Koenig PTO help

[KSMTAW]

Hello,
I am looking for someone who knows about the Koenig power take off winches. I have one and want to put it on the front of my 1965 IIA 88. I spent the day greaseing it and freeing all the working parts. It came with a few drive-shafts. I don't know where it connects to. The front of the engine, or the transfer case?

I need to know how to hook this thing up. If anyone has one on their truck near southern Maine I would love to come take a look at it and take some notes. Or if anyone has expericence hooking it up and can offer some advice that woudl be great.

Thanks-
Todd
Lebanon, Maine

[Rineheitzgabot]

I have one on my '69. I would have to see pictures of yours to see if it is the same, but here's how mine works: The drive shaft connects directly to the front -end of the crank shaft on the engine. It spins all the time while the engine runs. There are two levers: One controls "pay-in" or "pay-out", and the other engages the drive motor that powers the winch.

The drive shaft slides through the hole in the cross-member in the front, and renders the hand-crank option, useless.

When I get home, I will look, and even snap some pics if you want. I would guess that there is an adapter to mate the crank with the drive shaft.

Let me know if you want some pix posted.

[KSMTAW]

Hello-

Sounds like mine. I would like some pictures of how it mates to the front end of the engine. And the drive shafts. I am trying to figure out if mine originally contected to the rear of the transfer case or the front of the engine. I don't have the adapter to the rear of the transfer -so I am hoping I can mount it to the front of the engine. I know it had the cab controls because there are two holes drilled above and below the right hand side headlight. Unfortunetly I don't have the cab controls anymore.
Thanks for your quick reply.

Todd-
1994 Disoc 3.9L 5sp
1965 IIA 88"

If it is easier you can email the photos to my house.
ksmtaw@surfglobal.net

[leafsprung]

PTO (at the t-case) version:

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/reference/lib/winches/ptokoenig.JPG

Crank driven (at the engine) version:

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/reference/lib/winches/koenigwinch.jpg

[rovers2a]

it depends on the typ you have there are two kinds as mentioned previous. follow this link http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.opt.winches.Koenig100.html it has the fitting instructions of both winches. the front mount koenig is by fare the easiest to install as it just attaches to the the engine crank pully.

[Rineheitzgabot]

Todd,

I sent you some pics. I always have trouble getting pics to show up on this forum. Otherwise, I would have tried to do it here, so others could see.

-Gary

[KSMTAW]

Here are some photos of the koenig that came with my truck. It came with two shafts with u-joints.

I think I need the piece that couples the shaft to the engine pully.

I need to take a better look at the crank pully on my truck when I get home from work.

Thanks-
Todd

[rovers2a]

your missing the drive flange that attaches to the engine. see here http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/koenig.driveflange.html :nono:

[KSMTAW]

I am finally ready to ask a semi intelligent question. I think.

Does the starter dog need to be removed? Or does the drive flange fit over the dog?

If the starter dog is removed from the pulley, how do I attach the drive flange to the pulley?

Am I making sense? Thanks for the help.

Todd

[Rineheitzgabot]

I am finally ready to ask a semi intelligent question. I think.

Does the starter dog need to be removed? Or does the drive flange fit over the dog?

If the starter dog is removed from the pulley, how do I attach the drive flange to the pulley?

Am I making sense? Thanks for the help.

Todd

No. you are not making sense, but I am trying. :D

Do have the flange that is depicted in rovers2a's link above? Is it attached to the crank, or is it loose?

Pic below shows connection. This view is from the front of the engine, behind the winch (I was laying under the winch/radiator, facing the direction of the rear of the vehicle, with the camera pointed upward a bit to capture this view).

From what you have said, it appears that you need the drive flange (depicted in rovers2a's link above) which you may have, and it needs bolted to the crank, then the drive shaft needs attached to it. I am not sure what you mean by starter dog. by starter, if you mean the device that cranks the motor (I have to define this, because new nicknames are created all the time for different things), it should not interfere.

There is a possibility that my setup is different than yours, in which case, I retract any comment about you making sense.:)

[KSMTAW]

Thanks for the photo. When I say "starter dog" I am talking about part number RNC163. It accepts the hand crank. I need to know If I remove it and repalce it with the drive flange to accept the u-joint flange or does the drive flange fit over the starter dog and actually engage or hold the drive flange.

By your picture I see the four bolt heads that attach the u-joint to the drive flange. But do those bolts have nuts on the backside of the pully?

Thanks-

[Rineheitzgabot]

I will check tonite, but I would think that all you would have to do is lay under it for a few seconds and hold the flange up there with a flashlight, and answer all of your questions (i.e., if the flange has a "cupped-out" area that looks like it would fit over the starter dog, then, do-it to-it!)

Let me know how it works out.

[rovers2a]

yes you have to remove the starter dog.

