Making a steering correction

[Rosie]

I have 5" of play in my steering wheel.
Want to tighten it up.
I have the manual, have followed Moose's perfect directions for making the correction, but still finding lots of play. Just put on new tires, but don't think that has anything to do with it.
When I sit in the vehicle which is turned off, the steering wheel turns 5" before the wheel makes any turn at all.
Also, driving down the road, the Rover is all over the place. This is a Series IIa 67 88
If anyone has pics of all the places I should check, that would be great!!!
Thanks!!!!

[Eric W S]

Fault diagnosis from the Workshop Manual:

1. Worn or badly adjusted rocker shaft
2. Worn or badly adjusted linkage
3. Worn or Loose hub bearings
4. Steering box loose on chassis
5. Worn or badly adjusted Swivel balls.

First thing I would do is check all the lug nuts. Seriously, every time some big box store did my tires the lugs were never tightened properly.

Are there any issues with the tires? Have you noticed anything odd? I would check that they were properly balanced. You should see new lead weights on the rims.

Here's what I would do for the above faults:
1. Grab Steering wheel and pull towards you. Any movement could indicate loose bearings in the steering column or play in the rocker shaft (assuming your wheel is properly installed).
2. Clean and Check Tie Rods. If any of them have cracked rubber boots they need to be replaced. If all the rubber is sound, check for upward and downward play. Any play whatsoever, replace. Check that all links are straight and not bent.
3. Jack DS/PS of truck up in a secure location with wheels chocked. Grab wheel. Pull and push on it. You shouldn't have any play in any direction. COULD indicate bad wheel bearings. It will also indicate any play in the linkage or swivels.
4. Grab steering components (relay and box) and check for any movement.
5. Visually inspect your swivel balls for leaks.

Have you had the truck professionally aligned? Is the toe in correct per the factory manual?

EDIT: Also check: Grab a partner. Start car and slowly turn wheel until the person observing the front tires indicate that they are straight forward. If the steering wheel isn't straight along with the wheels, then the steering may not be centered on the rocker shaft where it should be.

EDIT: The swivel pre-load should be set to factory. I want to say around 13-16 ft/lbs but don't have the manual in front of me. Best to have a mechanic check this if you don't have a scale and TRE remover and a new TRE. I would leave the Factory manual with them for reference.

[greenmeanie]

Steering check list:
1. Check wheel nuts are tight. It useually shows up as a rythmic clunk if they are not.
2. Wheel bearings. Jack the front of the tuckup and grab the wheel top and bottom and tug any real movement is worn bearings.
3. Look at the tyres and check for abnormal wear which indicates it has an alignment problem.
The above do not really fit your syptoms but are worth checking anyway.

4. Check the axle clamp bolts are tight both front and rear.
5. Swivel free play or worn king pins. This usuallymanifests itself as a shimmy after hitting a bump.
6. Ball joints in all the tie bars. There are six of them and these are your most likely culprit. Remember to check the bar from the steering box to the steering relay.
7. The steering relay. This is the most often neglected part of the steering. Check for free play in the shaft. WHile you are there add some oil. Also check that the bolts clamping both the realy in place and the pitman arms in place are tight.
8. Steering box. Check the lever arm on the end is tight and the mounting screws to the upright are also tight. 101s at least are notorious for loose mountings.
9. In the cab check the steering column mount and the splines on the steering wheel to column are not very badly worn.

Adjust the lash nut. I set mine using a 10mm spanner or imperial equivalent. I tighten it gently but do not torque on it. THere is a sweet spot where lash is minimal without causing damage.

Finally, it could be wear in the bearings in the column itself or it has been poorly shimmed if it has been rebuilt. Try pulling the steering wheel axially towards you. There should be no free play.

That's about it really. It's not a complex system but has lots of parts that can all add up to vagueness.

Edit/ Damn my clumsy slow fingers. Beaten to the draw again.

Cheers
Gregor

[Rosie]

I will try these things.
Is alignment an issue here at all?
Just got new tires, but have not done an alignment.
How critical is an alignment if I am not going to be driving very much?

