Welding Question

[usadventureracing]

I need a welder and I figured I would ask you guys. Does anyone have a recommendation on a 220v welder. It will be used for my restoration and other auto/trailer projects. Thanks:thumb-up:

[SafeAirOne]

I need a welder and I figured I would ask you guys. Does anyone have a recommendation on a 220v welder. It will be used for my restoration and other auto/trailer projects. Thanks:thumb-up:

It depends on whet you want to do with it. I like my Millermatic 135 MIG welder for doing sheet metal (bulkhead, footwell) repair. Works like a champ on thin steel using steel mix gas. It is only 110v so thin stuff is no problem. I wish I had the 220v (Millermatic 175, I think) version for doing heavier work, but then I'd loose the ability to do the delicate stuff.

For the thicker, industrial welding, I use my miller arc (stick) welder.

Both have infinite adjustment for things like amperage (and wire feed speed on the MIG). I would strongly recommend this type of adjustment, whatever you choose. It allows for much better fine tuning. (it uses rheostat-type knobs instead of the ones that you click to a different setting).

[Rineheitzgabot]

I use a Millermatic 135 also. If you know how to lay the bead, you can succesfully mend, up to, 1/4" material. There's not any thicker than that on a Series anywhere (that you would want to weld on, anyway).

I think this machine is a good machine for a restore for the above reasons and the below reasons:

-Plugs into a regular 110V outlet-you can weld in your bathroom if you want to!
-If you buy flux core, wire, you don't have to mess around with gas (bottles and what-not are a pain in the but, in my opinion).
-Inexpensive start-up cost. You can have everything you need to start burnin' wire for about $800.

I don't work for Miller, nor do I care to, I just like the machine.

[greenmeanie]

I am not much of a welder but here goes:
1. Buy a brand name unit. You can't go wrong with Miller or Lincoln Electric and there are probably a few more well known brands out there. Cheap tools usually don't last. Find out what you local welding shop will support with parts and you might save yourself hassle for when you need something on shrt notice.
2. Look at the spec of the machine you buy. I have a LE 175 that will weld thin metal just as well as LE 100 I also have. The difference is that the 175 will do up to 1/2" per the manufacturer if set up as a flux core. It'll do 1/4" nicely as a mig. Manufacturers are often quite optimistic with the thickness of metal they claim their machines can weld although you can help matters with bevelled edges and so on.
3. I can't argue about the vernier Amp adjustment on the Miller being nicer. The five set positions on the LE have not been an issue for me but others more experienced may not like it.
4. Weldgas with MIG can't be beaten unless you are welding outside. Much nicer cleaner welds and your visor doesn't cleaned. If you are planning a restoration the cost of a bottle is not much in the grand scheme of things.
5. Check ebay and craigslist for deals. I picked up a new LE 175 for $300 that had been taken out its box by the previous owner while one still in its packaging is $600 and maybe more depending where you look. I'd draw up a short list of candidates and go with whichever one I can find a deal on.

Oh and buy one of those leather welding jackets if you plan on doing any work under your truck. T-shirts are not fireproof and dodging gobs of molten metal does not help with making pretty welds.

[109 Pretender]

A 220V welder will require less amperage for the hookup - use 220 if you can. As to welder type - if you are just starting - get a MIG welder. Flux core is ok - you can upgrade to gas later. MIG will allow you to achieve good results with little experience. Stick welders are usually harder for beginners. The most important 'advantage' you can give yourself is a hood that auto-darkens. They start around 100.00 and go up to over 300.00. Don't let the price stop you - they're worth every penny!! After a good MIG (Miller/Lincoln/Hobart - all good), get yourself a good oxy-acetylene torch - very useful around shop. If you ever need to cut a lot of sheet metal,and/or 1/4-3/8 plate - save up and get a plasma cutter - you won't cut better or easier than with a plasma cutter. Don't overestimate need for good clothing (wear longsleeves for any type of electric welding - arc will burn you badly w/UV otherwise + good gloves with some dexterity to them. Then spray some sparks!

cheers!

[usadventureracing]

:thumb-up: Thanks for the info, now I need to make some decisions.

