Weak starter - slow turn? Ideas anyone?

[highmile]

Hey guys!

We had a nice warm day here in Colorado Springs on Saturday. I decided to have a go at trying to start the old Series IIA 109 NADA. I bought a new battery, changed the spark plugs, and oil. Here's what was happening.
1st try - only hear starter spinning, but nothing engaging. I try banging on the starter with hammer thinking that maybe the starter was stuck. Next few turns of the key to start produce very slow turns of the engine... Then I just got clicks from the solenoid, where the starter sounded like it was not doing anything. Tried cranking the engine around a few times. Again, going back to the key to start was more of the same ...very slow turning of the engine.

Any ideas? What steps should I try next? Is this signs of a weak/bad starter?

Thanks in advance!

[Erin]

Hi There,
Others might write in with a laundry lits of things to try but heres my 2 cents. I revived an old series engine from a junkyard and the slow starter in my case was a lousy connection from the starter button to the starter. It might be worthwhile to crawl underneath and clean up all of those heavy-duty wire connections. After I did that mine started up just fine.
Good luck

[highmile]

Erin

Thanks for the tip! I'll check the starter connections the next warm day we have. Of course after a beautiful sunny day in the 60's on Saturday, it is very windy and snowing today.

[Linus Tremaine]

I bet that rover has been sitting an awfully long time. When you are trying to revive an old engine (or start a new one) you should probably take out all the spark plugs and put some oil down in there, not much but a few table spoons. Also, pull off the valve cover and pour oil over all the rockers. once that is done, crank the engine with the plugs out until you have some oil pressure. This will minimize any wear damage that might happen when you are trying to start an engine that hasnt run for a long time.

Trust me, with the cost of engine parts for the NADA truck, you dont want to speed up the wear on any of the bits. I have just rebuilt the head on mine. All the parts had to come from england.

As for your problem, a good check of all the cable connections is the best place to start. The starter may just be bad from sitting. Could have rust inside and corrosion on the commutator/bushings. You may have to take it off and clean it out.

Or you could just sell the whole thing to me...

[highmile]

Linus

Thanks for the advice! I have a spare NADA 6 cylinder engine that came with the truck. Hopefully, if I need any parts for the engine, I can find some use from the spare.

Thanks!

[Jeff Aronson]

If you put in a fresh battery, then you want to know if the connections to the starter are in good shape. Remove the ground wire on the battery and then remove each starter connection, one by one, and clean up the terminal or connector. Also, you have a ground from the starter to the frame. Make certain that wire is tight and the connection to the frame is clean.

Do you have a battery tester? You should have 12.5-13 volts at rest. Turn on the key and push the starter button. Do you have the same voltage? If not, then you have a connection problem. You can always bypass the starter button by holding a long screwdriver from across the two bolts on the starte button, against the bulkhead. Again, if nothing changes, then your starter button is fine.

Turn on the lights when you start the car. Do they dim? Do the interior gen/oil/choke lamps dim? That will tell you that you have power going to the starter, and likely, enough.

If you can get it to turn, hold in the clutch as it tires to start. It will relieve some pressure and give the starter a little less resistance.

Good luck,

Jeff

[highmile]

Jeff

Thanks for the advice!

Starter button? Am I missing something or is this something that was on earlier IIA's? I am just turning the key to start.

As far as lights go...that is another question. When I flip the light switch down 1 click, I get taillights and front parking lights and no headlights. When I flip the switch down 2 clicks, I get taillights and no front parking lights or headlights. I haven't had a chance to check the bulbs in the headlights or anything else elctrical for that matter, but could there be some fuses causing the problem? Are there more than the 2 obvious fuses attached to the bulkhead in the engine compartment?
While I am on the subject. I also do not have brakelights. Is there a brake light switch someplace? I am presuming that my tailights and braklights are the lower lamps on the rear and the turn signals lamps are the upper lamps, correct?

Thanks!

[Jeff Aronson]

>Starter button? Am I missing something or is this something that was on earlier IIA's? I am just turning the key to start.

LOL - head smack time! If you have a later II-A, then you have a key start.

>As far as lights go...that is another question. When I flip the light switch down 1 click, I get taillights and front parking lights and no headlights.

That makes sense

> When I flip the switch down 2 clicks, I get taillights and no front parking lights or headlights. I haven't had a chance to check the bulbs in the headlights or anything else elctrical for that matter, but could there be some fuses causing the problem? Are there more than the 2 obvious fuses attached to the bulkhead in the engine compartment?

The only electrical items that are fused are those that require the key to be "on" in order for them to work, such as the turn signals. Do you have working blinkers with the key on? The taillights, parking lights and headlights are not fused.