[Eric W S]

I will try these things.
Is alignment an issue here at all?
Just got new tires, but have not done an alignment.
How critical is an alignment if I am not going to be driving very much?

It will impact your tire wear and how the truck tracks. You should always get an alignment with new tires. Why spend the money just to have them wear prematurely? And you'll find out if your TRE need replacement.

Safety, not drive time should be your primary concern.

I would methodically trace your faults and correct them. Then and only then will you have any confidence that the steering SYSTEM is up to your standards.

[Rosie]

Eric, what is TRE?
Ok, so the problem appears to be in the steering assembly box, or in the inner column.
I have taken off the steering wheel and when I turn the splines in the column back and forth, it appears that the problem is within the column, and down in or near the box.
Have any suggestions? I have looked at everything else you mention and nothing else seems to have problems.
Thanks!

[zayante]

Tie Rod End / Track Rod End.

If you can turn the steering column some ways before the arm coming out of the steering box moves, it's probably the steering box backlash adjustment. Problem is that the gears in the box wear in the center, so if you tighten it so all the play is gone on-center, it will be too tight at the extremes of steering, and the steering won't want to self-center.

There are so many parts in the steering linkage that there is the potential for a lot of lost motion.

[Rosie]

Chris,
If this is the case, what then?
New steering box?
Thanks!

[Eric W S]

Steering boxes for 2 and 2a's are no longer available.

Sounds like you need a rocker shaft adjustment. Might have some balls out of the races in the shaft or the shaft in the wrong position.

[Leslie]

Rosie,

Just so you know, if you end up talking with an alignment shop....

On a Series Rover, the castor and camber are fixed, all you can adjust is the toe of the front wheels. It should have just a bit of toe-in.


Best o' luck.....

[Rosie]

Steering boxes for 2 and 2a's are no longer available.

Sounds like you need a rocker shaft adjustment. Might have some balls out of the races in the shaft or the shaft in the wrong position.

Eric, is this something I can myself or how could this be done?
Leslie, thanks for the alignment info!!!

[Eric W S]

Eric, is this something I can myself or how could this be done?
Leslie, thanks for the alignment info!!!

The factory repair manual covers the overhaul. I don't know how mechanically inclined you are.

[SafeAirOne]

Rosie, There are many good suggestions about WHAT to troubleshoot, just nothing on HOW to troubleshoot it. As others have mentioned, I'd go straight to the slop in the system. Here's HOW:

...Just to simplify things, check this picture out...

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/pc-206-276-page-30-land-rover-series-ii-iia-iii-steering-column-assembly-steering-box.aspx

1) When a helper rocks the steering wheel back and forth, is there a lot of movement before the arm on the steering box (the arm right in front of the front bumper of the rover in the picture) begins to move?

YES: Your steering box is in need of attention. Adjust then continue below. ("how do you adjust" will be another post if necessary)

NO: Then check this picture out:

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/pc-207-276-page-31-land-rover-series-ii-iia-iii-steering-tie-rods-track-rod-drag-link.aspx

The steering relay unit pictured goes through the vehicle chassis near the front ot the rover. You'll only be able to see the very top and the very bottom sticking through the chassis.

There is a rod connecting the arm on the steering box to the arm on the steering relay (not pictured in either photo). This rod has a flexible "tie rod end" on each end--See item #17 in photo 2. These tie rod ends get worn out over time and develop play in them.

2) Put a hand/leg/foot against one of the front wheels and have the helper rock the steering wheel back and forth until you feel the front wheel move. Observe both tie rod ends on the rod between the steering box and relay. Is there slack/slop in either tie rod end before you feel the front wheel move?


YES: replace the tie rod ends. Continue to step 3

NO: Continue to step 3

3) Look under the truck and do the same for the steering track rod and drag link. Is there slack/slop in any tie rod end?

YES: Replace those tie rod ends as necessary.

No: You're done!

The way you describe it, I'd suspect nothing but "yes" answers.