[usadventureracing]

Does anyone know anything about this brand?

Clarke® 180EN Mig Welder 220 V 180 Amp (No Gas or Gas)

Thanks

[greenmeanie]

A 220V welder will require less amperage for the hookup - use 220 if you can.
cheers!

That's a good point as I was always tripping the circuit breakers in the house with my 110V welder.

[Leslie]

However...... I'd need to run a 220 line into the garage then..... don't think the wife'd want me welding in the laundry room w/ the dryer unplugged..... :D

[jp-]

That's a good point as I was always tripping the circuit breakers in the house with my 110V welder.

I have a Miller 110V welder as well (I think it's a Millermatic 120). It has been one of the best investments I've ever made. I only weld with gas. You will need a fair amount of practice. MIG's can easily make a pretty weld, but it may or may not be a good weld. Getting the proper penetration is just as important, if not more so, than a good looking weld pattern on the surface. You can weld up to 1/4" material, but it is much better to chamfer the edges on material this thick before starting the weld. My welder came with .023 wire which works well for material under 1/16". However, .030 or .035 is better for everything else.

At full power, my welder can pull a stated 30A. Most 110 outlets are only 15 or 20A at the most. What this means is that I can't run hotter than a setting 7 without tripping my breaker. Luckily, just about everything I weld can be done below this power level. However, a dedicated 30A outlet would be very nice to have.

[SafeAirOne]

At full power, my welder can pull a stated 30A. Most 110 outlets are only 15 or 20A at the most. What this means is that I can't run hotter than a setting 7 without tripping my breaker. Luckily, just about everything I weld can be done below this power level. However, a dedicated 30A outlet would be very nice to have.

I was just about at the max on my Millermatic 135 last week, but I was only welding a 1 inch bead, readjusting the workpiece, welding a 1 inch bead, adjusting (x4) so my breaker never tripped.

On my stick welder, I have an adapter to plug into a 30a 220v dryer outlet (instead of a 50a 220v outlet) and have done so in the past. When you approach the duty cycle of the welder, the breakers begin to trip. It hasn't been a problem for me yet.

Of course just because my house hasn't burned down, doesn't make it right, I suppose.

[I Leak Oil]

I need a welder and I figured I would ask you guys. Does anyone have a recommendation on a 220v welder. It will be used for my restoration and other auto/trailer projects. Thanks:thumb-up:

If you're going with a 220V then go with the Miller 250 family of mig welders. We use these all day long in the shop for production work and have very little issues with them. They do a decent job with the thinner stuff but if you plan on doing alot of that you'd be better off with a Lincoln 130 as I find the Lincoln 110V units to have better control.

You can't go wrong with either Miller or Lincoln or even a Hobart but stay away from the no name brands and the box store re-badged stuff.
Jason T.

[49coe]

When I had my Millermatic 135 I never tripped a breaker using a 20amp circuit. I can, however dim the lights in my neighborhood with my Syncrowave 250! I would recommend staying away from flux core if you can. Gas is so much cleaner. Also if you are welding sheetmetal and pulsing and skipping around it will save you from having to chip and clean off flux between welds. As for the clark, I have no experiance with it, but I would recomend staying with the "real" brands. You will have a quality machine, plus a warantee/parts support if you ever need it, and it will have resale value if you ever decide to part with it. I bought my Millermatic 135 for $650 and I sold it six years later for $600. Other than that, if you are an inexperianced welder, I would highly recomend taking a class if you can find one locally. There is a big difference between making some sparks and getting the pieces to stick, and laying a nice quality bead. Good luck.

[greenmeanie]

I think Clarke is very popular in the UK nd is considered a good brand there. I don't know what parts support is like on this side of the pond though.

[Leslie]

I think I've seen Clarke at Tractor Supply......

Miller, Lincoln, Hobart are the ones that ring a bell (in a positive way), for me, at least, FWIW......

[sven]

Ive seen Clarke at Harbor Freight too.

I have a Lincoln 135 MIG that works great. My only complaint is the gun...the switch broke right out of the box.

[Daurie]

I can, however dim the lights in my neighborhood with my Syncrowave 250! .

