clutch / brake issues

[dansalisbury72]

My clutch also stopped clutching the other night, so Jared's earlier post and responses came in very handy while I was trying to remedy the situation. I topped the fluid back off, bled the line, and all seems well again. Clutch now clutches, which is good.
However, the brake fluid was also low (in the same cylinder on mine - clutch in the inner cylinder, brake in the outer cylinder), so I decided to bleed the brake lines yesterday, as they had degraded over time to a 'double pump' in order to get decent brake pressure. I am no expert on brakes but the directions in my manual seemed quite clear, so away I went. After bleeding the lines and re-adjusting the brakes, I took it for a spin and it was basically back to the way it was when I started - the first brake pump was nothing and the second brake pump had decent pressure. I left it at that and on the way home from work tonight it was going back and forth, sometimes it required the old double pump, and sometimes I had immediate brake pressure (which is what I had expected after the brake adjustment, as I only backed them 1/8th turn off the drum).
So my question to all you brake experts - what did I do wrong or what do I need to do next? Why is it going back and forth now?

thanks, and sorry for the long post...

Dan in NC

[Linus Tremaine]

brakes

Dan,
did the brakes ever work correctly?

109 rear brakes are often not installed right. If the truck brakes never worked you may want to check this:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/landRoverFAQ/FAQ_rearbrakes.htm

If you are still having trouble it is likely that there is still air trapped in the top of the master cylinder or in the two top wheel cylinders in the front.

Best way to solve air in the system is with a pressure bleeder. If you dont have one, its possible to clamp off the flex lines to determine where the problem lies. If air is in your master cylinder you can sometimes get it out by pointing the truck up a steep hill thus leveling the master cylinder an allowing air out. If air is trapped in the front wheel cylinders you have to clamp the shoes together, compressing the top wheel cylinder. This eliminates any space inside that wheel cylinder for air to be trapped. Again, the only way to be sure where the problem is is by clamping the lines off. If you clam all of them and have poor pressure, its the master. If you clamp the fronts off and have good pedal, its air in the fronts.

Best solution is a pressure bleeder IMHO.

Also, it is very critical where the master cylinder push rod is set. You want to make sure you have 1/16th inch play in the rod before it contacts the piston in the cylinder. Also, make sure the pedal is set to 6.25 inches from bottom of the pedal to the floor board. These settings are paramount to good brakes. With a pedal that has changing symptoms, this is likely a good place to start.

[rovertek]

first your fluid is low due to a leak some where, this should be addressed first,second make sure the adjusters are adjusted up fully,then try bench bleeding the master to remove any air bubbles that might be in there, then bleed the brakes again making sure that the fluid stays full while bleeding.....

[Jeff Aronson]

Brakes

Often a leaky wheel cylinder [or two] results in a pull to one side or the other. You'll also see a lot of goo around the cylinder and on the brake shoes if you have a fluid leak. It's worth pulling the wheel and the drum to see.

If you're not actually losing any brake fluid from the outer reservoir, then consider whether your brakes are adjusted properly. A double pump is usually a sign of the wheel cylinders needing the extra shove to move the shoes against the drum. If you've not adjusted them in a long time, give it a try. Most of the weight on a Series Rover is up front, so do those first. But unless they're all adjusted correctly, you'll have that double pump.

Lastly, there are times when the drums themselves have worn out from use to the point where they're too big for the shoes to grab on the first pump. If you can't seem to adjust the brakes successfully and the shoes are not worn on that wheel, measure the drum.

Jeff