Body tub rivets.. when did they Change over

[TJR]

Lots of good info on what types of rivets...etc in the archives , but does anyone know when/why they changed over to the "pop" style rivets for the rear tub galv. body capings?

My NAS Ser III (1973) does not have the dommed head aircraft style rivets as seen on many other landrovers..??

..Talbot

[daveb]

think it was SIII. my old 72 was the same as yours, all pop rivets.


Lots of good info on what types of rivets...etc in the archives , but does anyone know when/why they changed over to the "pop" style rivets for the rear tub galv. body capings?

My NAS Ser III (1973) does not have the dommed head aircraft style rivets as seen on many other landrovers..??

..Talbot

[Leslie]

Nope.... my '72 had dome-headed rivets on it. (Well, the ones that are such that you can't access the back of the rivet inside the tub, were pop rivets, but most are domed....).

I'd expect then, that your cappings have been replaced at one time. Perhaps during a repaint?

I've actually removed cappings from tubs from Series from throughout the 70's, maybe even from some the very early 80's, and they had domes. I don't know about once it went to the D110 and D90 in '83/'84, that may have been the changeover, and maybe it was even earlier, but, as of '76, '78, they were still leaving the factory w/ domed rivets.....

FWIW....

[Jim-ME]

To the best of my knowledge, all Series Rovers had hammer rivets (dome heads) where the back of the rivet was accessible. It wasn't until the NA Defender came about in 94 that they used pop rivets but they might have used pops on Defenders before then.
Jim

[daveb]

I'll have to look again. but I think you are mistaken. that truck had 58k miles on it and the original paint. its long gone anyway, no SIII stuff around here to look at. I'll be at the ROAV summer rally checkin' everbybody's rivets.

respectfully yours

dave



Nope.... my '72 had dome-headed rivets on it. (Well, the ones that are such that you can't access the back of the rivet inside the tub, were pop rivets, but most are domed....).

I'd expect then, that your cappings have been replaced at one time. Perhaps during a repaint?

I've actually removed cappings from tubs from Series from throughout the 70's, maybe even from some the very early 80's, and they had domes. I don't know about once it went to the D110 and D90 in '83/'84, that may have been the changeover, and maybe it was even earlier, but, as of '76, '78, they were still leaving the factory w/ domed rivets.....

FWIW....

[sven]

My 73 has mostly pop rivets and it appears to be original untouched bodywork. The only place that has dome rivets is the seat belt reinforcements.

[Leslie]

daveb and sven,

If anything could, a Series has the ability to have one roll off the assembly line put together one way, and the next one to roll off could have been quite a bit different....


But, what I know:

I am 100% positive that my '72 SIII had domed rivets; I cut them off myself.

I am 100% positive that I have personally cut domed rivets off of late-70's Series trucks that were imported from the UK during the first half off this decade.

Now, to be sure: there are some rivets that were pop-rivets, as you can't get behind the tub in certain places w/ a buck for the domed rivets... some of the ones on the back of the tub come to mind...

And, I can't speak for 'every' Series, nor your own Series, but, for every single Series I've personally dealt with, if the rivets down the side of the rear tub are pops, they've been replaced. Just my own experiences thus far....



Best,

[daveb]

I do recall that there were solid rivets on the bonnet.


daveb and sven,

If anything could, a Series has the ability to have one roll off the assembly line put together one way, and the next one to roll off could have been quite a bit different....


But, what I know:

I am 100% positive that my '72 SIII had domed rivets; I cut them off myself.

I am 100% positive that I have personally cut domed rivets off of late-70's Series trucks that were imported from the UK during the first half off this decade.

Now, to be sure: there are some rivets that were pop-rivets, as you can't get behind the tub in certain places w/ a buck for the domed rivets... some of the ones on the back of the tub come to mind...

And, I can't speak for 'every' Series, nor your own Series, but, for every single Series I've personally dealt with, if the rivets down the side of the rear tub are pops, they've been replaced. Just my own experiences thus far....



Best,

[sven]

I do recall that there were solid rivets on the bonnet.

Yup thats right. Also around the door handle area. And I remember some on the rear quarter panels but none on any of the cappings.

[sven]

if the rivets down the side of the rear tub are pops, they've been replaced. Just my own experiences thus far....

The ones below the side capping? Yeah those are dome on mine as well.

[I Leak Oil]

This is a riveting conversation!....Alright, I'll go back to enjoying my Corona...
Jason T.

[Leslie]

The ones below the side capping? Yeah those are dome on mine as well.



ROTFLOL! :p Those are your primary cappings rivets. They're the ones that are holding the long side cappings to your tub.

;)

[Jim-ME]

Now for the $64,000 question. Are your rivets holding the side cappings on painted or plain? :)
Jim

[Leslie]

Ah-HA! BTDT!

Kinda interesting discussion we've had back at the shop, once upon a time....

