Hybrid/Highway ready

[TCapelle]

Any debate or thought on how to tackle getting a series 3 109 converted to either a RRC LWB chasis or running gear so it is a little more highway friendly?

Is it better to approach with using a galv chasis and adding the updated axles, disc brkaes, V6 or V8 engine , coil sprung, power steering, etc. component by component? I would imagine that is the right way but sounds expensive and labor intensive..

Has anyone seen or done a body swap from a 109 to an existing LWB RRC chasis and dash/bulkhead

I would imagine difficulty with anything properly matching up , it not being the same dimensions, etc so perhaps some custom creations needed? Is it even doable?

I have my Sunday driver/off road/back road series 111 109 just thinking how could I get a series vehicle that I could more safely and comfortably take out on the highway for long camping trips, etc...

Any thoughts?

[greenmeanie]

While anything is possible given enough time and money I would say two things:
1. I would ask myself if the series truck is really what I need to do what I want. I know it is not always a rational decision but you may be better just moving to a RR/Disco and saving a lot of time and hassle that would be involved in making a hybrid.

2. Converting your series body to fit a RR chassis is going to be a lot of time and money. Most of these conversions on the LWB end up looking odd although there are some very nicely executed examples out there. A series can be made to ride and handle nicely on leaf springs so why go to all the hassle of fitting coils?

If you want the look but also want the coil suspension etc. then it sounds like you should hunt down one of the many 110's being imported.

I have a NADA 6cyl that has a chevy 292 conversion on a Scotty's adapter. I'm going to convert to an NP435 mated to high ration transfer case and will probably end up with 4.11 diffs. That little lot isn't cheap but it is a lot easier than doing a full chassis conversion. The conversion fits in the existing truck with minimal chassis mods, will easily make freeway speeds and retains most of the character of the original. Other updates will be TBI, front disc brakes to go with a dual circuit brake system upgrade, power steering and aircon. She'll almost be civilised.

The thing is that that little lot will give me a very useable daily driver truck without altering the body or chassis.

Just food for thought.

Cheers
Gregor

[thixon]

I'm with Gregor on this one. I think you're better off just looking for a good 110. Even if you're capable enough to complete a swap like this yourself, it will take some time (and a $h/teload of cash).

On the other hand, old RR's can be had cheap. Why not just find a good older RR, and fix 'er up? Does it have to be series-esque? If so, believe me, I understand.

My 2 cents,

[Tim Smith]

I'm in agreement with the above but I've also thought about swapping over to coils too.

Off the top of my head I think it would be too expensive, probably less robust for trail use (I've seen more coil linkage failures than leafer failures) and possibly also cost more to maintain. Thats with either doing a frame swap or just an axle and suspension swap. Thats the bad part.

The payoff would be the ride quality, disk brakes and a wider stance. I'm sure I've missed some points but compare that to what you already have.

How bad is it right now? When you are loaded up for camping trips, is it still terrible? Some good food for thought about the leaf set up on TeriAnn Wakeman's website here:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/#springs

Lastly, the only frame swaps I've seen (and known about) by using a Rangie or Disco frame seem to look buck toothed. Maybe something about the motor sitting too far forward on the frame compared to the bodywork of the standard series truck? :confused: You see them more in the UK sites/eBay than in the states.

Cheers,
Tim

[leafsprung]

There is nothing thats says you cant simply add coil springs to the series frame. Its generally cleaner than making the LWB RR chassis fit the series because of the frame hight and outrigger placement. You can have a highway friendly truck without coils.

[TeriAnn]

It seems to me that I have seen more people making trail side coil spring suspension repairs than I have seen making trail side leaf spring repairs. But I have not been keeping score.

Anyway, doesn't someone make a 109 coil spring frame so you could just reframe a 109 & add coiler underhangings? That would save a lot of critical engineering and custom fabrication.

If the frame is available it seems to me like the easy thing to do would be to buy a cheap RR classic for the drive train, a frame and switch body parts over. Anyway you do it, there would be a lot of custom fabrication, money, time, money, work, money, engineering and money involved.