Other than the steering relay itself, I'm confident that there are really no other components in the steering system that could cause the steering wheel to have so much play in in before the front wheels turn.

Only after I checked/(repaired and test drove) all this would I move on to the more complex items like King Pins and wheel bearings.

Good Luck!

[Rosie]

Mark, just to be clear,
when you say rock the steering wheel back and forth, do you mean as I do to experience the play in the wheel, which is a left to right turning of the steering wheel, or do you mean taking the steering wheel in my hand and actually pulling forward and back with left hand and right hand.
"rocking" is throwing me off...
I think you mean just turning the wheel to the left and to the right, as is done to experience the play in the wheel.
Thanks!

[SafeAirOne]

Mark, just to be clear,
when you say rock the steering wheel back and forth, do you mean as I do to experience the play in the wheel, which is a left to right turning of the steering wheel, or do you mean taking the steering wheel in my hand and actually pulling forward and back with left hand and right hand.
"rocking" is throwing me off...
I think you mean just turning the wheel to the left and to the right, as is done to experience the play in the wheel.
Thanks!

Like you are trying to steer, rotating the wheel clockwise/counterclockwise. End play (pulling the wheel toward your chest is a different matter.

[Rosie]

That's clear now, thanks!

[Rosie]

Mark,
Following your directions....
I moved the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any movement in the arm off the steering box. Yes there is a little movement. Not much, very little, but it is not tight.
Is there supposed to be any movement? A little movement? Or none? Should that arm be tight when moving the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of "play" area? I did not move the steering wheel so that the tires move, only within the play range.
Your instructions say to adjust if there is any movement.
I am guessing you mean to adjust the inner nut on the steering box.
If so, we have done some of that.
The outer nut is not moving at all. My husband sprayed "break free" lub on the outer nut but it will not move. He is afraid he will break it. Should we be moving this outer nut for this adjustment?
We have moved the inner nut. How much can the inner nut move? I guess that is hard to tell, depending on where it was positioned in the first place....not clear how much that nut can and should move.
Is this the adjustment you are talking about, and should I adjust the inner nut more given that there is a wee bit of movement in the arm?
Hope that is clear!
Thanks so much!!!

[zayante]

Re: Step #1, I don't know if this will help, but you might want to check out:

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/SIII_steering_play.htm

It might take some penetrating oil and some tapping on the nut to free the larger lock nut from the inner hex head screw once you back out the nut/screw if they move together. Back the nut off a bit while you adjust the screw.

When you figure out what the proper setting of the inner screw is, you'll want to hold it as stationary as you can while you tighten the nut down.

This adjustment can't completely compensate for wear, and you don't want it completely play-free at the centered position or it will be too tight at full steering lock.

[Rosie]

where will I get an alignment anyway? Not just any alignment shop is going to know how to align a Rover, right?

[Rosie]

another thing....the tie rod ends are the same thing as what the british call steering ball joints, right?

[Moose]

where will I get an alignment anyway? Not just any alignment shop is going to know how to align a Rover, right?

Any tire shop that does alignments should be able align a Land Rover. I've never had a problem finding one. Now, they most likely won't have any specs for a Series truck, but like some one mentioned earlier, the only adjustment is the toe in, which I believe is 1/16 - 1/8 inch.

Brett

[SafeAirOne]

I moved the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any movement in the arm off the steering box. Yes there is a little movement. Not much, very little, but it is not tight.
Is there supposed to be any movement? A little movement? Or none?

Ideally, the arm on the steering box should begin to move shortly after you begin turning the steering wheeel. 5" of steering wheel movement and the arm just starts to move is excessive and indicates that the steering box could use some adjustment (hopefully) or overhaul/replacement. It's unlikely that the arm will ever begin moving the moment the steering wheel begins moving, but the closer the better.



Should that arm be tight when moving the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of "play" area? I did not move the steering wheel so that the tires move, only within the play range.

