Snapped half-shafts, blown diff and other bits going in the tip

[Tim Smith]

This should probably go into "broken axle stories (http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3478)" thread but what the heck...

It's tough being one of my cars (http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817657708725762). This damage was *mostly found* after a club weekend a few weeks ago.

What's wrong with this diff?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/smithco1/SDQfSQ7bx4I/AAAAAAAABzI/_XcmaNZOajM/IMAGE_216.jpg?imgmax=512
http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817868162123650 (http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817868162123650)

Or these half shafts?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/smithco1/SDQfOQ7bxwI/AAAAAAAAByI/_Wfcos0pQBU/IMAGE_203.jpg?imgmax=512
http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817799442646786 (http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817799442646786)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/smithco1/SDQfPg7bxzI/AAAAAAAAByg/D41eJrDJHmg/IMAGE_207.jpg?imgmax=512
http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817820917483314 (http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817820917483314)

Camera phone video never does it justice but here you go
Getting stuck…
Z-EaX1142AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-EaX1142AM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-EaX1142AM)

Which leads to the winching...
yZf65O9SpGI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZf65O9SpGI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZf65O9SpGI)


Which is where we figured out my rear end was in trouble…
WbfRR_5Ceno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbfRR_5Ceno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbfRR_5Ceno)

I'm getting sick of replacing the oil in the rear so I'm now looking at throwing a couple of bucks at the truck so that I'll have a nearly bullet proof drive line. ;)

Since I've got a set of 24 spline half shafts sat on the shelf, the thought right now is a 24 spline Tru-Trak for the rear and a open 24 spline for the front. Haven't really put my eggs into one basket yet and would love to toss some Toyota axles (hypoids and disk brakes :D ) under there but I'm worried about the width of Toyota axles. It is a skinny lightweight after all.

I've seen Jim's SeriesTrek work and quite like the look of his kit but I'd rather not mess with the rover axle's short comings any more if I'm going to spend that much.

Any way, a bunch of thoughts floating around my head and just wanted to share with you folks.

Any advice? Please share.

Cheers!
:cheers:

PS: Those three half shafts were snapped within about a 3 month period and are the most recent. If you can't tell, they still have the 90 oil on them. But believe me, I've gone through my share of axles (http://picasaweb.google.com/smithco1/AfterPeteTheBeagle/photo#5202817928291665906) through the years.

This is what happens when you pull massive travel trailers or full 40 yard trash containers or sail boats or O&G cement trucks around with abandon. Let this be a word of caution to you all. :p

[TeriAnn]

Since I've got a set of 24 spline half shafts sat on the shelf, the thought right now is a 24 spline Tru-Trak for the rear and a open 24 spline for the front.
<<SNIP>>
Any advice? Please share.


I suggest the trutrack go on the front & that you put an ARB on the rear.

A TRUTRAC on the front will help your front wheels go where you point them and an ARB will work better in situations where both wheels at one end are slipping.

An automatic torque biasing diff transfers force to the axle that has the most resistance taking it away from the slipping axle. When both axles are slipping this kind of diff doesn't work unless you ride the brakes lightly.

A locked axle will work better in the rear when you are in loose or slippery stuff.

A Trutrac up front will give you added traction AND allow you to work the tyres to try and get help from tread edges.

So how many axles have you broken so far? I've broken six 10 spline rears & two 10 spline fronts, no 24 spline. Have you passed me by yet?

Anyway, them's my thoughts on the subject.

[Mercedesrover]

It’s no secret that the Toyota conversion is my favorite. Doing V6 style diffs front and rear along with 30-spline shafts make for a pair of axles you should never have to touch again. In an 88 I would go as far as saying you would never break anything, ever. (Probably not in a 109 either) Like we all know, guys are running heavy coilers with this set up and Keith’s axles and I’ve heard of no failures thus far. However, this isn’t cheap and you’ll spend well over $3k doing this swap with used diffs.

One set up that hasn’t been tried yet, but should, is leaving the front alone and installing a 4.70 T-100 diff in the back of a truck along with 30-spline axles. Although these diffs aren’t very common, they’re out there. Car-Part.com turns up a couple.

In an 88”, your front axle will probably not fail you. For under $1k you can put a used 4.70 Toyota diff and a pair of my rear 30-splines and you’ll never touch the rear axle again. You can also add an ARB if you want.

For the budget minded, this makes sense to me. Of course, you’ve already got a pair of my 24-spline…. I really want to see this Toyota 4.70 swap done. If you’re interested in doing it, send me an email and we’ll see if we can work out a deal with these axles.

Jim

[KevinNY]

Take him up on this Tim. :thumb-up:

I would like to point out that the pics and videos were taken on private land.

[Tim Smith]

Hi TJW,
I know what you mean about the trutrak. I'm not sold on it either and am trying to figure out all the options. Detroits seem aggressive and ARB's are too easy to break on the trail.

As for the half shafts, heck I have no idea how many we've gone through. With the price of scrap as it is right now, I should probably think about collecting them and turning them in. :D

Just so you know, I'm usually pretty smooth on the clutch. My breaks are probably half because the replacements have been out of the "extra parts" box and could have been well used to begin with. They are also probably half because I've been towing such heavy objects lately. Kind of crazy big things actually... ;)

---
Hey Jim,
I sent you an email. Thanks for the help! I may go Toyota yet.

---
Kevin,
Thanks for pointing that out. I tend to forget that not everyone actually knows me. :p

Cheers!

[autoguy]

crikey, you need to stop drag racing yer rover :D

[daveb]

arb in the back with 24 spline mercedes rover axles. cheapest and easiest upgrade. if you set up the arb properly you shouldn't have too many problems. i've never heard of one breaking, only the solenoids going out or the piping tearing. both easy enough to be avoided.