Its cheaper to buy a half dozen early RR classics then run each one until it wears out than to make the conversion. The resale value of most conversions is less than that of a completely stock Series in the same condition. If you're planning on keeping the rig until you die resale value has no meaning. But if you like to drive something different every few years, you might want to give a lot of thought to all the money you will spend and never get back.

Also remember that as of this year it is legal to import the earliest of the One Tens. You might be better off looking for one of those IF you live in a state where you can legally register it (easier done with a diesel engine). Starting 2015 Americans can import one Tens and Ninetys with a 200tdi.

Hybrids are not cheap to do right, there are always teething problems to identify & fix. Sometimes things don't work as well or as reliably as stock, sometimes there is a vast improvement over stock. A LOT DEPENDS UPON THE QUALITY OF THE CONVERSION ENGINEERING AND FABRICATION.

My 109 has leaf springs with sheets of high density low friction plastic between the leaves, power steering, front disk brakes, 24 spline front axles with Trutrac diff up front, a rear Salisbury with ARB & stronger than stock 24 spline axles in the rear, custom prop shafts from Great Basin Rovers with high angle U joints and longer than stock slip joints, a fuel injected Ford 302 engine, T-18 gearbox and Series transfercase with Ashcroft high ratio kit. It all works pretty well together but there was a lot of engineering, a few mistakes and a lot of custom fabrication done by Timm Cooper to make it happen. And did I mention a lot of money, a lot of teething problems, and a whole lot of work? The only part of the conversion I regret is not using a NP435 close ratio gearbox.

I didn't worry about the $$ because I never plan to sell the vehicle (unless someone made an offer I could not refuse, which would be somewhere North of $50K).

If I were to do it all over again, and had LOTS of $$$ I would start with a 101 rolling chassis, stretch it to around 120 or 130 inches, replace the 3.5 V8 with a turbocharged 6BT Cummins in line six, add a widened Series IIB cab and build a custom pop up camper body behind it.

[yorker]

Any debate or thought on how to tackle getting a series 3 109 converted to either a RRC LWB chasis or running gear so it is a little more highway friendly?



Any thoughts?

have you watched this yet?:confused:
http://www.markevans.co.uk/acatalog/A_4x4_is_Born.html

[Jim-ME]

Try calling East Coast Rover and see where they get their coil sprung frames from. I know they have done coil sprung conversions and I agree with TerriAnn that replacing the frame with a complete coiler frame is the best way to go.
Jim

[yorker]

Try calling East Coast Rover and see where they get their coil sprung frames from.


http://www.designa-chassis.co.uk/

[greenmeanie]

Oh yeah, Check ebay right now if you want to see a 109 SW grafted onto a 110 frame. THe workmanship seems fine but the difference in wheelbase looks odd.

Cheers
Gregor

[Tim Smith]

Oh yeah, Check ebay right now if you want to see a 109 SW grafted onto a 110 frame. THe workmanship seems fine but the difference in wheelbase looks odd.

Cheers
Gregor
Ah yes, found it. Being sold under the defender category...

It's probably a fine truck but it's no defender. Heck, other than the funny looks, it might even be better. But it's still no defender.

[Tim Smith]

Computer problem... please ignore this post.

[TCapelle]

Thanks for all the good insight

I realize it would be quite a project and one I would have some professional help with (realize the cost goes up when you don't do it yourslef) the engineering and "heavy lifting"

I found a 110 defender chasis online that has the 3.9 l engine and gearbox assembled. I assume the same concerns about the LWB chasis conversion apply to a defender 110 conversion.

It probably makes more sense to "rebuild" the exisitng 109 frame and parts but the 109 frame is showing rust and needs replacement anyway.

I already own a 1972 series 111, 90 county and 98 disco.

I want to "save" this little old rotting series 11a carawagon 109(it is like charlie brown sitting out in the field when his xmas tree droops over) and make it into a reliable "updated" technology power steering, power brake, coil sprung vehicle that can take the family on a 4 hour camping trip safely...

The Defender frame/chasis and bulkhead and motor gearbox is around $4000

The carawagon is around $2000

The labor and swap project?????

Am I crazy here or what?

Thanks,
Tim
Series 111 109, 90 rrc, 98 disco, 40's farmall super "a" (close cousin of the series rover)