I'm not sure what you mean by "tight", but the arm should be moving very shortly after you begin turning the steering wheel. Moving the steering wheel until a front wheel moves just kind of gives you a gauge of how much slop you have over the entire system. The worn parts generally make themselves obvious within the 5" of play.



Your instructions say to adjust if there is any movement.
I am guessing you mean to adjust the inner nut on the steering box.
If so, we have done some of that.
The outer nut is not moving at all. My husband sprayed "break free" lub on the outer nut but it will not move. He is afraid he will break it. Should we be moving this outer nut for this adjustment?

That outer nut is a jam nut. It meerely keeps the inner threaded part from turning after it is adjusted.


We have moved the inner nut. How much can the inner nut move? I guess that is hard to tell, depending on where it was positioned in the first place....not clear how much that nut can and should move.
Is this the adjustment you are talking about, and should I adjust the inner nut more given that there is a wee bit of movement in the arm?
Hope that is clear!

EDIT: There are 4 steps to adjusting the steering box (on the Ser III, anyhow--I don't imagine the IIA procedure is different. If it is, I'm sure someone will say):

1) Set road wheels to the straight ahead position
2) Slacken the adjuster lock nut
3) Tighten the adjuster to reduce steering wheel backlash
4) Tighten the locknut

Have a look at the following website. It has many Rover manuals available for download in .PDF format. Though they dont have Series IIA books, if you download the Series III manual Part 5, have a look at page 57-1 and beyond, it'll tell you all about the steering system, including adjusting the steering box. It should be pretty similar to yours.

See: http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/cars.htm



another thing....the tie rod ends are the same thing as what the british call steering ball joints, right?

Yes--The above manual calls them ball joints.

[Rosie]

Mark, thanks so much!!
The download you refered me to forwards me to an error page on the Series III manual. Too bad.
Let me just get one thing even more clear about the arm off the steering box...thanks for your patience!
The arm is moving back and forth, I would say...1/2 inch or so, maybe less, as I move the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of play.
Should this arm be moving at all when turning the steering wheel within the 5" of play area, or should the arm begin to move only when the steering wheel actually starts to turn the wheel, after I am out of the play area?

And about tie rod ends, should they have any movement at all in them, when you rock them back and forth, or up and down? They were installed new on this vehicle, and I guess they never have to greased, is that correct?
Also the seller tells me that I should have the toe-in done before I mess with the steering box. Would you agree?
I appreciate your help tremendously!!!

[Rosie]

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/SIII_steering_play.htm


Chris, thanks for the link!!

[SafeAirOne]

Mark, thanks so much!!
The download you refered me to forwards me to an error page on the Series III manual. Too bad.

By Jove, you're right! Sorry--I downloaded all the manuals a long time ago--It appears as if the site has bad links now. I've been sending folks to this site for the manuals for a while, too...



Let me just get one thing even more clear about the arm off the steering box...thanks for your patience!
The arm is moving back and forth, I would say...1/2 inch or so, maybe less, as I move the steering wheel back and forth within the 5" of play.
Should this arm be moving at all when turning the steering wheel within the 5" of play area...


Yes , the arm should move within the "play area" The sooner it moves when you begin turning the steering wheel in the "play area", the better. By the way, make sure the steering box is bolted down solidly, as someone previously mentioned.



... or should the arm begin to move only when the steering wheel actually starts to turn the wheel, after I am out of the play area?

No. In the play area.


And about tie rod ends, should they have any movement at all in them, when you rock them back and forth, or up and down?

There should be no movement in them. The ball joints are just that--a ball surrounded tightly by a socket. The ball part is the bit attached to the steering arm and the socket is the bit attached to the end of the steering rod/drag link---whatever you want to call it. The only acceptable movement is if you grab the steering rod and twist it like a motorcycle throttle, the ends should swivel a little bit on the ball. There should be no other type of movement.


They were installed new on this vehicle, and I guess they never have to greased, is that correct?

It depends on who makes the ball joints. Some have grease fittings on the flat part of the socket, some don't. I have a mixture of both on my truck.


Also the seller tells me that I should have the toe-in done before I mess with the steering box. Would you agree?

