ProLine vs Genuine

[mcb]

I'm going to replace the rear driveshaft and tie rod ends on my Series lla. The Proline drive shaft is $245 cheaper than the Genuine shaft (which is currently on sale at $425). The Proline tie rod ends are 1/2 the cost of Genuine ends. What experiences have fellow Land Rover owners/mechganics had with Proline parts? Are they a quality part or.............?

Thanks - C. Brown

[kevin-ct]

I have used Proline a lot. I had never had a problem with any Proline thing that I purchased. Mark (owner of RN) is very OME type of a person and it took him (and staff) to come out with an aftermarket line. If it is good enough for Mark, it is good enough for me.

[Terrys]

Genuine means it comes in a Land Rover package, but don't automatically assume it's at the top of the quality column, simply because it came from Solihull, and not Westford. I have purchased a lot of proline parts, and for Rangies, Discos, Series trucks and my 110. I have yet to have an issue of any kind, period. Honestly, I wish there were more Pro-Line alternatives for Defenders.

[alaskajosh]

I have been burned more than once with ill-fitting, crap quality "genuine" parts... not saying that's the rule but it surely happens.

To my thinking you essentially pay a surcharge (usually quite steep) to "stay genuine" and it's more a prestige (or collector's authenticity) thing than an issue of quality.

Who's to say that Proline, Allmakes, etc. don't have every chance of meeting or beating LR's sometimes antiquated/crude manufacturing?

One man's opinion--

Kind regards, Josh

[Jeff Aronson]

I love to have Land Rover Genuine Parts on my Rovers but at times, the exchange rate between the pound sterling and the dollar makes the LR part too expensive.

I use my Series Rovers daily and need to have parts that fit and hold up under service. Whenever a Proline part has been sent to me, it has accomplished both impressively.

Jeff

[BGGB]

i've been rebuilding a 65 over the last 4 years and i've used a couple of proline parts. they are pretty good quality or else rn wouldn't sell them is my theory. however i haven't used a proline driveshaft or tie rods, but i think they will be just what you need...and cheaper too.

[jac04]

I've always been a big "Genuine Parts" person, but the price of some Genuine parts has just gotten absurd - like the drive shaft you are looking to buy, which is 'on sale' for $425 versus the original price of $603.37 :eek: . Luckily, I needed a new front drive shaft, so I just sprung the extra $130 for the Genuine Part. However, I went with the Proline U-Joints for repairing my rear drive shaft. We'll see what they look like when they arrive.

Like some others have said, it is my understanding that RN does their homework on the Proline parts and have deemed them to be best that the aftermarket has to offer. So far, the few Proline parts that I have purchased seem to be of high quality.

I specifically purchased the Proline tie rod ends, and they are made by Lemforder. Check them out at:
http://www.zftna.com/lem_usa

[yorker]

Didn't KevinNY get his shaft's made by Tom Woods (http://www.4xshaft.com/Landrover.html)? I think I remember him saying that was what he did. I'd go there or look locally before paying $600 for one. It isn't rocket science it is a drive shaft. :D

[alaskajosh]

Didn't KevinNY get his shaft's made by Tom Woods (http://www.4xshaft.com/Landrover.html)? I think I remember him saying that was what he did. I'd go there or look locally before paying $600 for one. It isn't rocket science it is a drive shaft. :D

That's a good point. If I needed a drive shaft I'd be visiting my local drive-line shop.
It'd probably be better for cheaper. Longer slip joint and all that without the shipping.
Of course it wouldn't be genuine :rolleyes:

Kind regards, Josh

[siiirhd88]

Didn't KevinNY get his shaft's made by Tom Woods (http://www.4xshaft.com/Landrover.html)? I think I remember him saying that was what he did. I'd go there or look locally before paying $600 for one. It isn't rocket science it is a drive shaft. :D

I had Tom Woods build the custom length driveshafts for the wife's V8 / R380 109. I ordered them on Friday, they shipped on Monday and I had them on Wednesday. They have the Rover flange, extended splines, and their heavy duty Jeep size U-joints allow easy purchase of replacements. The price was reasonable, compared to original or Proline shafts. They have plenty of options, including double cardon joints for extreme angles. When the Disco started to vibrate, I figured I would replace the rear shaft with a Tom Woods unit to replace the jubber joint. The Tom Woods unit would have less than 1/2 the cost of the replacement. When I went to measure, it had already been replaced with the factory upgrade shaft, that just needed new joints.