[rovers2a]

i think that you do not have all the parts that you need to install your winch... check the links that i am providing .. part of the kit required to fit the winch is the, drive flange and a special bolt and lock washer. this bolt is replaced when you remove the starter dog. if you dont put a bolt in place then the crank shaft pully will fly off. you bolt this special drive flange to the crank pully, then attach the winch drive shaft to it. http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/images/koenig_1459_1.jpg i know its hard to read but give her a try

[rovers2a]

a picture of drive flange attached to engine pully

[rovers2a]

the pen is pointing to the drive flange

[KSMTAW]

The picture you sent helps. It clearly shows the drive shaft U-joint flange bolted to the drive flange that replaces the starter dog. I was not sure if the bolts extended through the pully- but your picture cleared that up. Thanks.

Now I just need a flange, bolt and washer. I will contact a few local machine shops to see how much it would cost to have a drive flange made. I hope it is not too expensive.

Don't laugh too loud, but does anybody have an extra flange, nut and washer they want to sell or trade? :D

Thanks for all the help. I hope I can get this winch up and going. It will look great on the 1965 IIA 88"

Thanks-
Todd

[jp-]

Todd, I would be interested to hear what they would charge you to make it. If it's over $80, I'll make it for you for less. I have access to a full machine shop. Can't make the center bolt though, without some details on it.

[Rineheitzgabot]

I'll bet it will be more than $80.

For machine shops, it's all in the set-up cost. If you are buying only one, it is almost as much as if you buy five.

Good luck Todd!:thumb-up:

[jp-]

There is one dimension missing on the print, that I need, and that is the width of the two tabs on top of the flange.

[TJR]

Nice winch Todd.. I'm in Southern maine too (Acton), but my Koenig is the T/C model... Now. I kinnda which I had the crank driven model.

I know someone at work who's Dad has a complete setup like yours and they live in Farmignton NH. I can ask if they can help you out..

.. Talbot

[KSMTAW]

Good morning JP-
Thanks for the offer. I might just have to take you up on your offer. I will try to get a dimension on the tabs and a few local estimates from machine shops. I will try to get in tocuh with you if I need your help.

Have a good day.
Todd

[KSMTAW]

Hello Talbot-

I would love to take a look at the set-up in Farmignton. I could at least get the dimensions of the tabs on the drive flange I need. Le tme know if you want me to send you my phone number or something. What ever is easier.

I live in lebanon and work at the shipyard in portsmouth. I could shoot over to farmington any day pretty easy.

Thanks-
Todd

[jp-]

I decided to go ahead and make it, just for the hell of it. Almost done, except for making the tabs, and drilling/tapping the holes. I did notice that the print calls for tapped holes, but in the photo that was posted, there are nuts on the opposite side of the bolts.

Three things, (1.) Can I reduce the .640" dimension to .600"? I think this will add a little more meat to the mounting. (2.) Do you want tapped holes, as in the print, or just plain through holes? (3.) I still need the tab width.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2875/ptospacerxd3.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ptospacerxd3.jpg)

(4140 Steel)

[jp-]

Can anyone get that tab width for me?

[KSMTAW]

Thanks JP.

I did not get back to you sooner because I was in San Diego on business last week.

I am waiting to hear from a person here in Maine with the same set up. I hope to be able to meet them somewhere and take an actual measurement.

But- I am not sure the width of those tabs is that critical. It looks to me that all they do is keep the flange off of the pully. Just enought to allow the nuts to attach on the back side.

Thanks again- I will contiunue to try to get the tab widths.

You will need to send me your address and how much you want for it. I was looking at the winch yesterday and can't wait to get it on the truck.

Thanks !

[jp-]

All done.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9532/ptospacer2yx1.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ptospacer2yx1.jpg)

The tab width was just a shade under .375" as measured from a 2.25 spare engine that I have. I changed the .640" to .625". The part is made from 4140 steel at a Rockwell C of 25. It is unpainted. I'd like $80 for it. I showed it to our lead machinist and he said it was worth much more, but I'll stick with my original price.

[jp-]

But- I am not sure the width of those tabs is that critical. It looks to me that all they do is keep the flange off of the pully. Just enought to allow the nuts to attach on the back side.

Thanks !

Just a correction, but those tabs sit down into a slot on the pulley itself to prevent the flange from slipping, they do not hold the flange away from the pulley per se.

[G.G. Sprock]

Nice machine work J.P. I might just have to make me one of them there suckers.

[jp-]

Nice machine work J.P. I might just have to make me one of them there suckers.

Thanks!

The concentricity between all the diameters is +/-.001". (Turned on a Takisawa lathe.)

I rough milled the tabs in, then precision ground them to spec.

Just a fun project that I did in my spare time.

[Daurie]

Just a fun project that I did in my spare time.

Showoff... LOL :thumb-up: