Series III Stage 1 V8 thoughts?

[highmile]

Hey guys!

Just curious what folk’s thoughts were on the Series III Stage 1 V8?

There is a 1982 Stage III for sale locally that I took a look at on Friday. The truck is in pretty good condition and drove very nicely and fast for a Series. The owner has spent some time repairing any rust issue with the truck. Are parts hard to find for the Rover V8’s? It is RHD which was my first time and seemed very weird, but I guess I would get used to this. I was hoping to find another Series IIA with all the character that goes with it, but the thought of having a Series that could easily keep up and even pass traffic on the interstate intrigues me. I am not partial to the color, but it does look better in person than the photos.

Thanks!

http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/16/07/921d_12.JPG

[Carpe]

What is the asking price?

[highmile]

I was not really intending to buy, but he did say he would take $7200 from a $8000 asking price.

The truck is actually listed on eBay if anbody is truly interested. I am probably a couple months out from actually buying anything new, but did not want to pass up the opportunity to check out a Stage 1 locally.

[greenmeanie]

Stage 1s are fun and unusual in this country.

Don't worry about the Rover V8. If original it would have the low compression 3.5L with Zenith Stromberg ZS175 carbs. Parts are easy enough to come by or you can give her more grunt easily by dropping in a later engine. Even the 4.6L fits.

The gearbox is an LT95 4 speed and is just about the strongest LR ever made. Parts for these are more difficult to come by in the US but certainly not impossible and easily found in the UK. They were also used in the 101, early RR and early 110 V8s. You can play with gear ratios by swapping the high ratio transfer gear or there is (Now out of production) an overdrive that will fit. The LT95 powers both axles using a locking center diff. Learn about it's operation as you can blow it if you abuse it.

The front axle and prop shaft are different from the series. The chrome balls are welded to the axle tube so make sure they are in good nick as replacement involves a new axle tube. The prop uses a double cardon joint to help with driveline angles. It uses stock LR UJ's but is expensive to replace the whole unit.

The rear axle should be Salisbury. Brakes are late SIII drums all round.

Suspension is stock series leaves all round so the same upgrades we are all used to apply.

They are good trucks which address the issues that many people see with the older series trucks. They do have that plastic SIII interior but that is down to personal preference. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

[SafeAirOne]

Are parts hard to find for the Rover V8’s?

I'm no stage 1 owner, but If I'm not mistaken, it's just a regular rover 3.5 with an intake manifold for use with dual SU carbs. Not terribly uncommon, to the best of my knowledge. Find a cheap gas station.


It is RHD which was my first time and seemed very weird, but I guess I would get used to this.


Right-Hand-Drive, the way God intended it to be. Say goodbye to the McDonald's drive-thru window (no big loss).


it does look better in person than the photos.

It looks good in all the photos that I've seen of it, and 7200 is about the price I'd expect to pay for a series III 109 in similar condition. Of course photos and real life can be 2 different things.

[SafeAirOne]

If original it would have the low compression 3.5L with Zenith Stromberg ZS175 carbs.

Are these Zenith or SU carbs? (I have no idea). I guessed SU becuase of the pots on top..

EDIT: Never mind--I just researched it--Stromberg CDSE (whatever this means) carburettors..

http://i11.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/12/e5/9c5c_12.JPG

[highmile]

Thanks for the input and thoughts!

I have not been too keen on the idea of an imported truck due to rust concerns. The owner seems to have started a bit of a side project of importing these trucks and repairing any issues in order to sell them. He has another 83 Series III he is working on now in his garage. It looked like he was doing a pretty good and thorough job from what I could see.

The interior looked great! However, I am definitely partial to the metal dash in the Series IIA's.

[SafeAirOne]

Thanks for the input and thoughts!

I have not been too keen on the idea of an imported truck due to rust concerns.

Believe me, domestic vehicles are not immune from rust. My first NADA Series IIA 88's chassis was proof of this. My current Series III, imported from the UK, has a MUCH more solid chassis. Obviously, rust doesn't care where your chunk of steel originated.

[highmile]

Not sure about the Carbs. the seller did say something about a lot of the V8 guys will change the dual carbs to a single carb in some fashion. Not sure how or why this would be done.

[greenmeanie]

They are Zenith Stromberg ZS175 CDSE which are very similar to the SU. THey are extremely simple to work on. If you want parts go to Joe Curto in New York.

You have the same issue with all multi carb set ups in that they need balanced which is a minor art but once learned they are pretty easy to deal with.

A lot of people swap to the Edelbrock 1404 Performer car and intake as it is a single 4 barrel carb which is closer to the knowledge base here in the US. It also flows more and is considered a performance upgrade. It fits easily but is $$$.