I have a Syncrowave 250 too.. thats one bad ass machine.

[Donnie]

I need a welder and I figured I would ask you guys. Does anyone have a recommendation on a 220v welder. It will be used for my restoration and other auto/trailer projects. Thanks:thumb-up:
When you choose a brand, some good ones have been mentioned, look not only at the high end current I.E., 135 amps or 225 amps, but be aware of the low end of the heat setting.....5 amps to 135 amps is more useful than a 35 to 135 amps if U R going to be welding sheet metal. Some inexpensive choices do not offer a really low end setting...Also a bottle of gas, my favorite mix is 85/15, U can choose any mix that you like....is a better choice than flux core wire...if U choose gas, remember Stargon, is probably something U won't want as it burns hotter than CO2 / argon........

[Enigma]

Last Saturday I was watching Two Guys Garage. One guy was fitting and welding in a repair panel to a fender on a hot rod project. He used a plasma cutter to remove the old metal and was welding in the new panel with something I hadn't seen before. It looked sort of a y-shaped handle and seemed to give off an arc and he was using mig wire as filler. Anyone know what this set-up is and details.
Also- what is the price of a plasma cutter and how does it work?

Thanks

[alaskajosh]

...and was welding in the new panel with something I hadn't seen before. It looked sort of a y-shaped handle and seemed to give off an arc and he was using mig wire as filler. Anyone know what this set-up is and details.
Also- what is the price of a plasma cutter and how does it work?

Thanks

Sounds like a TIG set-up he was using.

Seems like plasma cutters start at around $1,000.

[greenmeanie]

As someone mentioned gases I thought I would ask this.

Does anyone know where to get small disposable bottles of argon for welding aluminium with a MIG? I want to do maybe 30 plug welds to practice and then replace a simple peice of corroded body work on my truck.

The weld shops I have been to in Phoenix claim not ot do them and don't do rental bottles. I can't justify the expense of buying a 40cuft for just these few welds.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about see this web page.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm

[yank]

I read some place Hobart is owned by Miller. I have a Hobart 175 now discountinued. The gun says Miller on it. I think for someone that does'nt weld allot the Hobarts are a good option.

[jp-]

As someone mentioned gases I thought I would ask this.

Does anyone know where to get small disposable bottles of argon for welding aluminium with a MIG? I want to do maybe 30 plug welds to practice and then replace a simple peice of corroded body work on my truck.

The weld shops I have been to in Phoenix claim not ot do them and don't do rental bottles. I can't justify the expense of buying a 40cuft for just these few welds.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about see this web page.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm

Do you have a bottle of 75/25? Mig is not the best on aluminum and plug welds are tough in aluminum, you will probably need to enlarge the hole to something like 1/2" rather than the 3/16 spot weld size, just to make sure you have a good weld.

Anyway, for just a few welds you could probably get away with 75/25 on aluminum.

When I bought my welder I told the sales guy that I wouldn't buy unless it came with both an Argon cylinder and a 75/25 cylinder. He said no problem (as they also sold gas). He was happy to throw in the cylinder hoping that I'd be back to buy more welding supplies.

[greenmeanie]

Hmm, I do have 75/25 so I'll give it a go with that. It's only a couple of little corner pieces at the front of the tub wherer the T-posts meet the rear passenger footwell so it is not structural.

Now, I'm thinking that I should convert my little 100A MIG over to my Ally plug welder. Anyone got any advice on settings for this.

It should be a fun experiment.

[SafeAirOne]

Does anyone know where to get small disposable bottles of argon for welding aluminium with a MIG? ...

...The weld shops I have been to in Phoenix claim not ot do them and don't do rental bottles. I can't justify the expense of buying a 40cuft for just these few welds.

I've never seen these before, but then again, I don't hang around the local welding supply houses much. I'd be stunned if the local welding / gas supply place didnt rent/lease small tanks of argon. I have found it difficult to get a personally-owned bottle of gas filled because all the welding places in my village all want to lease me one of thiers.

I hope you find a place to get gas, because I'm curious about how MIG machines do on aluminum without using a spoolgun. I haven't been brave enough (or had a need) to try yet.

