Electrice Series?

[thixon]

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tv/mean-green-machines/mgm-red-rock-rumble.html

Did anybody else see the electric series yesterday on planet green? Pretty stupid show, and the comparison was dumb, but the guy appears to have mated an electric motor (I assume an electric airplane starter) directly to the original tranny. They just did'nt show enough of the truck to be able to tell.

[thixon]

update

http://www.evparts.com/article_zoom.php?ARTICLESTAG=roverFaceOffPhotos

Here's a link from the guys website with some photos. Enjoy.

[Leslie]

I caught that a month or so again when the station debuted (well, at least, when it appeared here, we hadn't had that station before).

I'd seen that website years ago, though, thought it was really neat. Always wondered how you'd put a snorkel on it, though.....

[SafeAirOne]

Didn't see the show. Matter of fact, I don't even have cable TV. I'm just putting 1 and 1 together here...Judging by the "Planet Green" name and the electric motor, I'm guessing that there is some inference that the mighty electric land rover is saving polar bears in the arctic?

I looked at the photos and didn't see any 1/2-mile-long wagon train of solar panels being dragged behind the rover nor any windmill farms sticking out of the back of the rover.

I don't want to jump to conclusions here, though. Perhaps it was just a crazy, fun, weird "let's see if we can power a rover by an electric motor" experiment. What Gives??

[yorker]

I saw that Series a while ago- It seems like it was in the 1990's. A few years later the one partner from the firm- Bob- came to Howard Smith's Guy Fawkes ralley. I talked to him about the electric series and he mentioned that it was interesting to drive because of the constant torque the electric motor had. Last I knew Bob had split up with the EV business and was making an expedition 101 with a 300tdi and camper out of a 101 ambulance.

[Tim Smith]

The TV show certainly is about greening things up but me thinks the builder is a little more into having fun. I found out about the Electro Rover and Roderick Wilde a few years ago but have been trying to find out more ever since. The concept is pretty simple really, swap out the 2.25 for an electric. I believe his setup uses the AdvanceDC FB1-4001 which is not an aircraft starter motor. In fact from what I've read, that motor can push the little 88 well past 80 miles an hour and gives it a 0-60 time somewhere in the 11 second range. Also with mounting most of the batteries low and between the frame rails, he's able to get a very impressive lean out of the thing before going axx over tea kettle.

There are drawbacks though. On batteries alone, you'de be limited to probably 30-40 miles per charge on the roads. You also don't want to get the controller wet in a river crossing or you'de be sunk. Although everything else will work under water.

There was an article about the truck in LRO or LRM back in 1990 or so. Although it was light on some of the details, it documents a test run between this truck and another 88 that was set up pretty much exactly as this only was still running the 2.25. If memory serves, it won in all categories until it suffered a breakdown (was still in testing at the time) and dropped it out of the compairison. They were even running a small generator in the back which was able to keep the thing going all day long but I don't know if it could sustain highway speeds with it...

I've been seriously considering this as the next stage evolution of the lightweight but have a few other projects to get out of the way first. Would be great for local runs to town or for commuting to work (maybe) and then would probably make an incredible power plant for the trails. Like it's been said, near 100% torque from a dead stop and would have a rpm range up to about 5 or 6000. And quiet.

Here are some links.
Suck Amps Racing
Series Landy Adaptor
Some of the story about the Electro Rover
The face off challenge

There is a lot more info out there but you'll have to do your own research. I certainly am no expert on any of this.

[thixon]

Tim,

Interesting. I went to the sucks amps site. Looks like it would be a fairly easy conversion, but between the controller and the motor you can spend some bucks quick (not to mention the batteries). For now I'll stick with the dino juice.

[Tim Smith]

Looks like it would be a fairly easy conversion, but between the controller and the motor you can spend some bucks quick (not to mention the batteries).

Yeah, you sure can. I figure you could probably drop 10,000 in a decent conversion. Not really for the faint of heart.

Did a little U-tubing and found the show. Rangie VS e-Series. Enjoy!

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


Part 4:


They are saying 0-60 in 4 seconds! I agree, the show is pretty stupid...

[TeriAnn]

So I've been wondering, what if you convert to electric. You still have all this space in the engine compartment. Why not a small 1 or 2 cylinder diesel engine driving an alternator? Build a Hybrid.

[superstator]

So I've been wondering, what if you convert to electric. You still have all this space in the engine compartment. Why not a small 1 or 2 cylinder diesel engine driving an alternator? Build a Hybrid.

I've actually done a fair amount of research on this, since I had that very idea when I bought my 109. There's some big question marks as to how much power you really need to be able to cruise, and how much extra efficiency you'd get from a series hybrid setup (series as in non-parallel, not Series x). So far I've assumed about 30kw (~40hp) minimum, which with most commercial gensets would be at least 2gph, which means a decent-but-not-amazing 30mpg at highway speed. You might improve on that with regen braking and plug-in charging, but the only way to know for sure how much would be to build it and find out.

