now ludwig wont start at all, please help

[autoguy]

well we fiddled with the timing and now ludwig wont start at all, he was at least running, but he still had the knock when in gear and letting the clutch out, but now he wont start at all, we tried resetting the timing to 0 TDC, re-gapped the points, he is getting gas to the carb and to the plugs, number one and two cylinder plugs look gassy/flooded, he is getting spark, the compression test we did again still shows low 80-100 psi, although we had to run the test on a cold engine since he wont start so it is probably not very accurate, he is puffing smoke out the exhaust every once in a while like he wants to start, and he was backfiring through the carb a couple of times but not now

we checked the vacuum advance and it is working

we figure the condenser has died so i ordered a new one and a new set of points, we are thinking if that doesn't do it that maybe he hopped timing at the chain, or it is the head gasket, we are getting frustrated, please help :)

i am about half tempted to stick the spare v8 i have in him :)

[greenmeanie]

It may be stupid, but are you sure you've not got the timing set up 180° out. Make sure you get piston #1 TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.

Cheers
Gregor

[autoguy]

It may be stupid, but are you sure you've not got the timing set up 180° out. Make sure you get piston #1 TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.

Cheers
Gregor
yep, we even double checked by pulling number 1 plug and putting a screw driver in to feel the piston but we will double check it :)

[Bostonian1976]

get a pertronix electronic ignition and call it a day :)

[autoguy]

get a pertronix electronic ignition and call it a day :)

I'm seriously thinking about it :) should I go with the petronix or the crane ?

we might have figured out one problem, we did not have the choke gap set right on the carb

[yorker]

I'm seriously thinking about it :) should I go with the petronix or the crane ?

we might have figured out one problem, we did not have the choke gap set right on the carb

It should still try to start- do you have spark at the cylinders?

[gudjeon]

Also, if not already done, check the plug wire order. When checking for #1 comp stroke, you can put your thumb over the plug hole. This can make sure both valves are closed while cranking over by hand. Feeling for the piston top alone has a 50/50 chance of being on compression stroke. The piston is at TDC on the exhaust and compression stroke.

If the plugs are wet w/fuel, there could also be the possibility thats its seriously flooded. Remove plugs and let cylinders dry out for a while.

Good luck

[Daurie]

Did you pull the valve cover and verify it was at TDC with both valves closed? Just checking the obvious as I'm sure you have as well. :thumb-up: Have you inspected the valvetrain and verify it's all working as required?

[autoguy]

I know know why they called the rover in the gods must be crazy, the anti Christ :)

now he does not seem to be getting gas in the carb I think the fuel filter is cloged I can see bits of stuff in it, I just put that on last week too, and he ran then
I will pull the valve cover to make sure it is on TDC :)

yep I have spark at the plugs :)

we got the choke gap set and it tried to start, we had the timing at 3 degrees, I am thinking of setting it back to 0 and trying again Tuesday, we ran ou of daylight today

[yorker]

if it has sat a long time there could be a lot of crap in the fuel tank so it wouldn't be too surprising if the filter plugged up, next time buy 3 or 4 of them and toss the spares in your tool box and behind the seats.

Sometimes it really pays to flush out the tank and replace all the fuel lines/fuel pump when you start with a truck that has sat for any time.

[autoguy]

if it has sat a long time there could be a lot of crap in the fuel tank so it wouldn't be too surprising if the filter plugged up, next time buy 3 or 4 of them and toss the spares in your tool box and behind the seats.

Sometimes it really pays to flush out the tank and replace all the fuel lines/fuel pump when you start with a truck that has sat for any time.

aye recon the fuel filter is clogged, I will buy a couple of the cheap fuel filters the time, I bought a fancy mr gasket fuel filter, cost $10 bucks and ya can't clean it :( at least with a $10 cigar I can enjoy it

Daurie, yep the valve train is working, we checked it the other day :)

[greenmeanie]

if it has sat a long time there could be a lot of crap in the fuel tank.

Any military truck of that age will have crud in the tank from getting filled from jerry cans when in service use. They do use some form of paint to try and keep corrosion in the cans under control but it usually ends up flaking off too and adding to the brew. The screen on the filler neck will stop the big stuff but the rest pours stright on in.

It'll save a lot of headaches in the furture to pull the tank, clean it, fix any leaks and then seal it.

Cheers
Gregor

[Tim Smith]

Kinda doubt that you jumped timing on the chain. I suspect everyone else is pointing you in the right direction with the dirty tank and replacing points. Your compression isn't horrible but it should run with a reading like that.

If I were you, I'd go ahead and get a carb rebuild kit, points, wires, plugs, cap and rotor which should be about $100. Give it an absolutely thorough tune up.

Then drop the tank get rid of the old fuel and clean the tank. Another post about POR 15 (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464) had a great note about getting a radiator shop to steam clean the tank.

I'd also seriously consider replacing the fuel lines and making damn sure the fuel pump isn't fouled. You can usually hand pump the older ones to check.

