Robert Davis bell housing info

[msggunny]

Ok, so i have been toying around with this idea for a while and i may have even asked this before somewhere but i cant remember or find it.

According to all the info i have found the enginge that Mr Davis uses for his conversion, the "Iron Duke" has the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 90deg V8/4.3L per this info i have found:
http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/gm151.html

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks!

[lrdukdog]

Go here for this info,
http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.options.RDconversion.html
Jim Wolf
Elvenwood Kennel

[zayante]

Good question. Information is sort of hard to come by. Has anyone out there tried this?

I thought I understood that Mr Davis makes a couple of adapters, one which works with a late GM I4 and one for earlier engines. As far as I know, he doesn't recommend the 4.3 L installation.

The issues I see are strength of the LR tranny with a more powerful engine, flywheel/clutch to V6 adaptation if you use the stock tranny, and finding the right exhaust manifolds/headers. Don't know if there are any steering or frame rail interference issues. Evidently, late Vortech engines will only accept FI.

A good page on the 4.3 is:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0208_chevy_43l_262ci_v6_engine_build/index.html

[yorker]

Last I knew he had swapped over to the transverse/metric/2.8l v6 type bolt pattern adapter that the later 2.5l engines had. The first adapter he used was the type similar to the Scotty's adapter.

FWIW this was one of the last emails I got from Davis ~2006 on this:

Matt:
I plan to stop building complete engine conversions at
the end of this year and sell a complete kit that
someone can build themselves. The kit will be based
on the later GM 4 cylinders (s10 and Fiero, etc).
The are everywhere for $100 at a junkyard - that the
Scotty's adapter won't fit, but my adapter will. Then
I don't have to spend 24 - 40 hours building an engine
that I make anout $10 or less an hour doing. I am now
producing an Isuzu 2.8 or 3.1 turbo diesel conversion
for Range Rover and Disco V8s that will be available
as soon as I can finish the kick down linkage. I am
also converting an 88" to a Perking Prema 2.0 liter
TDI from an MG Miestro and putting the same engine
into our MGB. Both run fine on used cooking oil...
Do you still want to buy an adapter? Batch is due out
soon.

and June 2007

Matt:
We will shortly have the Perkins Prima 2.0 TD (go fine
in a stock 88"), Daihatsu 2.8 TD (better in a 109, but
makes an 88" scream), Isuzu 2.8 TD (for RR and
Discoveries), and may even have one 300 TDI for RR &
Discoveries. All run well on veg oil or waste veg oil
(WVO) and have a Daihatsu currently prototyped with 2
fuel tanks. My WVO kits are way ahead of others and
have a cleanable fuel filter. The engine conversions
are not cheap. I also have 1 adapter left. Am making
a few more GM petrol conversions to deplete my current
supply of engines & parts and after that am going to
offer GM petrol kits only (you supply engine and I
supply the rest of the parts). Am busy as hell with 4
vehicles here for engine conversions.
Gotta run...

[msggunny]

2.8 V6, huh?

that might actually work better, even one of the 4cylinders they are talking about with FI.

Guess i should go to the source.

I know the 4.3 will frag the tranny if i was to romp on it, but im sure i could make it so the skinny pedal didnt go all the way down.

[leafsprung]

4.3L v6 or SBC to a GM tranny with an adaptor to the rover t-case . . . You can adapt the 4.3 to the R380 with those adaptors, but the R380 is kind of a turd as well.

[Leslie]

FWIW, I had the 2.8V6 in an '86 Jeep Cherokee, it wasn't the greatest engine out there.... the sidewall went out on one of the cylinders when I had about 110k on it, the shop that replaced it was surprised I'd gotten that many miles on it, most went out before they got to 90k....

[yorker]

There is a fellow in Canada with a 2.8l V6 in his 88", well actually 2 guys, one is carbed and the other is EFI- they've actually had good luck with them. I'd rather have a 225 Buick V6 but, if you want to talk to Simon about it I can forward you his email address. He cast his own adapters.

[msggunny]

4.3L v6 or SBC to a GM tranny with an adaptor to the rover t-case . . . .

That is more the route i would prefer to go, but i have no idea where to find an adaptor for the tranny to LR Tcase.

That would solve the 2 issues i have right now.

1. need another gear, dont know if i want to spend 1500 on a Roverdrive if i can do a swap for a few hundred more. (it will end up being more expensive in the end i am sure)

2. I love my 2.25, but it will eventually die and i cant see spending what a lot of people are asking for a rebuilt or new one. Mine is already bored 60 over so it wont take any more with out a resleeving.