[jp-]

Hmm, I do have 75/25 so I'll give it a go with that. It's only a couple of little corner pieces at the front of the tub wherer the T-posts meet the rear passenger footwell so it is not structural.

Now, I'm thinking that I should convert my little 100A MIG over to my Ally plug welder. Anyone got any advice on settings for this.

It should be a fun experiment.

Safe brings up a point about a spoolgun. If you are going to weld aluminum on a MIG with no spoolgun you must get at least .035 wire. Any smaller and it will instantly birdnest. Also, you must keep the wire feed tube as straight as possible. If you have an 8' welding line running to your gun, move the welder 8' away and weld with the line almost straight. On steel, it makes no difference if the feed tube is coiled on the ground as the steel will not birdnest.

Settings will be almost maxed out on the feed speed, and probably a number 4 or 5 on the voltage. Always use a test piece first.

[49coe]

I'm curious about how MIG machines do on aluminum without using a spoolgun. I haven't been brave enough (or had a need) to try yet.[/quote]
Not too well.

[Rineheitzgabot]

I am curious to see how the 75/25 works on aluminum.

I have doubts that it will burn evenly, and not look like swiss cheese. I would recommend straight Argon (100%). You need it more potent to ensure the shielding.

I also agree with the spoolgun thing. You need the drive wheels closer to the plasma, when burning aluminum.

IMHO:)

[alaskajosh]

MIG'ing with AL:

In order for me to weld aluminum with my MIG (W/O a spool gun) I had to buy a $110 kit from Lincoln. It included a new plastic lined liner for the welding hose, special rollers that wouldn't mis-shape the soft AL wire, and special tips for the gun.

I had to run minimum .40 wire.

Then I had to get an argon bottle (75/25 did not perform for me) and I forget what that cost.

Ultimately, the results were spotty for me. Poor, really. And I could really only weld about 3/16" MINIMUM (no thinner).

On a project that mattered I rented a spool gun and was very pleased!! I'd wished that I'd put that $110 towards the gun!!

From what I've seen and heard MIG is really NOT ideal for aluminum except maybe for thicker stuff... like big boat hulls. For good results on thinner stuff- be thinking TIG.

I also think that, whereas with steel an amateur can quickly get the hang of it, aluminum is another matter.
Be prepared for lots of trial and error... hopefully on scrap!! Anything structural should really be left to a professional. Aluminum has a lot of moisture in it (you can see it sweat off as you weld) and ideally one should thoroughly preheat the area prior to welding... it's a PITA and there's lots to not know (coming from a guy who doesn't know lots).

Kind regards, Josh

[109 Pretender]

The best bet for someone not experienced in welding alum. is to farm out the job to someone who does it all the time. Otherwise for the adventurous - absolutely use shielding gas - 100% argon most recommended and easy to get - there are other exotic blends avail too. Never use any shield gas that can oxidize (CO2 mixes are a big no no!). Spool guns block vision too much for 1st timers. I use TIG w/100% argon - excellent start/stop control w/footpedal - really important for alum. However, I never TIG body metal that I will work on - why? electric welding hardens the alum. a lot! All exotic aluminum car bodies have traditionally been gas welded Ferrari, AC Cobra, etc) - much less enbrittelment in weld zone and you can easily anneal and work metal afterwards. (Trick to this is to use Cobalt Blue lenses - ck w/glassblowing suppliers). The fluxes used w/alum. give off a bright orange flare. Cobalt kills the flare so you can see. Adjust for a slight reduction flame (shield), use correct alloy and flux - all extremely important if you want good results - and who doesn't? Practice a lot before welding on Rover. With experience you can use a steel block (support) and weld up holes up to dime size - wrong alloy,flux,and/or technique will have you blowing dime sized holes as the metal melts and falls through... Remember too that aluminum naturally hardens with age - so don't add to the problem any more than necessary.
PS - Looks like a bunch of us have the Miller Syncrowave 250 TIG - great machine!
cheers!