It couldn't hurt, but the 4 steps I quoted earlier were verbatum from the Series III workshop manual that is now a dead link. If you have an alignment done, the book says the toe-in should be set to 3/64 to 3/32 of an inch on the Series III. I'm confident that this should work for a Series IIA as well, but again, I'm sure someone will chime in if this is incorrect for a Series IIA.

[Tim Smith]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, but I've seen happen... Check to make sure the steering box is actually mounted tightly to the frame. It is mounted to the frame via a mounting plate that is pretty easy to see when you look in from the wheel well.

If you have a long arm, you might be able to check this single handedly by rocking the wheel back and fourth while looking at the mounting plate along the frame.

When this happened to me, it was pretty obvious because the floor boards/bulkhead actually twisted up and down depending on which way I was turning.

[Rosie]

I'm still working on my steering prob... now trying to align...here is the prob...
The measurement between the screws front and back:
53-1/8 for the front
53-6/8 for the back.
My husband began to untighten the bolts on the clamp on the ends of the rod that connect the two front tires. One bolthead broke off on the passenger side, and the clamp did not loosen. The clamp on the other side (drivers side) did loosen, but the threaded rod does not move, and he is afraid that torquing it will break the steering ball joint.
Any ideas on how to loosen the rod?

[greenmeanie]

Rosie,
The first thing to do is buy a can of PB Blaster or Kroil. Don't bother with WD40 as it is not a true penetrating oil. Make it a big can. In fact you might want to invest in the company as you are going to use lots of this stuff.

Apply a healthy dose to all fasteners you even think you might have to work on. Give any exposed threads a quick wire brush to get rid of any crud. If that doesn't shift it then apply a heat. Be careful around the ball joints so you don't damamge the seal/boot and don't melt the grease out of it.

If you are working on the track rods it is worth pulling the joints all the way out and looking for corrosion on the inside of the tube. They have been known to corrode to the pointof failure while appearing good from the outside.Of course, if it gets destroyed Jim at Series trewk sells really nice linkage tubes made out of DOM tubing that use jam nuts on the ball joint thread. Much stronger and nicer than OEM.

On reassembly of any fastener make sure you use liberal amounts of anti sieze to make it easier the next time.

Cheers
Gregor

[SafeAirOne]

53-1/8 for the front 53-6/8 for the back.
My husband began to untighten the bolts on the clamp on the ends of the rod that connect the two front tires. One bolthead broke off on the passenger side, and the clamp did not loosen.

Just take a flat screwdriver and pry it open. Replacement bolts available at local hardware store. If it were me, I'd get fine threads and use stainless steel. Use a self-locking nut with a nylon insert (ny-lock). No worries when you go to undo it 10 years from now.


The clamp on the other side (drivers side) did loosen, but the threaded rod does not move, and he is afraid that torquing it will break the steering ball joint.

I have had to squirt mine down with penetrating oil like greenmeanie says, put the ball joint end in a vise, then twist the heck out of the rod with a plumber's pipe (monkey) wrench. It puts a few teeth marks in the rod, but I just file them down to relieve any resulting stress points. The ball joints are only $21 each, depending where you source them, so its not worth being delicate with the ones you have. For $125 you could change them ALL and not worry about any slop in ANY of them! If you go this route, I recommend that you order new ball joint ends first THEN damage your old ones. Remember that on one end of the rod ia a right-hand threaded ball joint, on the other end, a left-hand thread.

[Rosie]

Mark, are you implying that I take the rod off to put it in a vice?

[SafeAirOne]

Mark, are you implying that I take the rod off to put it in a vice?

Not unless it's a last resort. I was just relating what I have had to do in the past in extreme cases.

You should be able to free up the ends with the rods mounted on the vehicle. It'll just takes a bit of work because you're fighting the resistance BOTH ball joint ends at the same time. Also, some of the force you put on the rod will be taken up by the springy twisting tendency in the rod. If the ball joint ends are REALLY rusted, it may be beneficial to use 2 pipe wrenches simultaneously, one on each end of the rod, a bit inboard of the threaded sections. Once they initially break free, you should be able to squirt more oil in the slot on the rod and they'll free right up, usually.