[109 Pretender]

All the guys earlier gave you some vgood advice (especially about front axle). Engine parts are veasy to obtain - rings, valves, pistons, main/rod bearings can be sourced in USA by any engine builder. Excellent support avail. in GB (their hot-rod engine of choice). Special parts like Flow-tech oil pump plate to eliminate oil filter on pump, manifold/carb combos, etc can be had from people in GB like RPI-Engineering, J.E. Engineering and Real Steel. There are 2 good books on the Rover V-8 (same author). Get at least the one on hot-rodding to get an idea of what can be done, what really needs to be done, and of course what shouldn't be done with these engines. Mallory still makes a good distributor either points or electronic.
(I'll post ISBN for book later this evening).
The stage 1 V-8 is a neat precursor to the Defender and somewhat desirable (at least by all of us series owners who don't have one ...:D

Cheers!

[Firemanshort]

Everything everyone said... but say it cooler!

I was a Series III 88" owner that swapped to a Stage One. The ability to drive at highway speeds when going to rallies is truly worth it. Plus, it gets about the same gas mileage that my old 4cyl got. I drove 75mph and trailed a pack of DISCOs going to the MAR. When I checked my numbers, I got 14 mpg combined highway and off road trail 4x4 driving.

I just had a small fuel-tank-fiasco dealing with finding a tank that is unique to the V8 Series but other than that - most parts are standard S3 fare.

[109 Pretender]

Here's the ISBN for the Rover V8 engine books I mentioned earlier. David Hardcastle is the author of both. Haynes (same as shop manuals) is publisher.

Tuning Rover V8 Engines - ISBN 0-85429-933-5
The Rover V8 Engine - ISBN 0-85429-961-0
Tuning book is best for engine builders, other is more of a historical perspective on engine usage

The stage 1 V8 is so rare in USA relatively speaking - I'd take that puppy dog and do a full tilt rebuild, it's worth it. Clean and polish her up afterwards till you could perform surgery... OK, OK, hang on guys, my OCD is kicking in again!

[rwollschlager]

My dad and I have owned our stage 1 for at least 6-7 years. We bought it off of a guy who worked at the local sub-base for 6k . The previous owner imported it in from hawaii?, but it is supposed to be one of the few LHD stage 1's state side. Yup LHD. It used to be fun, but now we dont worry about mile-per-gallon, we count how many miles-a-year it travels under its own power!!! In the past four years alone we've had to replace the engine , and in the last two years we couldnt manage the strombergs so out they went and in went the edlebrock intake manifold and carb. this past week the distributor crapped out and in went a mallory along with a mallory coil that we purchased from a fellow selling his stage 1 on ebay. Now it growls like a tiger and keeps up with highway speeds no problem.

Sure over the years its given us all sorts of trouble we've never gotten from another rover, but we're confident that these problems are just specific to the one sitting in our driveway. In either case i wouldnt trade it for another rover, well no one else would if they put that much $$ into it either.

New Mallory Distributor and coil along with edlebrock intake manifold and carb
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v354/44/26/646291885/n646291885_1397238_3733.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1397236&id=646291885)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1397238&l=b700a&id=646291885

after parabolics
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v78/44/26/646291885/n646291885_106670_6182.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=458780&id=646291885)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=106670&l=be90c&id=646291885

and then thats myself on the tire, at Roverfest in killington VT i think 2001? Thanks rovertym for the pic!
http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v152/44/26/646291885/n646291885_458780_8803.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=349036&id=646291885)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=458780&l=7209c&id=646291885

[AAXD]

I've got a late Disco 3.9 in mine with the 9.35:1 heads that my dad had shaved when he changed the leaky head gaskets. Combined with a Weber 500cfm 4 barrel, edelbrock manifold and flowmaster 40 series it is pretty scary to drive if I am feeling frisky with the skinny pedal. On wet roads in second gear it will actually break all four wheels loose in a spin if I give it full pedal at moderate speed. My mileage is abysmal but then again I drive on all dirt roads and hills where I live so it's no big deal. I'd drive it more if gas didn't cost $2 more per gallon than the rest of the country. My next project is to find a good set of lockers and beefed up axles for her. I've got an 85 Range Rover I hauled out of the woods with a high ratio LT95 and Fairey OD plus a brand new centre diff. I'm not sure if I will re-gear it lower and fit the OD and t-case or just leave it as is, I know the OD is going in because my drive to work has a short (4 mile) stretch where I can open her up to 65. Here is how she sits on RM parabolics and 33" MT's
I'd say get one if you want a unique truck with a lot of hot rodding potential.
http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/38812/2730484320055386387S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2730484320055386387GYbape)

[highmile]

I love that this post has brought out some of the “Stage 1” owners. You guys must have been hiding in the woods. Keep the pictures and ideas coming! I bet there is a whole bunch of you guys just waiting to find each other.

