Smiths Tachometer

[S11A]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is a Smiths tachometer that would work in place of the second large guage (the multi-function one)?

Since my engine is diesel, I was thinking of using one of the kits that supplies a crank-mounted magnet and block-mounted sensor and then running the signal to an electrical tach.*

Are most of the old Smith's tachs mechanical?

* = I found a couple of options for converter boxes in case the pickup is not outputting the expected signal for the gauge; I can post links to those if anyone is interested.

I checked Nisonger but they were not able to help, so I figured I would try once more before giving up on the idea of getting a stock-looking one and start looking at VDO or other.

Thanks in advance!

[S11A]

That was post #100. Woohoo! :)

[Bertha]

How about one from an MGB. They had both electrical and mechanical, depending on the year.

[Jim-ME]

Try http://www.holden.co.uk. They have them I think.
Jim

[siiirhd88]

The Triumph Spitfire and GT6, MGA, MGB, MG Midget /AH Sprite to '67 used the same diameter gauge as the Series cluster. The Spitfire and GT6 were typically cable driven, as was the MGA and MGB to mid '65 or so. The '68 up MGB and Midget use a smaller diameter gauge. The Jaguar XJs also used a gauge the same size, but they would have 6 or 8 cylinder works. In the past I have taken the works from a U.S. made aftermarket tach and inserted them into the British gauge..... but I've never tried to electrically tach a diesel.

Bob

[Eric W S]

http://www.caigauge.com/Smiths_Classic_Instruments.htm

They are still made. Google brings up several sites offering them.

EwS

[TeriAnn]

I've had an MGB electrical tach in my Land Rover for nearly 25 years now.
'68 & newer are negative earth & they do fit the the large hole in the Series instrument panel. They require the voltage stabilizer used in later Series rigs.

I've no idea what would be best for a diesel though.

[Erin]

Hey SIIA,
Can you post links for the tach sensors and converters? I'm trying to tackle that same problem as well. I have also heard that you can use the alternator to send the tach signal. But I'm not sure it is as consistent as the sensor type.
Thanks

[S11A]

Thanks all.

TeriAnn - thanks for the MGB lead. That sort of broke the logjam as it were. I nowthink I have a better handle on what I am looking at.

I think I need to hack one together. The following one (from a TR4; TR3s are very similar) is very close in terms of style, number font, etc.:

http://i15.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/e2/5f/86d7_1.JPG

The redline is going to be wrong, and the white circles in the center are not right, but very very close. (The white circles are on the matching speedo, but not my speedo). I can replace the chrome bezel with a black one.

It is mechanical, however. The later electric ones such as the MGB ones are not really that close looks-wise:

http://i6.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/cb/3b/a6_1.JPG

http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/e5/3e/4f6e_1.JPG

So I am now considering yanking the guts out and replacing with electronic innards. Here is one article that discusses this:

http://www.britishcarforum.com/lore/attachment.php?id=12

This can be done, but has a problem in terms of using the MGB ones - they go to 7K, and the old one with correct face only goes to 6K. The scale is different. The converters I will post about separately (for Erin) will match the revs appropriately, but that won't fix the scale issue. That will need a bit more thought...

[S11A]

Here is the Classic tachometer from Nisonger's web site:

http://www.nisonger.com/images/mechanical-tachometer.gif

They recommended that the Cobra line of Smiths gauges might match better:

http://www.nisonger.com/images/tachometer.gif

http://www.nisonger.com/images/speedometerelect2.gif

But I don't think they do - the TR4 one above is almost an exact match...

[S11A]

Erin,

Here is a link to the tach converter that will use the W terminal on the alternator (mine I believe does not have this, sigh):

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=128/prd128.htm

I think you might be able to do a minor bit of wiring to some alternators that don't have the W terminal to make this work (I think Ike and others posted some links to that info or that would get you started).

Dakota Digital also makes similar gizmos to convert 6- or 8-cylinder tachs for use on 4-cylinder engines.

This might also work:

http://www.drdetailshop.com/454t.htm

That doesn't require the W wire.

The alternator solutions are not supposed to be perfectly accurate and the second one seems even less accurate...