If they're so bad that the balls joints break during this procedure, you should probably have them replaced anyway. This is also the point where the vise comes in.

[Rosie]

The tie rod ends are new. I guess that is why we did not want to crank harshly to get the rod to move. When turning on the rod, the tie rod ends get jambed against the rubber parts. I am guessing that if you use the two pipe wrenches the way you describe, the tie rod ends are going to break and grease will expell from them. Do you think I should just buy two new tie rod ends and then go ahead and yank on the rod, so that if they do break, I have new ones to replace?

[Rosie]

Another question on the steering box!
The outer nut, the small one, shaped like a square (which I find odd) is not moving. I don't want to strip it or break it, and have used all kinds of grease substances to try to loosen it.
Got any suggestions?
Not sure whether to use a torch, as there is so much grease on it, don't want to start a fire. Is my only choice to use heat? How likely is it that it will break under more pressure to try to turn it? If it does break, have I screwed up the steering box?
As they are not available anymore, I really don't want to wreck it, but I sure do want to be able to tighten that inner nut a bit more to correct this steering problem. Right now I cannot tighten that inner nut anymore because I cannot get the outer nut to move.
Thanks!

[SafeAirOne]

Rosie,

If you intend to save the current ball joints, you'll probably have to do all the prep work greenmeanie detailed with getting the crud off the threaded area (including in the area you can see through the slot cut in the ends of the rod) and lubricating heavily with penetrating oil. I have never had much success at this, but you can try to hold the base of the ball joint where the threaded portion meets the socket with a suitable wrench while you turn the rod with a pipe wrench. Heat on the end of the rod (not the joint) helps also.

Alternatively, you could just let the folks at the alignment shop worry about this if you're having someone align it anyway. They do this sort of thing day in and day out and have the tools and techniques to do it.

As for the steering box...The outer jam nut must be backed off enough that you can maintain a gap between the nut and the side of the steering box while you're adjusting it. If the nut is jammed against the side of the box, you will not be able to run the inner portion into the steering box any further.

I'm sure SOMEBODY on this board can tell you whether you can back the adjuster all the way out to remove it and clean it up/free the jam nut then reinstall it without messing up the innards of the steering box. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN OR NOT. Anyone??

[daveb]

not sure but I think the locknut on the steering box adjuster may be a left-hand thread. can't recall now. I once had to use a cheater to free one of mine. Do not tighten the adjuster nut too much or you will wreck the box. Try getting it finger tight first and see how you like it there. Any binding will eventually wreck the box.

for the tie rods, apply lots of heat using MAPP gas or better in the threaded area. then spray some PB blaster into the splits @ the ends of the tie-rods. Smack the threaded portion good with a hammer while holding another hammer or a body anvil on the backside. Use a pipe wrench to rotate the rod.

If it doesn't work on the car you will have to free them up off the car using a vice/anvil etc. No need to break the threaded portion of the tie rod end, even the most stubborn ones will eventually come out using enough brute force and the above method(s).


edit: thanks brett guess it is definitely not LH thread. thinking about it a little that would actually not even be possible...





Another question on the steering box!
The outer nut, the small one, shaped like a square (which I find odd) is not moving. I don't want to strip it or break it, and have used all kinds of grease substances to try to loosen it.
Got any suggestions?
Not sure whether to use a torch, as there is so much grease on it, don't want to start a fire. Is my only choice to use heat? How likely is it that it will break under more pressure to try to turn it? If it does break, have I screwed up the steering box?
As they are not available anymore, I really don't want to wreck it, but I sure do want to be able to tighten that inner nut a bit more to correct this steering problem. Right now I cannot tighten that inner nut anymore because I cannot get the outer nut to move.
Thanks!

[Moose]

I'm sure SOMEBODY on this board can tell you whether you can back the adjuster all the way out to remove it and clean it up/free the jam nut then reinstall it without messing up the innards of the steering box. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN OR NOT. Anyone??