Of course, the Tom Woods units won't be original, if that is how you intend to keep your Rover. On the other side, I have no problem using Proline components. They are a good value for the money.

Bob

[Eric W S]

I think it's better to answer the question

"Can I improve upon the LR part?" If so then replace it if it is not offensive to you. It's your truck. Build as you see fit.

Woods' drive shafts, all of Pangolin4x4's parts, Series Trek parts and modern ignitions are a no brainer.

[TeriAnn]

I'm going to replace the rear driveshaft and tie rod ends on my Series lla. The Proline drive shaft is $245 cheaper than the Genuine shaft (which is currently on sale at $425). The Proline tie rod ends are 1/2 the cost of Genuine ends. What experiences have fellow Land Rover owners/mechganics had with Proline parts? Are they a quality part or.............?


First, Check with Great Basin Rovers first & compare prices. You can go stock or custom. I have Great Basin Rover propshafts front & rear. Mine have longer slip joints & high angle U joints.

Second, Land Rover doesn't make that much themselves. They mostly source components from other companies. So a lot of the time you are paying extra for the box and sending the part through LR's inventory/distribution system. Never assume it is better than that part that follows it down the assembly line and goes into another colour box.

That said, my only objection to Proline is that RN refuses to say who made the part they call Proline. There are some manufacturers, such as Bearmarch that I like to stay away from and there are others such as Mintex that I prefer to purchase from. Sometimes I can only go by the reputation of the manufacturer to guestimate the quality of a prospective purchase. The Proline umbrlla takes that away from me.

[Oscar]

I wonder how many parts in Rover boxes come from "the others" and are EXACTLY the same when bought from "the others" except for the box or bag..... :confused:

[Terrys]

I wonder how many parts in Rover boxes come from "the others" and are EXACTLY the same when bought from "the others" except for the box or bag..... :confused:

Like the charcoal evap. cannister on a Range Rover (Rochester Products), $235 Genuine, or same part, same make, same numbers, from NAPA for $45?

[mcb]

Thanks to all for your advice! Question, is stock slip joint length an issue on an 88" Rover with 3 leaf rear parabolic springs and 2 leaf parabolics in front?

By the way, I did discover that front 2 leaf parabolics can be overstressed with the weight of a Koenig winch. I had to install a third leaf as the 2 leaf orginals flattened out.

[Eric W S]

Thanks to all for your advice! Question, is stock slip joint length an issue on an 88" Rover with 3 leaf rear parabolic springs and 2 leaf parabolics in front?

By the way, I did discover that front 2 leaf parabolics can be overstressed with the weight of a Koenig winch. I had to install a third leaf as the 2 leaf orginals flattened out.

Could be. Para's add lift.

[greenmeanie]

Thanks to all for your advice! Question, is stock slip joint length an issue on an 88" Rover with 3 leaf rear parabolic springs and 2 leaf parabolics in front?


I've had the rear on mine for 6 years and the front got new u-joints about 4 years ago. The truck has done about 100K on parabolics in that time without issue. I'd say for a stock truck there are other issues to adress first before the slip joint.

[jac04]

That said, my only objection to Proline is that RN refuses to say who made the part they call Proline.
I hope someone from RN is reading this thread. We all know that the parts are made by one of the aftermarket companies. Like TeriAnn said, the reputation of the manufacturer will dictate whether or not we want to buy the part. So, to our hosts, PLEASE tell us who makes the part. If RN is really choosing the "best" aftermarket parts, then telling us who makes the part will almost certainly result in a sale versus going to another supplier who will tell you who the part is made by.

[I Leak Oil]

Thanks to all for your advice! Question, is stock slip joint length an issue on an 88" Rover with 3 leaf rear parabolic springs and 2 leaf parabolics in front?

The length of the slip joint is not an issue. Stock drive shafts work just fine with parabolic springs.
Jason T.

[alaskajosh]

Question, is stock slip joint length an issue on an 88" Rover with 3 leaf rear parabolic springs and 2 leaf parabolics in front?