The headlights and parking lights are on the same wiring harness that goes to the front of the truck. If you have a foot dmmer switch, check the connections of the wires to the dimmer. That would affect your headlights.

The tailights and parking lights are run through the ignition switch and/or that front wiring harness. Since you know the bulbs are working on the parking lights, check the bullet connectors that run inside the wiring harness alongside the battery box. You're looking for corroded connections.

The headlights can fail if and when a wire connection behind the grill comes loose or gets corroded. Remove the grill and find the rubber connector. Clean it out.

Also, you should check the light siwtch on the dash. If there is a failed connection inside the switch, or at the wires, that would explain why one position works but the second one does not.

>While I am on the subject. I also do not have brakelights. Is there a brake light switch someplace? I am presuming that my tailights and braklights are the lower lamps on the rear and the turn signals lamps are the upper lamps, correct?


The brake light switch is under the car, around the seat box area. You'll see it along the brake lines in the center of the car, with a couple of wires coming out of it. I once had my wires fall off there and just had to crimp them on to restore service.

Good luck,

Jeff

[highmile]

Thanks again! Hopefully the weather will be warm and I will have some time this weekend to dive into all the suggestions and troublshooting that you guys have suggested.

Thanks!

[highmile]

I had about 5 minutes last night to check out the lighting issues I described above. I tried flipping the light switch a few times, and now the headlights are working just fine.

Are the front parking lights supposed to be on or off when the headlights are on? My parking lights are off.

Is there a good method or trick to checking whether or not the brake light switch is working? Currently, I do not get brake lights when pushing on the brake peddle. Not sure if it might be a bad switch, bad connection to switch, or a different issue altogether

Thanks!

[Momo]

If you have firm pedal pressure then the switch ought to be fine- just trace any connection faults with a test light...

[highmile]

I played with trying to get the starter to turn again on Sunday afternoon. Still a weak, barely turning of the starter, so the little elves living in my garage did not fix the issue while I was doing other stuff in life. Anyway, I pulled out my voltmeter. (by the way, I am by no means knowledgeable about electricity or what it should be doing particularly in an old Rover). The voltmeter reads 12 volts from the battery with everything off, but when I turn the key, it reads right at 9 volts. It reads 9 volts at the starter, it reads 9 volts at the solenoid. Should it still be at 12 volts? I have checked most of the big connections and they seem to be good and tight. Anything I should look for at the connections and grounds? Should I clean them in some fashion? Ideas?

Thanks!

[highmile]

It may still be a bad connection somewhere. I tried jumping the solenoid by using a jumper cable between the postive battery and the starter. It is the same scenario. The starter is trying to turn the engine, but the engine is barely turning. Does this sound like a weak starter issue or something else? Is the starter always engaged in the engine or is it supposed to be disengaged and have a little time to buildup momentum to turn the engine. Thughts?

Thanks!

[StX_Rovers]

I might have missed someone else mentioning it but the key has to be on for the brake lights to work. At least that is the way it is on our 67 2a petrol 88 and 67 2A 109 diesel. Another way to check the wiring for the brake lights is to connect the ends of the wires together with a short jumper wire. you still need the key to be on. If the lights work replace the switch. If you are quick you should not have to bleed the brakes, as I believe the NADA trucks have the hydraulic switch. The switches are readily available as they were common on many British cars, including our 63 MG Midget.

[SafeAirOne]

Did you disconnect the battery terminals and clean both the battery posts AND the battery wire terminals? Tight terminals don't necessarily indicate a good, conductive path for electircity to flow, and if you jumped from the battery to the starter, chances are that you clamped to the battery wire TERMINALS, not the posts themselves, resulting in the same (poor) electrical path.

Also check/clean the contact surfaces where the big wire off the battery connects to the starter solenoid.

Ensure you have a good connection between the starter grounding strap and the engine block and the engine block to the chassis as well as the battery ground wire to the chassis or block (whatever it's connected to--I forget).

[Daurie]

I've had my headlight switch act like you describe. It turned out to be the switch itself. Try removing the switch and making the connections yourself. Take note of what wire went where! Locate the constant hot W/ volt meter and then you can connect each of the other remaining wires to ensure your wiring is not at fault. Can't remember off hand but should have one hot one to headlights/dimmer one to marker lamps and one i think going to instrument lights somehow.. After making those connections all lights should be on. It sounds like you can get all the lights on at some position of the switch so a bad switch would be a good bet.

As far as your starter goes like has been said previously, check all connections not just for tightness but clean contacting surfaces too. Been through that more than once! Even though the battery is new, put a charger on it at low ampreage and make sure its topped off. All batterys have some internal resistance and will drain themselves over time. No telling how long it was on the shelf.

Good luck!