The thing has been sat a long time so lets get anything that might be questionable out of the picture.

[daveb]

autoguy:

Your problem is that you are trying random ideas based on hunches and false clues (I know, I do it all the time) and it is not working. It's is now time to step back and start following a disciplined, orderly approach to your problem.

Here is is a surefire recipe to get your engine running. If you try all this and it still doesn't start, then come back and try us again. by the way, you should use new cap, rotor, plugs, and wires for this to be really sure everything is kosher.


Follow these steps in order

1. find a helper

2. remove intake elbow from top of carb

3. remove number 1 spark plug and connect to corresponding wire from distributor. brace the plug or hold it with non-conductive something or other and hold it close to a metal object in the engine bay. have your helper crank the engine over a few times. you should see a strong blue spark, if not diagnose and repair per the FSM until you do.

3a. Remove spark plugs, clean with brake cleaner and wire brush, or replace with new. Gap plugs per FSM and set them aside for now.

4. disconnect white lead (coil +) from ignition coil or otherwise disable ignition and remove fuel line from carb. hold loose end of line in a glass jar. have your friend crank the engine over a few times. you should see a good strong pulsing stream of fuel. if not, diagnose and repair per the FSM

5. Reconnect fuel line and with your foot off the throttle (igntion still off) crank the engine a few times to ensure the carb float bowl is full.

6. Peer down the carb and have your helper push the throttle to the floor a few times. you should see a decent squirt of fuel from the accelrator pump. if not, diagnose and repair per the FSM.

7. Again, looking down the carb, have your helper push the accelerator down one more time and hold it. Look to make sure the throttle plate is open all the way (fully vertical)

8. Reconnect the ignition coil. If you have followed everything so far, you should have spark and gas. leave the spark plugs out for now.

9. Now remove the valve cover. Set the valve clearances per the FSM. (.010 intake and exhaust, hot or cold) it should be easy to turn the engine by hand with the plugs removed.

10. remove distributor cap, remove rotor and set point gap per the FSM

11. With the valve cover still off, you should now be familiar with which valves are exhaust and which are intake. Again making sure ignition is off, have the helper crank the engine over by hand using the hand crank or other means. Watch for the number 1 intake valve to open. stop. now you know the number 1 piston is on the intake stroke, and the next stroke will be compresssion, so...now keep turning but watch for the mark on the crank pulley to come around. align it with the 3btdc or 6 btdc mark on the timing cover per the FSM. if you don't have marks on the pulley and timing cover, use the marks on the flywheel also per the FSM. Do not turn the engine from this position. replace the spark plugs.

12. replace rotor. it should be pointing towards one of the terminals on the cap. that terminal is where the plug wire for number 1 goes. replace the cap and plug wires following the firing order 1-3-4-2. keeping in mind the distributor rotation is counter clockwise. Mark the wires or cap terminals so you can refer to them later if need be.

13. Loosen distributor clamp by turning the pinch bolt. not the one that threads in into the block. place a 12v test light's clip on the LT lead on the distributor (coil -, AKA the skinny wire going to the coil) and the other side on a good ground. have your buddy turn the ignition on but do not crank the engine.

14. Rotate the distributor aabout 25 degress counter clockwise. The test light should not be lit. Now rotate clockwise until the light just comes on. When the light comes on hold the distributor in that position and re-tighten the clamp bolt.

15. Reconnect everything. Don't mess with the carb idle settings unless they have bene disturbed, in which case, return them to their baseline settings per the FSM.

the engine should now start easily.

[autoguy]

Kinda doubt that you jumped timing on the chain. I suspect everyone else is pointing you in the right direction with the dirty tank and replacing points. Your compression isn't horrible but it should run with a reading like that.

If I were you, I'd go ahead and get a carb rebuild kit, points, wires, plugs, cap and rotor which should be about $100. Give it an absolutely thorough tune up.

Then drop the tank get rid of the old fuel and clean the tank. Another post about POR 15 (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464) had a great note about getting a radiator shop to steam clean the tank.

I'd also seriously consider replacing the fuel lines and making damn sure the fuel pump isn't fouled. You can usually hand pump the older ones to check.

The thing has been sat a long time so lets get anything that might be questionable out of the picture.

aye, dropping and cleaning the tank is next, but it looks fairly clean compared to the drivers side tank and the gas is clear

the points,wires, and rotor and dizzy all look new as do the rest of the ignition pieces, i ordered a new set of points, i should have ordered wires too, the mechanical fuel pump, is disconnected, i put an electric fuel pump in and wired it up :) i cleaned the fuel lines, i shot carb cleaner thru them and compressed air via the air compressor :) dad rebuilt the carb just last week too :)

daveb, thanks i printed that out and will do it once my helper (dad) gets home this evening :):cheers:

greenmeanie, the passenger tank is fairly clean, but the drivers tank is considered industrial waste :) the gas is varnished something fierce, so i am using the pass tank directly, it has new gas in it, i will drop both tanks and clean them after i get ludwig running again :)