What is the Best Locker out there?

[ArlowCT]

I have been thinking about putting a locker in the rear of my truck but can't make up my mind one which one to go with. The ARB's are nice but just too much money for me. I have a SER III 88" and run 10 spline shafts.

Let me know what you run and how you like it.

Cheers, Ryan

[Mercedesrover]

Toyota E-locker. :)

Seriously, do a little research and ask around. This can snowball on you pretty fast. Your 10-splines aren't really strong enough to run a locker, your stock Rover ring and pinion isn't the best out there either and not worth throwing a bunch of money at.

There's no cheap way out and if the cost of an ARB alone is out of your budget you're probably better off forgetting about it. Things can get expensive pretty fast.

[yorker]

if you have an 88" you probably aren't going to like an automatic locker like a Detroit. With 10 spline axles you can get away with a locker but you'll always have that feeling in the back of your mind- waiting for the axle to pop.

So you really should consider upgrading your axle shafts while upgrading to a locker.

You can get along fine with 10 splines if you keep loads light and don't do anything too crazy- but the locker will increase the potential for breakage.

I'd spend the $ on a good set of tires or tire chains.

[Eric W S]

Listen to Mercedes. It gets real expensive real quick. I installed a detroit in my D-90. Which lead to HD axles and 33"s. Then sliders, sewer caps, HD trailing arms, shocks....

And was I pissed when a stock unlocked Series truck followed my line for a real long time. Good driving and the COG of series truck goes a long way. Which is why the coiler got sold before the financial armeggedon and I bought a series.

Winch is always first IMO. Start with it and work out after your have your recovery gear nailed.

[CliftonRover]

I would also recommend a switch to a 24 spline set up. I did it slightly differently, to same money, I got a pair of disco axles and welded spring perches to them and was ready to go. you have to cut all the old brakets off but you get 24 splines and discs all around.

[ArlowCT]

Thanks for the quick response. I have a winch and all the recovery gear a guy could dream of (I wheel with alot of J@@p guys, they never come prepared and always get stuck). And have been wheeling for over 16 years in the same truck. Very, very rarely do I not make it when I follow a fully locked newer Rover or Jeep. I run small tires but its more about where you put them than anything else.

I was wondering if anyone has experience with the limited slip diff by Detroit(?)? Because more than anything I want a stronger carrier. I have shattered one before and on a different occasion broken all the bolts holding the ring gear on.... With all the things I have broken, I have only had one half shaft brake and that was when I was about 17. I would consider switching to the 24 spline but I like the fact that if I brake a 10 spline someone may have a extra.

Cheers.

[yorker]

Do you mean a True Trac? It is a torsen type torque biasing differential. I was going to mention them but thought you were just interestedin a true locker. They'd be the only type I'd use with 10 spline axles you'd be better off with 24 spline axles just the same of course but if you wanted a traction aiding device a true trac isn't bad, I've been happy with mine. They are no locker but with 10 splines you really don't want all the torque going to one wheel with traction while the opposite wheel is in the air.

[scott]

i've got the detroit tru trak. i like it alot and if you switch the planetaries around you can fit it on the front when you've enough money to fit a full locker w/ 24 splines axles on the rear. that's my plan

[KevinNY]

"Best" and cheapest do not go hand in hand. Best, if not a toyota, is an ARB with a 4.75 R&P. Close enough to the 4.70 that leaving the front alone won't matter.

[I Leak Oil]

Good advise here. Going with a locker and bigger shafts etc. is much less expensive than throwing a locker at 10 spline axles. Lockers and 10 splines will get very expensive....
Jason T.

[Daurie]

I never knew there was a TruTrack that would fit in a series Rover rear diff. Am I reading this correct that it will? Is there any or much modification needed? Part number?? :thumb-up:

[Eric W S]

There is a TruTrac for 10 and 24 spline rovers diffs. I had a TT in the front of the 90.

Call Bill at GBR. He'll be able to help you out.

[daveb]

Do what I did. Buy a cheap RR or Disco that already has them...