I can't speak to the parabolic question, per se. But did you/will you upgrade shocks?
In my case, if I upgrade shocks, my front slip joint will bottom out harshly! My OEM shocks are what limit the suspension travel. If I do what seems obvious (upgrade to OME for more travel) I'll probably break something!

Kind regards, Josh

[I Leak Oil]

Josh, are you refering to the shaft bottoming out on the cross member or the slip yoke on the drive shaft coming un-done? It is a common problem for the drive shaft to make contact with cross member when the truck is lifted, even just slightly, but that has nothing to do with the slip yoke. My solution was to notch the cross member.
Jason T.

[Eric W S]

I hope someone from RN is reading this thread. We all know that the parts are made by one of the aftermarket companies. Like TeriAnn said, the reputation of the manufacturer will dictate whether or not we want to buy the part. So, to our hosts, PLEASE tell us who makes the part. If RN is really choosing the "best" aftermarket parts, then telling us who makes the part will almost certainly result in a sale versus going to another supplier who will tell you who the part is made by.

If I spent considerable time and effort as a vendor to source good quality affordable parts why would I divulge the source? I wouldn't. Another vendor could capitalize on the supplier and then what? A price war until one vendor wins and we all loose?

End of the day, buy from a vendor you trust. I trust ProLine parts, I trust RN to stand by them and I trust RN's customer service should a problem arise.

Personally, I find it suspect that TA, who has a more than casual relationship with a competing vendor, is so adamant that RN divulge trade secrets on the internet.

[alaskajosh]

No, the splined slip joint in the shaft bottoms out.

Luckily I don't seem to have a crossmember fouling issue.

Kind regards, Josh

[I Leak Oil]

That is unusual in a couple ways. First, if the transfer case and axle are in the right place the shaft should have plenty of travel. Second, if it bottoms out is should come apart :eek: ....

Maybe someone put a rear shaft on the front?
Jason T.

[alaskajosh]

That is unusual in a couple ways. First, if the transfer case and axle are in the right place the shaft should have plenty of travel. Second, if it bottoms out is should come apart :eek: ....

Maybe someone put a rear shaft on the front?
Jason T.

I think what's going on is that some previous owner installed a 2.25 FDS and what I've got here is a 2.6 frame. At any rate, a (reputable) local custom shop is going to be a "custom" fit for whatever mishmash any of us has. And probably as good or better than original in quality of parts.

Enjoy your weekend! Josh

[I Leak Oil]

That's most likely the problem then. Wrong combination of springs, driveshaft and frame.
Jason T.

[jac04]

If I spent considerable time and effort as a vendor to source good quality affordable parts why would I divulge the source?
From my experience so far, there isn't anything all that special about the manufacturer/supplier of the Proline parts. The Proline parts that I have received are made by the same manufacturers that the other competing vendors are already using. However, I do see your point.

[sayers]

If I spent considerable time and effort as a vendor to source good quality affordable parts why would I divulge the source? I wouldn't. Another vendor could capitalize on the supplier and then what? A price war until one vendor wins and we all loose?

End of the day, buy from a vendor you trust. I trust ProLine parts, I trust RN to stand by them and I trust RN's customer service should a problem arise.

Personally, I find it suspect that TA, who has a more than casual relationship with a competing vendor, is so adamant that RN divulge trade secrets on the internet.

Eric, you are exactly right. It's not anyone elses business. If you do not like what RN sells go somewhere else.

[TeriAnn]

Personally, I find it suspect that TA, who has a more than casual relationship with a competing vendor, is so adamant that RN divulge trade secrets on the internet.
Yes I am the web site designer for British Pacific. I live about 500 miles North of British Pacific so they are my "local" supplier (UPS ground gets to me second day). But I am also a Rovers North Customer and consider them my secondary supplier (7 days UPS ground). I'm on first name basis with several of the RN employees and think they are a good knowledgeable bunch of squared away guys.

But you know, there aren't all that many suppliers of Series land Rover parts and all the retailers know who they are. There is nothing "secret" about who supplies which part. Get BP on the phone and ask who made a part they offer. They'll tell you without hesitation because there is no special source secret. BP sources brake shoes & pads from five different companies just because some customers prefer different product characteristics for their brakes. It is not a big deal unless you are going with a company that makes cheap pattern parts and selling them as top of the line aftermarket parts. I'm not accusing RN of doing this. I'm sure they are sourcing quality all the way.

