, despite the "BILLY MAYS HERE, WITH EXITING NEWS ON ORANGE GLO!!!" infomercial "memo". Memo to Billy Mays: remember to take your medications. :)

Funny you. Nice, good laugh this morning - thanks! :popcorn:

SalemRover

02-07-2008, 01:01 PM

In case you can't do the nitrous, there is always this.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/11/dei.jpg

Eric W S

02-07-2008, 01:05 PM

Forced induction was on the site at one time. I remember seeing and asking why?

I asked what one would cost and was told it was roughly twice that of the Turner. That was like 6 years ago.

I really don't think that there is that much to the engine myself. You can order cost of the upgrades such as the ignition from our hosts. Headers? Probably have a set made to spec locally. You get the idea

Anyway, Planning a 2.5 cam, petronix (or maybe an MSD) ignition on a newer distributor, maybe a turner head. Have to see what the local engine builders think and charge vs. the turner head.

greenmeanie

02-07-2008, 01:45 PM

For what it's worth I have the following set up:
- 2.25 3 mb original block/crank & pistons.
- Turner stage 1 8:1 head.
- 2.5L cam.
- Newtronics electronic ignition (I got it cheap from the UK) on a Ducellier dizzy with a Lucas sport coil providing the juice.
- Magnecor leads on NGK plugs.
- Rochester carb fed with the original mechanical pump and sucking through a K&N on the road. I keep the oil bath for off road work.
- Some wierd 55A externally regulated Delco alternator that is getting swapped for a Delco 10SI now I have the Pangolin mounts.

This set up has a LOT of miles on it now thanks to my old Phoenix to Tucson daily commute. It all got put together over a few years when stuff wore out.

I had a good drive in to work today - only 7 miles now. The engine revs very freely up to 4K and pulls hard up to about 60 mph on 30" rubber. With the Roverdrive she will howl along at 70 mph on the freeway with enough oomph for another 5mph or so if given some warning. Running this set up makes the truck very driveable as my every day vehicle. The engine, however, is never gong to be a hot rod and when wound up sucks fuel like it's going out of style. You are deinitely not revving at the optimum point in the torque/power curve.

If you want to have something that will eat up the freeway, especially for long runs, you need to look at a repower and probably the gearing too.

Cheers
Gregor