Tub was dipped, right? But, the cappings aren't, right? So, the cappings have to go on after the tub is painted, right? (Remove the cappings, the paint's underneath there, so, the capping *did* go on *after* the paint.)

But, from the factory, the rivets are painted.... right? (They were on mine, and most other unmolested ones I've seen....)

So...... ???

Our guess was, someone on the line came back through and hit the rivets w/ a paint applicator.... don't *know* that, but, really did ponder on it. We actually did the same.... painted the rivets so that they didn't stand out as having been replaced.

If they're not painted, they've probably been replaced. (Or, the paint's been knocked off of them, worn off, etc.).

[Leslie]

This is a riveting conversation!....Alright, I'll go back to enjoying my Corona...




:p


lol....

[TJR]

daveb and sven,

If anything could, a Series has the ability to have one roll off the assembly line put together one way, and the next one to roll off could have been quite a bit different....


But, what I know:

I am 100% positive that my '72 SIII had domed rivets; I cut them off myself.

I am 100% positive that I have personally cut domed rivets off of late-70's Series trucks that were imported from the UK during the first half off this decade.

Now, to be sure: there are some rivets that were pop-rivets, as you can't get behind the tub in certain places w/ a buck for the domed rivets... some of the ones on the back of the tub come to mind...

And, I can't speak for 'every' Series, nor your own Series, but, for every single Series I've personally dealt with, if the rivets down the side of the rear tub are pops, they've been replaced. Just my own experiences thus far....



Best,

Here are some pics of my tub. Like Sven and Daveb,, I do not feel there was ever body work or re-paint on the truck. Infact both L&R sides are the same. This truck vin tag says 2-73 and my father purchased it second hand in 1983 or so, and has been with the family ever since. It was near perfect when we frst got it and I feel I was the first person to ever take the top off.. Anyhow.. I also found an old LRO article about NAS ser III and guess what's in the picture... Perhaps this was a switch for the last run of NAS models? Notice too that the inside of the riviet end is closed. The head(s) match the other rivets throughout the tub as well...Talbot


928

929

930

931

932

[Jim-ME]

Well a bunch of us have just been proven wrong for those are definitely not hammer rivets. It will be easier or you to replace rivets as needed. I'm not looking forward to hammer rivets.
Jim

[thixon]

After reading this thread, I've decided to stay away from rivets altogether. I'm going with zip ties and duct tape to put my truck back together.

[sven]

The ones below the side capping? Yeah those are dome on mine as well.

I was wrong, I checked last night. Mine are arent dome in that area, they are pop rivets. In fact, my rivet setup looks exactly like the pictures TJR posted above.

[jp-]

Well a bunch of us have just been proven wrong for those are definitely not hammer rivets. It will be easier or you to replace rivets as needed. I'm not looking forward to hammer rivets.
Jim

Hammer rivets are great! There's really not that much to them. Plus I get to use my favorite tool, the hammer!

[jp-]

Ah-HA! BTDT!

Kinda interesting discussion we've had back at the shop, once upon a time....

Tub was dipped, right? But, the cappings aren't, right? So, the cappings have to go on after the tub is painted, right? (Remove the cappings, the paint's underneath there, so, the capping *did* go on *after* the paint.)

But, from the factory, the rivets are painted.... right? (They were on mine, and most other unmolested ones I've seen....)

So...... ???

Our guess was, someone on the line came back through and hit the rivets w/ a paint applicator.... don't *know* that, but, really did ponder on it. We actually did the same.... painted the rivets so that they didn't stand out as having been replaced.

If they're not painted, they've probably been replaced. (Or, the paint's been knocked off of them, worn off, etc.).

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has scratched their head on this one. My 109 and 88 were the same way. Painted underneath, which means they were painted first, then painted after the rivet was put on.

[Dav1550]

After reading this thread, I've decided to stay away from rivets altogether. I'm going with zip ties and duct tape to put my truck back together.

#10 stove bolts can make a favorable pro-active stop-gap fixing to perhaps tide-ya (about:blank#)-through those indecisive times of solid verse blind indecision.....

I've come to the firm conclusion that there's in least one dos XX (about:blank#) left in frig that I'm fixing to par-take-in.

Oh and one more thing to ponder....... Might want to stay clear of OEM sealing blind rivets. The steel mandrels have the chance of rusting out in time...:eek: ...

[Eric W S]

I really don't think there is a right answer to the painted and or unpainted rivet question. British Northwest and Cooper Technica paint them. ECR leaves them unpainted. All say they are right.

EwS

[SafeAirOne]

Oh and one more thing to ponder....... Might want to stay clear of OEM sealing blind rivets. The steel mandrels have the chance of rusting out in time...:eek: ...

Sealing blind rivets used in aviation are available in a variety of sizes at: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/rivets.html

Just a guess, but I think it'll take longer than you imagine for the mandrel to completely rust out.