The Proline programme allows them to use a single part number for a product type regardless of brand. It saves inventory work, database entry work and simplifies part juggling. I think the concept is good. The negative thing for customers is that a RN generated part number with an unknown brand behind the part number makes comparison shopping very difficult as the RN part number doesn't map into LR's part numbering system and you never know if you are comparing Fuji apples with Fuji apples. Its just that when I shop at RN I would like to be able to ask the brand of the part I am shopping for. My concern is that of a customer and not because one of my clients is a competitor. As I said earlier, there are only a few manufacturers & everyone knows who they are. Just about anyone except RN will be up front on the brand on the shelf if you ask.

[TSR53]

I hope someone from RN is reading this thread. We all know that the parts are made by one of the aftermarket companies. Like TeriAnn said, the reputation of the manufacturer will dictate whether or not we want to buy the part. So, to our hosts, PLEASE tell us who makes the part. If RN is really choosing the "best" aftermarket parts, then telling us who makes the part will almost certainly result in a sale versus going to another supplier who will tell you who the part is made by.

I hope this helps address your concerns. Mark asked me to post this.

"We are building on our own quality reputation. It is extremely important for us to have the ability to change manufacturers smoothly when quality or availability issues surface w/o being subject to false advertising, or bait and switch.

Second, it is to protect our sources from competitors, manufactures, and major parts vendors who feel it is in their best interest to control territory, distribution and or pricing of their product.

Third, it helps reduce fraudulent warranty claims. We offer the best warranty in the industry and this requires us to label our parts in a manor that proves they originated from ourselves. Although this does not completely protect us from abuse it helps enough to allow us to support our customers at this level.

Please understand, I've been in this industry for 30 years. Often what is perceived as the best component sometimes is nothing close, and some of our best manufactures, many the same that supply to Land Rover, are completely unknown to the general public. Most of our manufactures are industry only w/ no branding or distribution retail / network.

In the end we alone are responsible to our customers. We are totally loyal to our customers and are building a quality product line they can depend on. In any case I am not aware of ever refusing to identify a manufacturer to a customer purchasing from us. So you are always welcome to inquire w/our sales team. I hope this helps address your concerns.

Respectfully,
Mark Letorney".

[109 Pretender]

This has been a good read - and everyone has valid issues/concerns. My experiences are based on my getting a quality part for a fair price. All vendors meet that criteria on some of their stock. However, sometimes a part will rise in cost drastically (ie LR 109 front wheel cylinders) for uncertain reasons. Might be the exchange rate, supply/demand, etc. When it gets beyond my personal limit for funds, I start looking for alternatives. I have dealt with RN for almost 30 years now, along with BP, AB, DAP, and many others. RN has always seemed to me to be the most knowledgable, fastest and most correct on shipping, and all the other things that I look for in a business relationship. The others have been ok for the most part too. But, my long association and trust in RN allows me to justify paying a bit more to give them my business and the Proline stuff has been OEM quality every time.
There are some parts I will not go cheap on - electrical, hard engine/trans. parts etc. Anything that could go catastropic, I pay extra for the best part - and sometimes the best is aftermarket. Experience, either personal or learned from this BBS will help someone make that decision and stay within a reasonable budget. That is what the Proline alternative does for us - keeps our Rovers on the road and leaves us with some gas/diesel change to drive it ...

PS - Buy your bearings locally - Timken USA is same as Timken England.
Dana Spicer is a USA company and all flanges, u-joints etc are built using international standards - so a USA sourced driveshaft will be the same as original unless you upgrade to long spline, wide yoke units - which is ok too!

Cheers!

[jac04]

In case you are wondering, the Proline u-joints that I received were in CarQuest packages. However, they are made by NEAPCO, which is supposed to be a good quality brand.

[yorker]

You all are familiar with the various alternative parts listings right?

http://www.bayourovers.com/links2.html

ex:
U-joints AEC Brand AEC 521 HD 286 U-joint 2 15/16" across (late)
AEC 504 3092 U-joint 2 7/32" across (early)
also Spicer 5-153X (for later models I believe)

http://www.ovlr.org/OVLR.alt.parts.html


Driveshaft u-joint 1948-62 Precision 344
Driveshaft u-joint 1962-73 Precision 369



http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LRpartNumbers.htm#ujoint