I was never really drawn to the Series III just because it didn’t fit my preconceived notion of what a classic Land Rover Series should look like with the inset headlights and the metal dash, but the Stage 1 could definitely sway me. You guys definitely have my mind thinking….

[xsbowes]

I've got an extra copy of the SIII V-8 supplement

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31P45Q96DYL._SS500_.jpg

Don't forget the early Stage Ones are available for easy import from Canada now (25years+)

[109 Pretender]

You guys have gotta put a stop to this thread ASAP. I mean, they're bringing more in through Canada now??? What if someone reads this and starts buying them all up ? What about mine? I mean, er.. yours? You want one too, don't you?

Fellows - very, very nice rigs here! Stage one's are truly special.

[yorker]

Don't forget the early Stage Ones are available for easy import from Canada now (25years+)

15 years is for Canada- 25 years for the USA. Stage 1's were made from what 1979? 'til 1985. So all but the 84's and '85s, are eligible to import directly to the US now.

It is too bad LR didn't start making them ~10 years earlier, I think they would have sold well in the US market and solved many of the complaints original owners had.

Engine parts are readily available since the engine was used by Rover for so long and by GM prior to that.

http://aluminumv8.com/ D&D Fabrications has a lot of neat stuff for them.

[zayante]

STOP! This thread is making me crazy!! I live in California, and I can never own a Stage I (legally, anyway...) :(

[LaneRover]

STOP! This thread is making me crazy!! I live in California, and I can never own a Stage I (legally, anyway...) :(

You just need a friend in Arizona!

[greenmeanie]

You just need a friend in Arizona!

I can provide a home for any lonely CA Stage 1s. You can have visiting rights at the weekend.

[O'Brien]

so, i haven't ever really thought about it, but no Stage 1's in CA? is it just a smog issue? if people can smog 3.5 V8's in RRC's, why not in a stage 1? anybody have any details?

[LaneRover]

I believe that it has something to do with the RRC came with that engine and that the Stage 1 V-8 would be more difficult to smog since officially - it hasn't been. Also the engine in the RRC has fuel injection and so on to help it get meet the emissions requirements.

Now if you have a Rover made before 74, you can feel free to add a V-8 engine. Of course if it was an engine type made after 1974 your vehicle 'officially' should be smogged under the year the type of engine was made.

ah what fun!

[O'Brien]

so i know they were officially called the 109 V8 which were mainly produced for export from the home market. there's got to be NTSB or EPA data on them, even if they weren't officially imported at the time. the US would certainly have the data because of canada right?

I posted this over on the lrrforum also because most of the members over there are in CA. this is a great discussion and i'm looking forward to replies on both boads. cheers everyone:cheers: and let's keep it going!

[Momo]

Matt-

Here's why, effectively, you are out of luck for Stage Is in CA:

DMV will most likely define your LR as a "direct import"- a vehicle not originally intended for sale in the US:

Direct Import Vehicle—These vehicles were not originally manufactured to meet federal safety requirements or emission standards and not intended by the manufacturer to be used or sold in the United States.

21.025 Determining the Age of a Direct Import
A direct import vehicle is considered “new” if it enters California or is obtained by a California resident before it is two years old and is considered “used” if it is obtained by a California resident or brought into California by a nonresident after it is two years old. The methods by which the age (not the year model) of a direct import vehicle is determined are as follows:

• First—By the year model indicated in the vehicle identification number (VIN).
• Second—If the VIN does not indicate the year model, the date the manufacturer delivered the vehicle as shown on the foreign titling document is used.
• Third—If the first and second methods cannot be used, the year shown on the foreign titling document is used.
• Last—If none of the options shown above can be applied, the calendar year in which the foreign titling document was issued is used.

21.045 Non-USA Title Branding of Direct Import Vehicles
The department is required to mark the registration and title as “Non-USA” whenever it can determine the vehicle is a direct import, regardless of the year model, and a “Non-USA” notation will appear on the certificates issued.