If the Series 2a steering box internals are the same as the Series 3, then yes you can remove the adjuster and lock nut without messing things up. I have the adjuster out of a spare Series 3 box now trying to free it up. The adjuster and nut are incredibly boring. I thought there would be more to it. Should have at least had a pointy end.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2841499064_6696066e4f.jpg

Brett

[Jim-ME]

Rosie,
Specifically from the workshop manual toe-in should be 3/64ths to 3/32nds of an inch.
Jim

[Rosie]

Thanks everyone!
Brett that sure is a clean adjuster and lock nut! Looks like gold plated!!!
I am still too nervous about trying to move a lock nut that will not move. Haven't tried heating it yet, but I have to convince my husband that we are not going to burn up the entire vehicle!! He is very cautious about putting fire on these lubricants.

[SafeAirOne]

Haven't tried heating it yet, but I have to convince my husband that we are not going to burn up the entire vehicle!! He is very cautious about putting fire on these lubricants.

Carburettor cleaner will remove the gunk.

[daveb]

I just put the box end of a combination wrench over the nut. then I put another box wrench into the open end of the combination wrench and carefully levered on that. it came loose right away using that method.

also you might want to open the fill plug of the steering box and see if there is anything in it.


Thanks everyone!
Brett that sure is a clean adjuster and lock nut! Looks like gold plated!!!
I am still too nervous about trying to move a lock nut that will not move. Haven't tried heating it yet, but I have to convince my husband that we are not going to burn up the entire vehicle!! He is very cautious about putting fire on these lubricants.

[greenmeanie]

Rosie,
You can remove the adjuster nut with no ill effects on the box. All it does is press on the side of the pivot arm to remove excess play.

As far as removing that lock nut you need to first get it as clean as possible with a wire bruch and your preferred wonder chemical. After that there it is a matter of spinning it. Most people over torque them making freeing it off a pig. They are fairly large nuts so rounding them takes some effort.

It is a standard RH thread so lefty loosy, righty tighty applies. This may be too basic but most people I know still have to stop and think about that on occasion.

Methods for removal are:
Use a six sided spanner or socket as they are far less prone to rounding corners. Buy a quality tool as they invariably fit better which reduces the chances of rounding. You can soak it in a good penetrating oil or, I think someone here brought this one, heat it up and apply bees wax which gets sucked into the thread as it cools.

The longer the spanner or drive the better as it increases the moment arm giving you more control. I sometimes find that giving end of the spanner a sharp tap with a soft faced hammer shocks the nut loose.

Or, if you have the kit, just hit it with an impact gun.

I've never failed to get a nut loose on a LR - it just takes the right combination of the right tool, technique and getting in touch with your innner cro magnon.

Gregor

[Rosie]

getting in touch with your innner cro magnon.

Gregor
You mean like the zen of LR repair?
I am a long way away from that...
Thanks everyone!
I am printing out all these notes for the weekend Rover abuses on my husband! (He secretly likes my Rover, but wonders if what he calls my "latest money pit" will ever get on the road! Wait 'til I prove him wrong!!) ;)

[Rosie]

Finally I got my steering corrected!!! I found a very cool mechanic in his 70's that worked on these things in the marines! It took him 10 minutes to do what I have been fretting over!!! And he lives 2 miles from me!!! How cool is that!
It was a matter of correcting the adjustment on the steering box. I was trying to do it with the front end on the ground. He told me that the front end has to be elevated to take the pressure off it so that the turn can be made. I guess I missed that part of the instructions!

[Rosie]

Just to let you all know, I finally got my alignment done! After messing around with it myself, thought it better to get it done at the shop set up with the right equipment.
It is good I did because he had to pound on my steering column to get it to line up....not sure what that was all about, but wow, what a difference!!! It was all whacked out of shape!! Better driving now!! Actually feels like the steering wheel is connected to the front wheels!!
Get your alignment done if you are thinking about it, because it makes a huge difference in the steering!