[109 Pretender]

Another thought on welding alum. You have to know what alloy the base metal is - there are a zillion types of alum. out there. Here's a couple common ones:

1100 series - pure alum. not used for cars except maybe some trim stuff
3003 series - most common for auto body manufacturer (especially hand beaten panels (not used on Rovers)
6000 series (6061) this is what we call 'the good stuff' and what most people buy - wrongly I might add. However, it's a good match for the Rover "Birmabrite" aircraft alloy used on our vehicles.

Each of the above are avail in dead soft, naturally aged , and artifical aged. 3003-H14 is a half hard naturally aged body grade alum. that works well and accepts compound curves w/o cracking. 6061-T6 is full hard, chemically aged aircraft alum. that shouldn't be bent around too much because it cracks very easily. But hey, our Rovers have mostly flat panels - the Brits know their metals inside and out and they used the best grades of materials in the proper application - they can lay a mean bead too!

cheers

[SafeAirOne]

the Brits....used the best grades of materials in the proper application

Hmmm.....

[109 Pretender]

He,He... well, Safe caught me on that one... Forgot to mention that LR many times fell short on execution! So, good materials still require thoughtful execution - i.e. like using good alum. body panels, galv. steel cappings but disregarding electrolysis that is unavoidable in a salty/wet environment that Rovers like to play in. Well, beancounters really are the bane of all good design efforts.

On a side note: Do you realize that if MG had spent as much on the MG midget as Porsche has on the 911 family tree - the MG would be able to travel at superluminal speeds and we'd already have populated most of the Milky Way galaxy by now?

[Eric W S]

Another thought on welding alum. You have to know what alloy the base metal is - there are a zillion types of alum. out there. Here's a couple common ones:

1100 series - pure alum. not used for cars except maybe some trim stuff
3003 series - most common for auto body manufacturer (especially hand beaten panels (not used on Rovers)
6000 series (6061) this is what we call 'the good stuff' and what most people buy - wrongly I might add. However, it's a good match for the Rover "Birmabrite" aircraft alloy used on our vehicles.

Each of the above are avail in dead soft, naturally aged , and artifical aged. 3003-H14 is a half hard naturally aged body grade alum. that works well and accepts compound curves w/o cracking. 6061-T6 is full hard, chemically aged aircraft alum. that shouldn't be bent around too much because it cracks very easily. But hey, our Rovers have mostly flat panels - the Brits know their metals inside and out and they used the best grades of materials in the proper application - they can lay a mean bead too!

cheers

You can still get Birmabright alloy from supply houses. Just google it and you will eventually come across the modern AL designation for it.

[greenmeanie]

Ok,
Just bear in mind this is not structural and not seam welding. These are the two little triangular end caps on the ends on the rear kick panel of the station wagon. If you look at where the bottom of the rear dorr brakes upwards at an angle you'll see them. I need to do about 10 plug welds on each.

The information is good but I am unwilling to buy a TIG or a spool gun for 20 odd plugs plus however many practice shots I give it on scrap pieces.

From what I see I really need the Argon, bigger dia wire and tip, plus it sounds like keeping the feed line as straight as possible might allow me to get away with it. If not I suppose I can just rivet them on.

Thanks for all the info.

[Rineheitzgabot]

Ok,
Just bear in mind this is not structural and not seam welding. These are the two little triangular end caps on the ends on the rear kick panel of the station wagon. If you look at where the bottom of the rear dorr brakes upwards at an angle you'll see them. I need to do about 10 plug welds on each.

The information is good but I am unwilling to buy a TIG or a spool gun for 20 odd plugs plus however many practice shots I give it on scrap pieces.

From what I see I really need the Argon, bigger dia wire and tip, plus it sounds like keeping the feed line as straight as possible might allow me to get away with it. If not I suppose I can just rivet them on.

Thanks for all the info.

Sounds good. One other thing, you may want to see if you can get a better liner for your lead. The plastic ones work well. There is the possiblility that you won't need it, though, so you can try it without first, lead as straight as possible, so the wire feeds easily.

Good luck, and I agree with your assessment of the situation from an economic standpoint.

[Paul 84]

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this long string just to get you thinking. Why not use waterproof pop rivets? Very strong, easy to use, looks good.

Rover used a lot of them.

Just a thought?

Paul