21.055 Direct Import Vehicle Registration Applications

The registration requirements for a direct import vehicle are:

• A completed Application for Title or Registration (REG 343).
• The titling document or a Motor Vehicle Bond.
• A vehicle verification (completed on the back of the REG 343).
• The Customs Entry Summary (if vehicle entered the U.S. prior to July 1, 1988).
• Bill(s) of sale to the importer of record and all subsequent owners.
• The Non-USA Vehicle Certification for vehicles less than two years old, or
The Certificate of Conformance for 1975 or newer year models up to two years old, or the EPA/DOT clearance letters for 1975 or newer year models exempt from the ARB certification.
• A Statement of Facts, New, Nonresident, or Imported Vehicle (REG 256F) is required if qualifying for one of the exemptions and the application does not contain a Non-USA Vehicle Certification (all used direct imports).
• The fees due.

So, if you are a CA resident, they may frown upon you bringing the vehicle in from another state, even if it has out of state registration and smog. Not because it is a direct import but because it is a post-1975 YOM, AND a direct import.

[O'Brien]

momo

that's solid reasoning, and i always love to see how DMV "reasons" through these things. sometimes i also forget that land rover (british leyland at that time) pulled out of the US market in '74. i guess i can be forgiven as it's before my time:D

i'm still waiting to hear what my buddy norcal relics over on the lrrforums has to say too. he's in the import export business and may have some more info (though i'm sure it will be the same as momo)

does anybody know someone with a stage 1 reg'd in CA?

[Moose]

Some interesting Stage One reading here. http://www.lr-mad.co.uk/stage1.html (http://www.lr-mad.co.uk/stage1.html)

I didn't know there were actually a few 88 Stage Ones built.

Brett

[rwollschlager]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-series-defender-land-rover-defender-series-III-109-V-8_W0QQitemZ180306850483QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_ Trucks?hash=item180306850483&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Here is a 1981 Stage 1 registered in California. However in the auction it is titled as a 74 so it is exempt from the smog tests.

[swaschka]

I always wanted a stage v8 truck. Drive too much to park my Silverado right now. Ive had three classic range rovers. that's a good motor. but it is sleeved aluminum. you can buy just the sleeves. you can buy a lot of stuff for those motors a lot of places. You can also edlebrock manifold it and put a 4 barrel on it. I did that to one truck. Beautiful sounding exhaust note with the extra breathing. You can also convert to efi. The rover efi sys is elborate but built like a rover. even has it's own code dispay monitor. I gave away all my efi parts with my last rebuilt motor or i'd offer them up here. My v8's drove me 30k plus miles a year. Broke down once due to a faulty alternator. The fantastic parts supppliers that are available were able to have me a new one at my hotel next day. But you know what, an old gentleman with an old alternator shop tore it down, repaired it by hand that day. That alternator outlasted 2 rebuilts I bought for another truck and my mercedes!

[gobie desert]

stage 1 on ebay... mine. not sure if i want to sell it but yes it is registered in ca and yes it is a sweet truck. titled as a 74, perfect for ca, no smog needed. yes it needs a few things but it is a beast and my dog loves it. i actually get 16 - 17 mpg on the highway with upgrades. very very reliable... any offers send to me... soon before auction ends. partial trade for something else... maybe.
again i am not sure about selling it but if i get the right price i guess.
thanks

[xsbowes]

How long have you had it? It looks like one I almost bought in 2004 from a guy outside of Des Moines Iowa. He stiffed me on my deposit!! :confused:

Nice truck!

[rwollschlager]

Does anyone know of the stage 1 V8 (4 door station wagon, red, with roof rack ) that used to be in the annapolis area in maryland?? It was on ebay a year (maybe) ago. Long story short i purchased an lt95 overdrive from him as he was selling all of his rover bits because he was moving. I recieved the o/d but not the o/d cog gear (yikes!!) which is pretty important. Unfortunatly i lost his contact information and the transaction was too long ago for ebay to remember it in my messages. His name was something along the lines of eric doudrick but i cant find his username or phone # to save my life. If any one can help it would be appreciated. Thanks.

-Robert

[gobie desert]

got this one from a guy in pa. probably about 4-5 years ago. sorry to hear about your deposit, in most cases (not sure what your deal was) but a deposit is usually non refundable due to the fact the seller takes the car off the block so to speak. again don't know what your deal was. i sell collector cars as a small side job, i do sometimes refund partial deposits if the person has a legit reason for backing out. but usually it is clearly noted deposit is non-refundable not to make money off people but to keep people from being looky loos, i want serious buyers who do their homework before handing over any money. and when i buy i make sure i am 100% sure before i pull out the checkbook.

-hawk

[rwollschlager]

no i didnt get completely shafted here. i did recieve the o.d. unit and the linkage and several other goodies for the v8 (mallory distributor and coil). I recieved an email from the seller about how he still had a gear that looked like it was from an o.d. and he recalled he only had one and was wondering if i had mine. After hours of searching and prying i finally found his address and phone number so i should be good.
Thanks

-Robert