[Mercedesrover]

Seeing as you already have the axles, this is probably true. The Rover R&P is still the weak link, but in your 88 you'll probably get away with it. If that set up does fail, you can sell the axles, sell the ARB and move up to a Toyota set up.

[daveb]

i've personally never seen failure of the r&p without failure of the carrier pinion or side gears first. the 4 pinion carrier of the arb should provide for a much tougher setup.

is the toyota r&p tougher than the rover parts? or is it the lower pinion that is less likely to climb the ring gear?



Seeing as you already have the axles, this is probably true. The Rover R&P is still the weak link, but in your 88 you'll probably get away with it. If that set up does fail, you can sell the axles, sell the ARB and move up to a Toyota set up.

[Mercedesrover]

Not my picture but Keith's from Rover tracks.
The difference between the Rover pinion and the V6 Toyota.

[jp-]

I guess this is as good a time as ever to ask, because I'm in the same boat as Tim. What do I need to do a Toyota swap? What comes with your kit Jim? Just the axles?

Do I need to find my own used toyota diffs? What year and model toyota?

[yorker]

is the toyota r&p tougher than the rover parts? or is it the lower pinion that is less likely to climb the ring gear?

Far stronger, I'll see if I can get some pictures this weekend but Hypoid diff beats Spiral Bevel diff big time... Land Rover made a business of making trucks out of Car parts, Toyota took 3/4 and 1 ton truck parts and made TLCs...

[Mercedesrover]

From my site:

Two 30-spline rear axle shafts with integral drive flanges, two complete 30/24-spline front axle shafts including inner bearing race and seal race, and a Precision brand 371 universal joint (not installed for shipping): $2050.00 plus shipping.

Two 24-spline or 30-spline rear axle shafts with integral drive flanges. $550.00 plus shipping.

Two complete 24-spline front axle shafts including inner bearing race and seal race, and a Precision brand 371 universal joint (not installed for shipping). $1650.00 plus shipping.

Two 24-spline rear axle shafts, two complete 24-spline front axle shafts including inner bearing race and seal race, and a Precision brand 371 universal joint (not installed for shipping). $2050.00 plus shipping.

You'll need to source your own differentials, be it V6/Turbo style with or without e-lockers or the T100/Tundra style. Both style diffs have been used for years and are, in fact still being used in new Toyota trucks today. They are easy to find and relatively cheap to buy used. Aftermarket gear support is excellent for the V6 style and getting better for the Tundra style if you require anything different than the factory offerings. Just a note, the V6 style e-locker diff is most common in 4.10 although 4.30 and 4.56 e-lockers were also produced in smaller numbers. You can buy aftermarket gears all the way down to 5.29.

As mentioned, there is an elusive 4.70 ratio Tundra style diff that was used in the early 90s 1-ton T100. With this diff you can upgrade the rear to an extremely strong differential and 30-spline axles while leaving the front axle alone. This upgrade would serve most people very well and would be pretty inexpensive compared to front and rear Toyota swap.

jim

[yorker]

As mentioned, there is an elusive 4.70 ratio Tundra style diff that was used in the early 90s 1-ton T100. With this diff you can upgrade the rear to an extremely strong differential and 30-spline axles while leaving the front axle alone. This upgrade would serve most people very well and would be pretty inexpensive compared to front and rear Toyota swap.

jim

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/taco_3rd_member2.jpg

That is a really cool option, it has to approach or possibly exceed stock 1.24" 24 spline Salisbury strength AND provide more ground clearance.:thumb-up:

[jp-]

Jim, they all seem to be elusive. I did a quick search on ebay and could't find any with lockers. Am I looking in the wrong place? Do you have a secret source?

[yorker]

http://car-part.com/

http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/

http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/differentials.htm





info on diffs:

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/

http://www.sonoransteel.com/phong/retrofit_electric_locker.html



Electric locking 3rd member:
- 4.56 ratio -> #41110-3D010
- 4.30 ratio -> #41110-3D080
- 4.10 ratio -> #41110-3D030



Cable conversion for toyota e-lockers:
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/ChassisComponents/Lockers.html

[Mercedesrover]

If you're looking for a set of 4.10 e-lockers, just call your local junkyard. They're very easy to find.

[jp-]

Now we are getting somewhere.

Jim, have you tried to install a hi-mount front diff?

Also, the 4.56 gear set is very intriguing to me.

[TSR53]

Tim, hopefully this will make yaa feel a little better... I just got done watching the YouTube vids and LOVE your lightweight Land Rover. Everything you've done to it. The old skool Warn, paint, hardtop, wheel offset, the complete look. Perfect keeper.

[yorker]

Jim, have you tried to
install a hi-mount front diff?



do you mean high pinion? :confused:
http://www.marlincrawler.com/images/highpinion_608.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/pickup_diff.htm

[Mercedesrover]

I don't use the high-pinion front diffs as I run Mercedes diesels in my trucks and they would give me a clearance problem up front. I'm not a big fan of the h/p diffs but they're certainly an option.

jim

[Tim Smith]

Tim, hopefully this will make yaa feel a little better... I just got done watching the YouTube vids and LOVE your lightweight Land Rover. Everything you've done to it. The old skool Warn, paint, hardtop, wheel offset, the complete look. Perfect keeper.
Thanks but I have to admit that it came to me pretty much set up like that. It was a good find and has been a good truck but I can't take all the credit for the look.

Everyone else. This is exactly the sort of info I was hoping to get out of the group. Thanks all for the links and information. There is a lot to take in but this will help me make my decision.

Cheers!