I have been thinking about putting a locker in the rear of my truck but can't make up my mind one which one to go with. The ARB's are nice but just too much money for me. I have a SER III 88" and run 10 spline shafts.

Let me know what you run and how you like it.

Cheers, Ryan

[scott]

Do what I did. Buy a cheap RR or Disco that already has them...

they aren't that hard to find, i shop u-pull-it salvage yards looking for rrc & discos that have been roll. people trick out their trucks, think they'll go anywhere, they don't make it and the en up in salvage yards

[greenmeanie]

I like the farmers lockers that series trucks come with.

If you get stuck due to a spinning wheel get out the truck and tighten down the brake adjuster on the spinning wheel to put drag on that side which results in torque transferring to the stationary wheel. Count the clicks on the adjuster going in and adjust the same back out once you are free. It works great for cross axle situations but is obviously less useful for rock crawling etc. It doesn't cost a penny though.

[daveb]

hey that is a pretty cool idea. never thought about that. could get old real fast though going through a real tough section.

actually, a good answer for the original poster, great basin used to offer a 4 pinion carrier with 24 spline axles and a special hub. when you rotate the nut on the end of the hub it forces the driver's side axle into the next side gear causing the diff to lock up. yeah you had to get out to do it but it seemed to work ok.

a friend of mine bought one after breaking a few axles and diffs. I think he spent about a grand and all he had to do was reset the backlash on the carrier since he wasn't changing the ring and pinion.




I like the farmers lockers that series trucks come with.

If you get stuck due to a spinning wheel get out the truck and tighten down the brake adjuster on the spinning wheel to put drag on that side which results in torque transferring to the stationary wheel. Count the clicks on the adjuster going in and adjust the same back out once you are free. It works great for cross axle situations but is obviously less useful for rock crawling etc. It doesn't cost a penny though.

[yorker]

I never knew there was a TruTrack that would fit in a series Rover rear diff. Am I reading this correct that it will? Is there any or much modification needed? Part number?? :thumb-up:

yes it is the same as the True Trac for the 10 spline coilers- you do need a spacer for the ring gear though, different bolts and I think different bearings or races because most of our diffs are imperial spec and the later ones, the ones the True Tracs are desifned for used the post 11980 metric bits.

Places like Drivetrain Warehouse, Randy's Ring and Pinion etc. usually have the True Tracs or can get them pretty cheaply. I'd get the fixing kit- bearings spacer etc from someone else.

http://www.ronsmachiningservice.com/store/product.php?productid=16174

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/tractech/

http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/categories/trutrac/landrover-1.html



in regular to moderate wheeling you should be ok as long as you check your axles once in a while. ARBs are nice but I think for a lot of people a True Trac would suffice. There are times when it seems to me as though the true trac spreads the load better between two axles and reduces shock loading. You can't drive one wheel if the other one os off of the ground with a true trac so you aren't going to put 100% of the torque through one wimpy 10 spline axle.

[/URL]
[URL="http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/PS84Gleason.html"]This sort of explains how they work (http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/PS84Gleason.html)

And here. (http://flashoffroad.com/features/Torsen/Work/torsen_works.htm)

It is a Geleason/torsen but they are related to the TrueTrac.

Front and rear True Tracs have differing torque biasing ratios- if you put a rear Truetrac in the front by reversing it it will still have the torque biasing intended for a rear axle- that could either be a good thing or a bad thing depending how you look at it... ;)

Some people need lockers for what they do but for other people the modest improvement of a True Trac would suffice- you need to make that call for yourself by determining what $ you are willing to pay and what use you really give your LR. :thumb-up:

[Eric W S]

You can't drive one wheel if the other one os off of the ground with a true trac so you aren't going to put 100% of the torque through one wimpy 10 spline axle.


This sort of explains how they work (http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/PS84Gleason.html)

And here. (http://flashoffroad.com/features/Torsen/Work/torsen_works.htm)

It is a Geleason/torsen but they are related to the TrueTrac.