Here is more of a complete solution from Dakota Digital, but this still might require the # of cylinder converter box if the tach you choose was from a 6 or 8:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=129/prd129.htm

You would have to fiddle with mounting it so that the sensor can "see" the teeth on the flywheel as well as converting the number of teeth into the appropriate output.

There is another method that involves gluing a magnet to a pulley on the front of the engine and mounting a sensor to the block, but I seem to have not bookmarked that site. A bit of searching on google should turn that up.

[S11A]

Here is the speedo that matches the TR4 tach above. This one has the white rings around the central part of the dial. Mine looks much like this except that in only goes to 70 MPH, and does not have the trip counter or white rings.

http://i15.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/db/aa/88c3_1.JPG

The TR3 tach appears to also have the white rings...

It appears that the correct one is a Jaeger (my speedo is), and the series appears to be RN14xx, e.g.- RN1417, 1409, etc. I am still hoping to find the right part w/o the white rings. If I can't find that then this should still look pretty correct.

Unless this would be part of Kellogg's "dichotomy between the ad copy and the nature of my findings": http://cgi.ebay.com/Land-Rover-series-I-II-IIa-III-appraisal_W0QQitemZ230219988978QQihZ013QQcategoryZ 50341QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)

:rolleyes:

Oh, the "heartache and disaster"!

[S11A]

OK, found a picture of my speedo (suppress visions of Borat in the lime green Speedo now):

http://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/90/24/6c6e_1_b.JPG

[S11A]

TR3 tach for reference:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/a4/a4/a08d_1.JPG

[S11A]

I bought a tach from a TR4, as pictured above, and am eagerly awaiting its arrival so I can tear it apart :-)

One additional note to the info above: The "right" gauge for matching my original speedo appears to be the RN1417. The glass on the RN1417 is flat, as opposed to the domed glass on the RN1409.

The bezel is chrome on either one, so I will probably be putting in a call to Nisonger or Caerbont for the black bezel.

Once I get the one I bought apart, I might try this one for the guts:

http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=2464&sid=1

It has a 6K redline, is electronic (as opposed to mechanical), and is new so there should be no doubts as to it working (I have also been looking at some of the vintage British gauges, but you either don't know what you are going to get or else they want hundreds for the rebuilt ones).

[S11A]

Actually, the following Autometer tach might be perfect, since it is specifically made for a diesel, and includes a trigger that is mounted to the alternator, thus eliminating the need for the Dakota Digital converter that would otherwise be needed for converting between the W or other signal to the signal a gasoline tach is expecting:

http://www.autometer.com/productPDF/608.pdf

[S11A]

That last Autometer only goes to 5K, so it will not have the same scale as the the TR4 gauge I bought. I am now looking at a marine tach, and will post more details of that once I find out if it will work.

In the mean time, here is the diagram on how to wire a Delco alternator to provide a signal for the tach (i.e.- more or less the W terminal):

http://www.66rover.com/rover%20rebuild/052907/slides/PICT0305.html

[JayGoss]

British Northwest Land Rover Co has something- don't think it's Smith's...but it looks good IMO. Here's a link to a pic:

http://www.land-roverco.com/images/cars/gypsy/gypsy08.jpg

Hope this is helpful.

[S11A]

Jay,

Thanks for the link to the photo. I think it is a Smiths...

[JayGoss]

Woops- you're right! I like the fact that it has the "red zone"- although I've never revved a rover engine anywhere near that! Not sure what the "proper" redline is for a stock 2.25L motor...maybe something to keep in mind if you're shooting for accuracy vs. appearance.

[Clive]

Apparently there was a real "Land Rover" tach...at least for a SIII...

http://wave.prohosting.com/leepher/pangolin/library/gauges/gauges.html

[S11A]

Thanks Clive! It looks like the URL contains the word "pangolin", so I am guessing this is from Ike's site (or an older version thereof)?

From the looks of the screw next to it, I am guessing this is not one of the larger gauges, but probably the 52mm ones?

Might have to keep searching.

[Clive]

I looked into having a LR series replica one built by Smiths in Swansea (Wales, UK), now the Caerbont Gauge factory, and they will make one....for a price, of course!