3. I want the challenge of making a swap work, even if i am not ready for it.

If anyone can tell me where to find a GM to LR tcase adaptor please let me know. Or if someone has techinical info on how to fab one, i do have access to a machine shop and people who know how to do that kind of stuff.

Thanks!

[SafeAirOne]

Has anyone ever dealt with this company out of S. Africa? They seem to manufacture every adapter imaginable. I'm sure they ship to N. America...
see: http://www.giloeng.com/adapterparts.htm

[yorker]

If anyone can tell me where to find a GM to LR tcase adaptor please let me know. Or if someone has techinical info on how to fab one, i do have access to a machine shop and people who know how to do that kind of stuff.

Thanks!

Ike has made a few- Jim Young just used one to mate a NP435 to his series T case:
http://www.seriestrek.com/109/np4351.jpg

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8169&page=4

Timm Cooper also does or at least DID make NP435 adapters, a friend of mine is using one in his lightweight- I posted pics of the adapter here:
http://www.landroverusaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535&page=2

I think in the past there have been other adapters- I know TW had one for a T18 that Cooper made, and I have heard of some made for the SM465 or SM420 though never actually seen one of those. :thumb-up:

[greenmeanie]

From reading the e-mail I see that you are looking for an extra gear. A good read on this is at TW site:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/#gearbox

The important thing is not so much how many gear ratios but the gear ratio range. This is, of course, taking into consideration the torque and power bands of your chosen engine. Well that is the two sentence over simplified version anyway.

I'm putting an Chevy 6 cyl (Ooodles of torque) mated to a Ford NP435 (Heck for stout) mated to a high ratio transfer case (stronger and cheaper than an overdrive) in my 109 SW which should give some good useable gear ratios. I'll be fine tuning the gearing with the diff ratios by starting with the cheapest option of Rover 3.54s and, if needed, moving to 4.10 etc.

For 5 speeds NV4500 has been done but it is condiderably longer than the Rover unit so you end up moving cross members and may have issues with prop shaft angles on an 88.

The Novak adapters site is very useful for information about engine conversions although they do not deal with Rover stuff.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/
If you want to stay all Rover then Ashcrofts in the UK offer kits to mount an LT77.

[msggunny]

Has anyone ever dealt with this company out of S. Africa? They seem to manufacture every adapter imaginable. I'm sure they ship to N. America...
see: http://www.giloeng.com/adapterparts.htm
I will check them out, going to be in South Africa for a week next may. May have to find its way into my luggage!

[leafsprung]

too bad all the ZA adaptors use the rover trans, getting rid of that is half the point of doing a conversion

[Mercedesrover]

too bad all the ZA adaptors use the rover trans, getting rid of that is half the point of doing a conversion

Amen.

I don't know why there aren't more 4.3-V6/NP435/Ike adapter/Rover t-case conversions out there. Cheap, easy, reliable, small and plenty of power.

[Eric W S]

Amen.

I don't know why there aren't more 4.3-V6/NP435/Ike adapter/Rover t-case conversions out there. Cheap, easy, reliable, small and plenty of power.

Misguided common conception that a rover should only be comprised of rover parts?

Turd Polishing as a primary hobby?

[Mercedesrover]

Misguided common conception that a rover should only be comprised of rover parts?

That would do it.
Hell, Rover didn't even stick to Rover parts.

[msggunny]

Amen.

I don't know why there aren't more 4.3-V6/NP435/Ike adapter/Rover t-case conversions out there. Cheap, easy, reliable, small and plenty of power.

Didnt look that hard into it, but your right Ike, id still have the rover 4speed.


Now about those adapters mentioned above, are they still in production or only a speciality item?

[jp-]

Does anyone make an NV4500 adapter to Rover T-case?

[leafsprung]

Marks and cooper have made NV4500 adapters although they have been somewhat problematic. There is word we will see a sporty new adapter which will allow a variety of transmission options including the 4500 in the near future.

[jp-]

Marks and cooper have made NV4500 adapters although they have been somewhat problematic. There is word we will see a sporty new adapter which will allow a variety of transmission options including the 4500 in the near future.

Problematic how?

[leafsprung]

Id rather not get into it here. If you gotta know email me.

[jp-]

Also curious if anyone knows whether the Toyota transfer cases are any good? Like the one that goes on an R150F toy tranny.