Then there's that pesky cost issue; $10k+ for the electric conversion, plus the genset and accoutrement, and a 200tdi on bio-d looks better and better as a "green" rover. Not to say I've given up on the idea; but I need a lot more disposable income and shop space before I can really play with it...

[Tim Smith]

Yup. The genset in the back is a way to go and I kinda played around with that idea too. Part of the problem would be the loss of efficiency in the energy conversion process. So even though you'd be getting locomotion from an electric motor which is a very very efficient means of power, either creating more power or storing the power on board is the draw back.

I've heard it said (so take this with a grain of salt) that the battery pack in your average electric conversion only holds about as much energy as a gallon of petrol. You can figure that the average battery pack is in the neighborhood of 96 to 120 volts. Generally that would be around 10 12 volt batteries or 20 6 volt batteries. Think of that weight in everyday use! Litium batteries are an option but the cost gets a bit silly going that route.

Then for on board power generation you would have to add the complexity and cost of adding a generator to the mix. And we're not talking about a small home back up generator that is 5 - 10 kW either. Well now you're going to be looking at one heck of a lot stuff to figure out.

I was thinking that an old military generator mounted to a trailer would be a nice way of getting long distances. But still, how do you hook that into the mix to make sure you're charging all the batteries at the same rate while drawing power at variable rates.

In the end it's probably going to be very expensive and also probably wouldn't pass much savings back to the owner. Makes you start to realize why diesel electric locomotives are such wonders.

Yeah, I'm thinking bio-diesel is a little bit simpler.

[LaneRover]

Part of the problem would be the loss of efficiency in the energy conversion process. So even though you'd be getting locomotion from an electric motor which is a very very efficient means of power, either creating more power or storing the power on board is the draw back.

In any electric car there is going to be lots of efficiency drains. The fuel to run the generator(whether it is in a trailer or from the power company) the loss in storing to batteries even the loss of efficiency in powering the motor. I think that an electric vehicle only really works as a 'green solution' if you have solar panels or a wind mill making your power. Other than that it is not a good use of natural resources - not to mention the nasty stuff that goes into making the batteries.
Of course if I had solar panels it would be pretty darn cool to make an electric Rover to cruise around town in!

[superstator]

In any electric car there is going to be lots of efficiency drains. The fuel to run the generator(whether it is in a trailer or from the power company) the loss in storing to batteries even the loss of efficiency in powering the motor. I think that an electric vehicle only really works as a 'green solution' if you have solar panels or a wind mill making your power. Other than that it is not a good use of natural resources - not to mention the nasty stuff that goes into making the batteries.
Of course if I had solar panels it would be pretty darn cool to make an electric Rover to cruise around town in!

Most electric motors are about 90% efficient, and batteries are more like 99%. There have been plenty of studies to show that a pure electric is cleaner than an internal combustion powered vehicle, even when the electricity comes from something like a coal plant, simply because large scale electricity generation is so much more efficient than a small engine as to more than make up any losses in transmission and storage.

And of course if your vehicle is pure electric, you've decoupled it from the actual power source. As things like wind, solar, nuclear, etc. get added to the grid, your vehicle gets more efficient without you lifting a finger...

[LaneRover]

Most electric motors are about 90% efficient, and batteries are more like 99%. There have been plenty of studies to show that a pure electric is cleaner than an internal combustion powered vehicle, even when the electricity comes from something like a coal plant, simply because large scale electricity generation is so much more efficient than a small engine as to more than make up any losses in transmission and storage.

And of course if your vehicle is pure electric, you've decoupled it from the actual power source. As things like wind, solar, nuclear, etc. get added to the grid, your vehicle gets more efficient without you lifting a finger...

How expensive are those 99% efficient batteries? What about replacing batteries? What about too many people going for electric cars that place massive demands on the system?

You may have a point and electric vehicles may be the way to go - in the future - but if I can't drive from San Diego to LA or from Portland Maine to Boston because of the limited range then it is not very useful and is a rich persons toy to show they are being 'ecologically conscious' to the masses.

[superstator]

How expensive are those 99% efficient batteries? What about replacing batteries? What about too many people going for electric cars that place massive demands on the system?

Very expensive, and I may have imagined hearing about a battery that efficient anyway. El cheapo lead acids are more like 75-80%. For grid demand, the assumption has always been that people would charge at night when the grid is relatively quiet, but that leads right into the range issue: noone has yet figured out how to truely fast-charge an electric vehicle the same way you can a traditional car, and if they did, those new electric filling stations would put some serious hurt on the existing infrastructure. Which leaves you with no way to top off on the way to Boston.

You may have a point and electric vehicles may be the way to go - in the future - but if I can't drive from San Diego to LA or from Portland Maine to Boston because of the limited range then it is not very useful and is a rich persons toy to show they are being 'ecologically conscious' to the masses.

I totally agree. Doesn't stop it being a fun engineering exercise, though. Personally, I think something like algal biodiesel has a better chance of being a near-term alternative for a lot of people; it's essentially bottled solar energy, can be grown on marginal land with very high density, and works just like any other biodiesel. No magical heavy-metal batteries required.