You can drive with one wheel in the air. Did it all the time in my D-90. It's not as effective as a locked wheel but certainly better than an open diff.

The TT's gears will prevent the airbourne wheel from spinning and transfer torque to the wheel with traction once the gears do their thing. The torque will be biased 50% to the will with traction.

Look at the EE example cited. It shows the gears and provides a good explanation of the TT and it's advantages over an open diff.

[yorker]

Yeah I know you can modulate the brakes and dive torque to the wheel with traction that but it can be a real art on an incline with your carbed 2.25 trying to stall and your drum brakes full of mud -even with a hand throttle. ;) EFI or a diesel or an auto trans makes it a bit easier. :D

[Eric W S]

Yeah I know you can modulate the brakes and dive torque to the wheel with traction that but it can be a real art on an incline with your carbed 2.25 trying to stall and your drum brakes full of mud -even with a hand throttle. ;) EFI or a diesel or an auto trans makes it a bit easier. :D

That's the only thing I am really worried about. :( I really like the idea of Dual TT with HD axles for a series though. Nice and simple.

EwS

[yorker]

it is like a ballet at times trying to keep everything running and modulate the brakes. ARBs would be easier for sure.

What I really like is the idea of a 4.7 ratio rear Toyota conversion- as far as I know no one has done that yet- I think they came in Tacomas and t100s? I'm not sure what lockers are available for them though.

[Alaska Mike]

For the price, the Toyota eLocker is the way I would go. The gearing would be a small issue if you couldn't find a stock 4.7 Toyota diff. You're still looking at a considerable investment, but nearly every part would be much stronger than stock.

Other than that, an ARB with 24 spline axles would be a solid combination. The R&P would be a weak point, but it can be managed. I think the price of the conversion would be equal to that of the Toyota, though, with weaker parts.

Otherwise, just run it open and get stuck once in awhile.

For the record, I run ARBs front and rear on my trail rig and leave them off 99% of the time. The potential for breakage is exponentially greater with a locked axle, and in many cases (like slick, off-camber trails) the downside is bigger than the upside. In the mud, a good set of tires alone (like TSL Swampers) gets you farther than a decent set of tires and a locker. In the rocks I choose a line that maintains tire contact as much as possible.

My winch sees far more use than the lockers do, and lockers would usually only get me more stuck.

[Daurie]

Well I took a plunge and ordered a 24 spline Detroit Tru Trac and the Great Basin Rovers 24 spline axles and drive flanges. It cost a bit but I like the idea (for some reason) of retaining the Rover diff and axle housing. I also believe the Tru Trac will be better suited to what I do with my truck. I will start a thread with pictures when all the goodies arrive and begin going in.
Wish me luck! :thumb-up:

[badvibes]

it is like a ballet at times trying to keep everything running and modulate the brakes. ARBs would be easier for sure.

What I really like is the idea of a 4.7 ratio rear Toyota conversion- as far as I know no one has done that yet- I think they came in Tacomas and t100s? I'm not sure what lockers are available for them though.

Here's some info that another member posted that I hung on to. I apologize for not keeping the information as to who posted it. Maybe he'll read this and post up.....

Jeff

Ok, here’s the deal. I don’t really want to get into the differential business but I’ll point you guys that want to do this conversion in the right direction.

Toyota did in fact offer a 4:70 gear ratio from the factory! They were used in late ’93 thru ’94 Toyota T-100 1-ton pickup trucks. They were based on the new-style carrier with the one-piece bridged bearing cap that are still being used today in non-locker Tacoma, Tundra and Sequoia trucks. Because of this bridged bearing cap I think they’re even stronger than the V6/Turbo style carrier. They aren’t available with a factory locker but you can get an ARB or Locktrax locker for it.

There should be some around in the salvage yards. Expect to pay around $300.00 for a used one. They are also still available brand new from Toyota for a list price of $983.00. The part number is 41110-34090. The ring and pinion set is available also, but cost almost as much as the compete carrier.