[leafsprung]

That case is chain driven (not desireable) The gear driven cases from the pickups and 4 runners are ok, there is a great aftermarket for them. They have centered rear outputs though. The cruiser split case is decent. The early cruiser cases are junk.

[gambrinus]

Going with the Davis conversion kit MINUS the adapter to use the rover tranny sounds more and more like the way to fly.

Iron Duke + NP435 + Rover Hi-Ratio box

RW

[Alaska Mike]

I looked long and hard at the Iron Duke for my Rover pile. I had an Iron Duke in my '80 CJ-5, and while I swapped it out because of persistent performance issues, it had enough power to maintain highway speeds (70MPH) on the flat Idaho highways with the stock 4.10 gears and 32" tires. Iron Dukes are very common up here in AMC AWD cars and early '80s CJs. An outdated engine, but certainly not as much as the 2.25L.

My stock engine, transmission, and transfercase were all either toast or questionable, so I planned on swapping them all. The Robert Davis conversion was less attractive to me as I was likely only going to be using the engine mounts. The physical mounting of the engine is probably one of the easier parts of an engine conversion. Since I was going with a GM truck transmission (SM465) and strength was not an issue, I decided to go with a slightly more modern, more powerful engine (AMC 2.5L) with MPFI. It's a more involved swap, but it provides more usable power and very likely a longer service life (parts availability).

If you're going to swap the transmission, the options are nearly wide-open if you can find a transfercase adapter. The stock transmission is the real fuse, and the main reason the Robert Davis conversion is attractive. It's a low power engine that performs better than the 2.25L, but not too much better.

I'm not much of a diesel guy, but Mercedesrover's conversions really are an attractive package. Simple external components (fuel pumps, wiring...), solid reliability, decent availability... There's a lot to be said for it. The chug-chug of a small diesel also seems to fit a Rover. It's not as drop-in as a Robert Davis conversion, but it is easier than what I'm doing.

The GM 4.3L V6 would be a great powerplant, and the knowledge base and parts are out there. You could choose anything from a carbed engine all the way up to an OBDII MPFI engine, which allows you to choose just how involved your harness and fuel system plans are. Motor mounts are available from several sources, and factory adapters to many desirable transmissions are out there.

Any swap is going to be an involved process. Very little is going to be bolt-in or simple. A swap will very likely make the vehicle less attractive to a "purist", but perhaps more valuable to someone who likes the concept of a Series Rover, but not the realities of maintenance and performance.

Think long and hard. Develop a budget for the project. Triple that number. Plan on spending a lot of time screaming obscenities and bleeding from the knuckles. Look long and hard at the durability of your axles and the capability of your brakes. Maybe add a few thousand on your revised estimate to cover upgrades. Still worth it? Then dive right in. Just don't expect to be driving the vehicle for awhile.

[gambrinus]

The plan is to ditch the tranny along with the engine... I don't want to cut the frame or the bulkhead. Need more power, I'd love a diesel, but it seems to be a WAY more involved process. Nothing is perfect..

RW

[yorker]

Borg Warner T98 gearbox to Series transfer (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic22264.php&highlight=t98)

[gambrinus]

T98?

Why?

RW

[Alaska Mike]

It was a solid, granny-geared, widely available transmission in its day. Parts availability has pretty much dried up, though, and the T-18 is a better design with even better availability and serviceability.

However, if you can find the adapter, it's another option.

[JDLalama]

Does anyone make an NV4500 adapter to Rover T-case?

Advanced Adapters (http://www.advanceadapters.com/categories/adapter-kits/191/0/0/0/36/0/0/0/)

The link above will lead you to three adapters for transmisions that end up mated to the Series transfer case. A couple of years ago I spoke to Mathew Jackson (http://www.advanceadapters.com/employees_detail.php?id=8). He was very helpful and patient with my questions. He also drives a Land Rover and has done a conversion. I have not.

[o2batsea]

Wow that's a thread resurrection for shizzle!
7 years between posts?

[TeriAnn]

Does anyone make an NV4500 adapter to Rover T-case?

I know this is an old moldy thread but adapter questions come up frequently.

As noted Advance Adapters has a line of adapters to go between common US light truck gearboxes and the Series transfercase. They consider the Series transfercase to be a strength upgrade for the FJ40 folks.

Here is additional information about the adapters and which gets used for which gearbox

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/advance_Adapter.htm

[JDLalama]

Here is additional information about the adapters and which gets used for which gearbox

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/advance_Adapter.htm

TerriAnn's website is a wealth of organized information. I often find myself reading on her site.