first road trip

[siii8873]

I finally put my 73 SIII on the road yesterday and took it for ride. Most everything went well and operated as expected. Having not spent many hours driving one of these vehicles I have one question. How loud should the gear noise be from the transmission / transfer case , overdrive? I understand that there isn't much sound deadening material between the cab and the gears, particularly without the middle seat in place. There is quite a bit of gear noise.
Secondly I definitly have a problem of some sort and this could be related to question 1. When moving slowly 1st / 2nd gear during the transition of going from an engaged clutch to and engaged clutch there is a clunky sound which sound like it is coming from the overdrive. I had a friend take a ride with me, removed the cover plate and listened to the sound. It seems to disappears when the clutch is fully engaged or fully disengaged. I'm sure thes sounds could be heard here but be from a differnt source.
During my rebuild I did not disassemble the transmission, transfer case overdrive units. I did replace all the shaft seals, input , rear and forward drive shafts. I did seperate the gearbox from the engine. I also have trouble running in first gear at a steady slow speed. The truck wants to surge/buck with the clutch disengaged. This problem is not present when doing any accelerating or engine braking (load on gears).
I was thinking of removing the overdrive to diagnose if that is the problem. I'm not sure what replaces the overdrive at the rear of the gearbox if it's removed.
thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[galen216]

There is a big gear and cover plate that replaces the OD, if you don't have it you can't move without the OD in place.

Gear whine is pretty normal, they are pretty loud.

[autoguy]

There is a big gear and cover plate that replaces the OD, if you don't have it you can't move without the OD in place.

Gear whine is pretty normal, they are pretty loud.

I have the cover that goes where the OD does if you want I can take a Pict and post it :)

[sven]

they are pretty loud.

Yes, especially if you have a hardtop without a headliner. Its like a tin can in there!

[galen216]

Yes, especially if you have a hardtop without a headliner. Its like a tin can in there!

I have no idea what you are talking about.:p

[galen216]

This is a stupid question but is the OD engaged? The only reason I ask it that when I bought my current truck the PO didn't know Rovers and had been driving the truck around in OD all the time. He didn't even know he had one till someone told him. FWIW I don't know you or your level of Rover knowledge but the handle goes back towards the seatbox to disengage.

[Tim Smith]

Gear whine, yes that is normal but to a point. I have been very impressed with Lucas oil which may or may not be found at your local Autozone. Once you are sick of the noise, go ahead and drain all the 90wt fluids and switch it with this stuff or something better. Unless there is something wrong in your gear box(s) you should be surprised by reduced the sound is.

The clanging noise sounds familiar. I had a 109 that had a combination of loose/well used gears and a sticky ebrake. You can try pulling the ebrake on a little to see if the added tension gets rid or the sound. If thats it, then you can back off the ebrake. I bet there is oil in there coming out of the output shaft and gooing up the shoes against your drum but take a look for yourself.

If pulling the ebrake up doesn't make any difference, then I'd wager that your clutch plate spring packs are weak (causes bouncing effect when slipping the clutch) and/or that your clutch plate has a little oil on it (makes it sticky). Don't worry, neither of those things should leave you stranded it's just annoying. If driving the truck around doesn't get rid of any stickiness that may be on your clutch, you'll need to get used to dropping the clutch once the truck is just slightly moving forward instead of slipping it like you might normally do. Either that or pull the clutch. :mad:

That is my .02 worth.

[Jeff Aronson]

Are you running Warn or Selecto hubs up front? If you are and they are engaged - or if your not running selectable hubs - you might have a binding of the u-joints on the front or rear propshaft. That would also cause some bucking in first gear with the clutch disengaged.

The emergency brake adjuster in another good point. I once helped a fellow out whose car was also making a similar noise at slow speeds. Once I backed off the adjuster a bit, the noise went away.

Also, check your carb orifices for a clog in the idle jet. It will cause similar symptons at low speed but won't show up under acceleration or normal running.

Jeff

[siii8873]

I think there are possibly two problems. A little more information; I had the engine and gearbox out of this truck. I did not work on any of the internals to either, just output seal replacements. I also had the transmission brake completly apart, every thing rehabed,drum turned, new shoes, springs and adjuster parts. I had not adjusted the T Brake yet. The adjustment was loose and even with the handle fully engaged brake did not grab. I have since adjusted this brake so that I can just stop the vehicle fully engaged. I took the truck out for another test run and applied the brake very lightly and it sounded terrible, same type of clunk noise but worse. I have now removed the rear drive shaft and brake drum and plan on doing a test run to see if the noise clears up. I will do a test run tonight. The gearbos output shaft feels tight and smooth. All of the brake components look like new, no oil or dirt.
I think the surging is not related. I can't quite get the vehicle to idle as smooth as I would like. She is also puffing a little dark smoke at idle. I tried adjusting idle speed and slow idle jet (Zenith) but can't seem to get it correct. I did have the carb apart and rebuilt it including a thourogh cleaning of all ports / jets with carb cleaner.