Like all Toyota diffs these are 1.290” 30-spline side gears and my axles will fit them. Find yourself a used diff in a junkyard, throw in a locker if you want, a pair of axles from me and you’ve got yourself a pretty darn good axle for relatively short money.



Mercedesrover - Thanks for posting up. It sounds like the way to go to me but I've spent way too much money on guns, mags and ammo this year so the ultimate rear axle will have to wait. Whoops I mean money spent on mopeds and self improvement books. That other thing was a typo...

[Mercedesrover]

Here's some info that another member posted that I hung on to. I apologize for not keeping the information as to who posted it. Maybe he'll read this and post up.....

Jeff

That would have been me. I'm still waiting for someone to do this. It's a great way to get a super-strong rear axle set up without the need to change the usually trouble free front axle. A used diff, and ARB and a set of my rear axles and you'll be out of this for under $1500. Pretty cheap money for a rear axle with a locker that you'll never have to touch again no matter how hard you thrash on it. Cheaper than the beefiest Rover diff you could hope to build and three times the strength. Why people keep throwing money at Rover diffs, I'll never understand.....

[jp-]

Why people keep throwing money at Rover diffs, I'll never understand.....

Some people don't feel comfortable with the work involved in lining up the new chunk and doing the maching work.

Then others want to use only Rover parts in their Rovers, so they can say that it is all Rover.

[greenmeanie]

I've got one pure rover, one rover with a few other bits to improve it and I'm now building a LandChevyFordJeepInternationalToyotaandsomeunident ifiedbitsRover. It's quite liberating when you start dealing with parts for what they are and not for the brand.

Having said that I can appreciate a concours restoration like the next man. Each has its place in life.

[Eric W S]

Some people don't feel comfortable with the work involved in lining up the new chunk and doing the maching work.

Then others want to use only Rover parts in their Rovers, so they can say that it is all Rover.

I'd add to the list that some people just won't ever get to the point of needing or wanting the conversion.

For example, I bought the SWB to learn to wrench, not as an off road platform. I don't see that changing too much as I haven't been off road in 2 years and the 88 needs serious attention as far as my standards are concerned...

If I do get into serious wheeling again I am going back to Jeep. Yup. I blasphemed but you just get access to more (parts, conversion kits, after market) at a much lower price point. Plus I have learned to wheel in a Jeep and like them.

[Daurie]

Why people keep throwing money at Rover diffs, I'll never understand.....

Not sure if this was aimed at me but I have contemplated the Toyota conversion since I first got my current S3. I really would love to have the Series Trek Toyota axles under there but the reality of it is when it came to light there was a tru trac and I learned of the great basin axle conversion I immideately knew that was my route. There isn't a conversion, swap, or retro fit listed that I wouldn't take on if it fit my needs and time schedule. If I have the time one day to build a purpose built off road rover It may have your Toyota axles and diff. BTW I checked your site and I didn't know you made 24 splines for trutrac conversions cause I'd have got them from you..

BTW I got my hubs yesterday.. While I'm on here let me go leave you some good feeback on eBay! :D

[yorker]

Hmmm - well if no one has done the 4.7 Toyota rear swap by this spring maybe I will. It would be nice to have the rear end nearly bulletproof. I'll take my rear 10 spline True Trac and put it in the RR or sell it.

On the other hand I have a set of FJ40 axles just sitting there awaiting the right project- maybe I'll use them in toto. I never plan to sell the '65 so keeping it 100% Land Rover holds no particular advantage to me parts availability and reliability however are paramount. I just don't know how the 2.25 will like 4.10 gears.

[mcb]

I have a Detroit Tru Track with Great Basin 24 spline axles on my 88" for 5 years. The Tru Track works quite well in mud and snow without the sometimes dangerous handling that a true locker creates in a short wheel based vehicle. The 24 spline strengthened axles are a must and Great Basin provides excellent customer service. Costs back when I made the purchase was about $900; the conversion has been worthwhile over the years, but if I had it to do over again with today's economy I would settle for a set of chains and upgrade to the high strength axles without the Tru Track.