[Moose]

Glad to hear you have your steering woes sorted Rose. Make a world of difference when everything is dialed in properly.

You have it licensed for the road yet?

Brett

[Rosie]

Thank you Brett for all you excellent support!! You are awesomely patient and kind!!!!!
Yes, all registered and on the road!!!
Now I have to get the heater box hooked up, and fix the timing...as I am hearing bells!!
But having lots of fun and most of all, trying to explain why I want to drive this thing! Lots of joking around about my "safari truck"!

[Moose]

Your welcome Rose. Glad to hear your 88 is on the road now. You will have to get used to the looks and the comments, that won't stop. Great way to meet folks though.

Still nice out at the moment, but yes, you will need to get the heater hooked up soon. I will need to get my 88 ready for winter soon too. Of course that is easy... I just need to roll the canvas sides down.

OK, so I have to ask. I have heard a lot of strange sounds coming from my truck over the years, but I can't say I have ever heard "bells". ?????

Brett

[Rosie]

Well Brett, this wonderful mechanic that I met who worked on these trucks in the 50's and 60's said that when your timing is off it sounds like bells ringing.
I knew my timing was off because the previous owner in Wyoming had set it up for that altitude, and he told me I would have to adjust it when I get it here.
When I am driving there is a sound of tinkling bells...not easy to describe....and when I told the mechanic I need to time it, he said..... "why are you hearing bells?" And I said, "YES, exactly!!!"
It was right on....
I will ask him why I am hearing bells and report back.
Also, when I shut the ignition off, it keeps going...and I have to either turn the key again to get it to stop or leave it in gear and pull off the clutch.

[LaneRover]

Also, when I shut the ignition off, it keeps going...and I have to either turn the key again to get it to stop or leave it in gear and pull off the clutch.

That sounds like an ignition switch problem. Not a big deal. If you still have points and not electronic ignition you do not want to leave the ignition circuit on when it is not running.

[StX_Rovers]

Also, when I shut the ignition off, it keeps going...and I have to either turn the key again to get it to stop or leave it in gear and pull off the clutch.
That sounds as if the ignition timing is too advanced. The bells you are hearing, is it when you are accelerating? When it keeps running after switching off, is it very smooth or sort of rough? Both symptoms are consistent with too much ignition timing, meaning the spark fires too soon. The bells you are hearing is the gasoline detonating, which means it is actually exploding (might be a little too strong of a description) from the heat in the combustion chamber, before the spark fires. This is hard on the pistons. One way to test this is if the tank is almost empty, put in a few gallons of premium and see if the symptom goes away. Premium gasoline resists detonating and running on more than regular. If the symptoms go away, retard teh ignition timing slightly. To retard the ignition timing you rotate the distributor counterclockwise.

While it does sound as if you have fixed your steering play problem, do occasionally check the mounting bolts as has been suggested. On my wife's RHD 67 88 the steering box mounting bolts kept loosening up. It turns out that there is one bolt that goes to the top of the footwell that fastens down the whole bracket assembly that the box is bolted too. We installed that bolt and the requisite shims and the loosening problem went away. I also went to all metal locknuts wherever possible which helped. It seems that the nylon insert locknuts the nylon would break down overtime from the oil that tends to be around Rover engine compartments.

Do check that the steering box and relay are filled with oil. If it does leak, the seal in the steering box is a simple o-ring. Getting the box out is a total pain but mostly due to all the unbolting of bits. The best way to fill up the relay is to open up two of the small bolts in the top and use a syringe to fill up. The second bolt acts to let the air out.

By the way, women who drive Series Land Rovers are very cool, just ask my wife. :thumb-up: Michelle even drag races hers in street class here, check out the "pics of your Series thread". I am not sure if we get more people down here wanting to buy our series Land Rovers or our 70 Plymouth Road Runner.

[Rosie]

Thanks StX! Good information!!!
I did just look at your pics!! My husband works for USGS too! He takes a lot of water samples up here in the cold Great Lakes. Looks like you all are in a fun place!