[sven]

You shouldnt see any black smoke at idle. Does turning the mixture screw do nothing? If not, your Zenith is probably suffering from the "warp". Easily fixed by resurfacing the carb faces.

[siii8873]

I had an interesting evening. Took the truck for a test drive with just the front drive shaft in. Started down the street and had the noise. Turned around and started for home , bigger clunk, lost all power to the front wheels. Tried both high and low range and nothing. It appeared that the rear output hub was turning OK. Pushed it back to the driveway and got it into the garage. Found the front output hub loose on the gearbox. Seperated the hub from the driveshaft and out fell the castle nut and washer. Didn't see a cotter pin. I put it together last so I know who left that off. Reassembed the hub and installed the driveshafts and took it for a second test drive. There still is some noise from the overdrive when shifting under no power. Now I would say that it sounds more like a gear movement, a little more clangy / pronounced than I expected.
Played with the carb again. Can't get the engine to run well. Adjusting the low idle needle has almost no effect on the engine from 1/4 turn to 3turns while adjusting throttle stop. What is the initial set point for this valve. Still getting black smoke and cannot adjust carb to stop it.

[Tim Smith]

I had an interesting evening. Took the truck for a test drive with just the front drive shaft in. Started down the street and had the noise. Turned around and started for home , bigger clunk, lost all power to the front wheels. Tried both high and low range and nothing. It appeared that the rear output hub was turning OK. Pushed it back to the driveway and got it into the garage. Found the front output hub loose on the gearbox. Seperated the hub from the driveshaft and out fell the castle nut and washer. Didn't see a cotter pin. I put it together last so I know who left that off. Reassembed the hub and installed the driveshafts and took it for a second test drive. There still is some noise from the overdrive when shifting under no power. Now I would say that it sounds more like a gear movement, a little more clangy / pronounced than I expected.
Played with the carb again. Can't get the engine to run well. Adjusting the low idle needle has almost no effect on the engine from 1/4 turn to 3turns while adjusting throttle stop. What is the initial set point for this valve. Still getting black smoke and cannot adjust carb to stop it.
I'm getting annoyed with your problems. I wish your NY town wasn't so far away because I'd like to hear and see them in acton.

Rest assured, at least I'm still thinking.







As if that means anything... :p

[siii8873]

I have a zenith carb on my 73 SIII. I originally had an idle problem with my carb. The problem was with a solenoid port (believe this was for leaning the mixture when engine is turned off) that was open. I plugged this port with an end plug to keep the internal passage open as it would have been with the solenoid in the run mode), cleaned the carb, removed all jets and cleaned all ports with carb cleaner / air, replaced all jets, gaskets, idle screw with rebuild kit parts, reassembled.
The idle problem is gone but I still do not have any good adjustment with the idle mixture screw. There is some light black smoke in the exhaust which will not tune out with the idle mixture / throttle stop. No noticable engine change from 1/4turn to 3 turn open on the idle scew while adjusting throttle stop from near idle to fast idle for each 1/4 turn on idle screw. The vehicle has all new plugs, plug wires, distributor cap, points, condenser, rotor, timed to 3 deg btdc on cylinder #1.
The only problem with the carb that I noted from the rebuild is a slightly loose throttle plate shaft. I would expect this to make the engine run lean not rich per the smoke in the exhaust.
What should I look for, Ideas??

[sven]

You should look down the throat of the carb while its idling. There should be no visible gas flowing from the pump jet. If there is, then your carb is flooding. You wont be able to adjust the mixture at idle. Things to check would be the float level adjustment (probably set too high). Another big possibility is the infamous Zenith Warp syndrome: http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.carb.zenith.fix.html

[siii8873]

Big improvement with the vehicle. I removed the carb, tore it apart recleaned everything, lapped the faces, checked the float, preset the idle mixture to ~ 2 turns (Thanks Les), reasemmbled the carb. Was able to get some tuning with the idle mixture / throttle stop and fairly good operation of the engine.

[Daurie]

2 turns is about where I ended up too.. Funny thing is the carb is brand new and came with my truck still in box (had Weber installed when I got from PO). 2 turns is exactly where it was when I put it on but being myself I couldn't just leave it there!!!

[Tim Smith]

Hurray! Another one back in running order.

Good stuff. :thumb-up: