would you purchase a discovery?

[chester rides again]

:D i'm in love and having a blast with my '68 109. my '06 toyota sienna's lease is about up and i need to replace it. i love the space that the minivan has, but hate that it's a minivan.

one of the requirements my wife and i are talking about is the ability to handle 6 people - the two of us, our young kids and their friends - as we go around town or on longer trips.

i'm considering a ford excursion, but they are HUGE, however it solves the NOT A MINIVAN syndrome i'm currently facing. there are many "SUV" type vehicles out that have the little 3rd row of seats. i think they are pretty much a joke, but they should probably be considered.

another real option is a disco - i don't have much of an idea about them, but see that they depreciate fairly quickly so i'm a bit concerned. i'm not looking for something in great condition or that expensive - i'll let the wife have her dream car as i already have mine...

[TCapelle]

Chester

You will probably get feedback on both sides of the aisle.

I own 3 series vehicles, a RRC and a 98 Disco

Our Disco is the "family" truck. It is a very affordable SUV that if you buy them right (meaning one that was taken care of ) you'll find you get a lot of truck for the money....

I think the 2 adults, 2 kids is no problem- 6 people is a bit tight though - you woudl need to get the "7 seater" which has the jump seats in the back for the kids (you decide iif that is safe or not)

Anyways I really like my Disco - its a good fit for us- and affordable (again I am sure some have had more isues with their Disco than I have)

I am a bigger fan of the Disco 1 (98 an older) vs disco 2.....

[BackInA88]

I have a 2001 DII and love it!
It is very capitable off road and rides good on the hiway even with a 2" lift.
Gas mileage sucks.
And if you don't do your own vehicle work it can drive you to the poor house.:p

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/slouzon/Discovery/P1010744.jpg

Steve

[leafsprung]

-Last in reliability surveys every year
-very expensive to repair and maintain
-terrible resale values
-use a 40+ year old drivetrain that wasn't even that good then
-awful gas mileage
-worst fit and finish in the industry
-couldn't rust any faster if they were bare metal
-a rich history of catching fire and burning to the ground

But . . .people love them. There's a lot of them still on the roads. They are cheap to buy, make a fair dual purpose vehicle. They have some character (compared to a minivan). They are fairly comfortable and there are a lot of used parts available.

[jp-]

Leaf,

Does all of that apply to a 1996 RR HSE? I'm looking at one of those.

(Would do the Coil Spring conversion myself.)

[leafsprung]

pretty much all of them, some dont catch fire quite as badly. Every coilsprung land rover suffers from these issues except the utility models which have better resale.

[jp-]

What exactly catches fire?

Also, any news on the NV4500 adapter to the Rover t-case?

[bmohan55]

We love our 04 Disco, and it's been pretty reliable! Need jump seats to get more than 5 people in them though. With the tall roof line and ample glass it feel like there is more room than there really is. Mileage averages 14-15... premuim fuel. Lots of more pratical vehicles out there but none more fun.

[Les Parker]

I resisted for the longest time, (being a Range Rover Classic fan, I own 4 of them), however when a local ad. was seen with a 97 4.0 SD manual Discovery, I could hold back, nah more ! I laid the $1700.00 down and drove it away.
The dogs (Border Collie and Jack Russel) much prefer the access on the Discovery and the better vantage point from the folded down rear seats, is a real positive.
Other than the rear windows not going down, something to do with dog slobber on the rear window switches, the car has been ultra reliable nad still returns 18-20 MPG.
So, in short, yes I would buy another, though my wife would prefer an auto, as she works in town and the manual is awkward in traffic.

2p

[SafeAirOne]

the car has been ultra reliable nad still returns 18-20 MPG.

Wow! ours with the auto box only got 13-15 on it's best day.

[leafsprung]

JP

Im not sure what catches fire (Ive never owned a RR). It may be the oil cooler lines like the defenders (which also burn to the ground frequently) Theres a few videos on youtube of RRs burning (apparently the p38s like to burn too) Heres one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=448Zt1CmPtE

and of course Ive actually had a few friends who have had their RRCs burn to the ground.

As for the NV4500 adaptors, Im not sure where they are at now in terms of productions (Its not me thats making them)

[Eric W S]

What exactly catches fire?

Also, any news on the NV4500 adapter to the Rover t-case?

Don't know about the Disco's, but Defender Oil Cooler lines catch fire right away. If they burst, they spray right onto a hot manifold...

ECR has great info on their site about it and I think? they still offer a kit for Defenders...

Gotta agree with Ike. I sold my Defender to buy a mostly restored 1966 SWB. The difference in pricing for parts is amazing. I feel like I am always getting a discount.

[thixon]

I've never owned a discovery or RR, so take this for what its worth. I'm gonna stay away from the fire issues, and just give you my opinion on functionality as a family vehicle based on my own observations.

Plenty of my nieghbors have RR and Discos, LR3's etc. All are cramped if you have two or more kids. By the time you pack in the family, and add all the stuff you have to haul along, forget about it. Six people isnt even an option. It seems they're always in for service as well.

When we go somewhere with another family (who has one of the afore mentioned vehicles), it seems we always end up driving because everyone can fit in our truck. I have three kids, and had always bought tahoes. This last time we switched up to an expedition. Its been great. It has a third row seat, and you can remove the center section of the middle seat for easy access to the back. The interior isn't nearly as nice as the RR or even a Disco, but it also doesn't tear up as easily.

If a kid truck is what you're after, my vote would be a tahoe or expedition (again, based on my own experience). The excursion is just too big.

Good luck!

[I Leak Oil]

I haven't read anything that isn't true in this thread so far. But I'm in the minority with my ownership experience. I had a '96 and put well over 100K miles on it. Changed the oil as usual, did the brakes once, tires, but that's really it. I sold it for $4K in 2004 because I got the feeling I would be looking at an altenator, steering box, radiator, complete exhaust, sunroof repairs, more brakes, etc. and rust if I lifted up the carpets. Even if I did keep it it really would be too small for me now as the kids are getting bigger and the camping trips longer.

It was a good vehicle for me and was fun to own. I do miss it now and then.
Jason T.

[scott]

my wife has the lr3 (disco iii) it's nice. has 3rd row, seats 7, i'm 5'10" and was comfortible sitting in the way back on long road trips. cruises great on the hwy. in town it feels more like a truck, a little wobblely. hse model has quite a few ammenities. mileage sucks, 14 mpg in town never more that 21 hwy and as low as 17 while cruis'n into a strong headwind.

seen some nicely tricked out older discos here in albuquerque. guy named rob builds 'em up for his clients.

[TCongletonRovers]

The fire problem everyone speaks of is caused usually by oil cooler and tranny cooler lines. the setup is essentiallly the same for Discovery and range rover classic, with two cooler lines for tranny and two for oil cooler. the lines as anyone who has replaced can attest to; are of metal/rubber with many tranistions per line. the factory seal that clamps rubber tubing onto metal line begins to weep with age. this then drips onto the super hot catalytic converters, or some other part of the Y pipe and fire you will have. carry an extinguisher and ocasionally check your rearview for smoke. Replacing these lines, available genuine at Rovers North, solve the problem.

[chester rides again]

thanks for the input. the reason i'm considering the disco is the fact that you can get one pretty cheap. it sounds like i need to look for one that has been well cared for and i'll stand a better chance of reducing the cost of ownership.

i'm 6'2" and my kids are 7 and 8, so i'm definitely interested in the 3rd row and understand that it's ideal for kids. i also realize that the space is limited when using the rear seats.

thanks again for all the feedback.

[jp-]

i'm 6'2" and my kids are 7 and 8...


Those are some tall kids. Maybe they can go pro?

[Eric W S]

Da Bulls could use all the help we can...:thumb-up:

[Donnie]

:eek: I have never owned one nor do I intend to ,for the reasons that Ike described, he pretty much covered it. I could add a couple of things that I noticed on my friends cars , but will refrain my observations..It's your bux...........

[Les Parker]

Just a quick note on the DI, they, as much as Series vehicles and much of the "pysche" of getting into these vehicles, need to be maintained.
The reason most of the vehs. reach 200k, is due to owners taking care of their ride, not just putting air in the tyres and fuel in the tank.

2p

[Limestone]

Here's a guy that has done quite a bit of work on his Range Rover.Ready for the next owner to enjoy!:eek:
http://http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Classic-LWB_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7c 39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhas hZitem230321814138QQitemZ230321814138QQptZUSQ5fCar sQ5fTrucks

[BDM]

-Last in reliability surveys every year
-very expensive to repair and maintain (When it comes down to it, parts are readily available and there are shops that will take of them.)
-terrible resale values (That's a good thing. The value you get is unmatched)
-use a 40+ year old drivetrain that wasn't even that good then (False to very false)
-awful gas mileage (As good as my 98 Jeep Cherokee 15/19)
-worst fit and finish in the industry (True, but it makes up for that in other areas:) )
-couldn't rust any faster if they were bare metal (Hmmm, not if properly taken care of, like any other vehicle.)
-a rich history of catching fire and burning to the ground (See below...)

But . . .people love them. There's a lot of them still on the roads. They are cheap to buy, make a fair dual purpose vehicle. They have some character (compared to a minivan). They are fairly comfortable and there are a lot of used parts available.

I frequent these forums b/c I love the old Series and hope to have one in the future. I saw this thread and felt I have to weigh in. I currently own a '99 Discovery I.

First off, I've never heard of Disco's catching on fire like the Defender's. Leafsprung needs to do his homework on the Discovery before he makes generalizations comparing RR and Defenders. Yes, essentially they are the same vehicle within diff skin/frame, but they are different. The Disco's changed over to the 4.0 in 96 which also fixed a lot of these problems.

When not properly maintained, these vehicles will be a nightmare, so when looking for one make sure it has a complete documented history of service work. The biggest is fluids. Rovers leak, oil is the biggest as is power steering. The good thing is that many PO's have addressed these issues by now. If not, look for these when purchasing.

My Disco I has 140k on the odo and I've never had any problems. I did my homework on the vehicle before purchasing and reviewed all the receipts. It does have its leaks but its well maintained history won me over. It's not odd to hear these trucks going 300k or more. It also has all time 4wd which is a comfort in the rain/inclement weather and I can pack the whole family with the rear jump seats. Heated seats, pwr windows, leather, no sunroofs (they can be problematic ie leaks). I wouldn't hesitate to drive it across the country tomorrow. Compare all this to a Grand Cherokee, which is smaller, less cargo/leg room. If you want to talk about high maintenance, check one of these babies out. Windows, transmissions, no AWD, no 3rd row seating in the older ones, and the trim inside/outside will completely fall off while your driving it. I've had Jeeps since I could drive, CJ's, Liberty's, Cherokee's, FSJ Wagoneers...none of them as heavy duty and comfortable as my LR.

So to end this novel, I would suggest the Discovery I, 95-99, 99 being the best year. BMW did a good job of many fixes and updates to the platform by then. Check the history and lastly let us know about a probable purchase!

Cheers,
Brendon

[I Leak Oil]

I have to agree with Leafsprung,

-Parts availability and the fact that someone is willing to work on them doesn't detract from the fact that they are expensive to repair/maintain.
-Low resale value is only good if you're buying, not if you're selling(who keeps a vehicle forever?)
-Similar mileage of a GC at 15-18 mpg just means the GC is bad also.
-Rust? Yes they rust quickly compared to other contemporary vehicles. Pull up the carpets and find out. If properly maintaining your vehicle means cutting and welding in panels after 10 years then, yes, this is the vehicle for you!

I liked my disco but there are some facts that just can't be countered no matter how much emotional attachment you have to it.
Jason T.

[leafsprung]

Leafsprung needs to do his homework on the Discovery

yeah, what would I know :rolleyes:

[JimCT]

Unless you have owned a RR classic or disco your comments are based on second hand knowledge. Our series is our daily driver and my favorite, but our classic RR will do everything the series can and more and you are sitting in leather luxury, listening to music and no shifting into 4wd. They are different but the reasons you were dissing them where pretty lame. The RR is a really good and capable truck. Deal with it.

[leafsprung]

They are different but the reasons you were dissing them where pretty lame.

Can you think of better reasons? cost of ownership and reliability seem like reasonable things to pick on. Ive never owned one but dealt with many. Out of four coilsprung rovers in our family i think the longest lived was 67K miles before a major repair was needed. I will happily concede that some people like them and have good experiences with them. I will even go so far as to say good examples exist; but the vast majority are trash. The local charities have had several RRCs and Discos recently. Apparently they are so hard to sell right now that people are literally giving them away.

[Mercedesrover]

Sorry, but Ike is right on here. Arguing reliability when you're talking about most any coil-sprung Land Rover is a bit like shoveling crap against tide. There's just to much history there. Sure, there are good ones out there. Sure lots of guys have good luck with them. But, the vast majority of them are unreliable and troublesome. And yes, I've owned one. What a great feeling seeing the tail lights of that truck heading to New Jersey.

Jeff, you're up in Plattsburg so anything you find up there is going to be a rot-box. Maybe if you find one down south....

If you buy one with 100k on the clock (that's probably low mileage for one of these things at this point) expect to spend a couple grand in parts alone in the next couple years. It's just gonna happen. Fuel pump, ignition parts, water pump, brake calipers, radiator, etc., etc. These trucks seem to like getting new parts thrown at them.

And yes, you'll need to change the tranny cooling lines. They will burst. That's a fact. I just helped a buddy patch his up on the side of the road Saturday. Whether they break in a place that sprays oil on the manifold and burns the truck up is just a matter of chance. Yes, these trucks burn up because of this. It happens and pretty often.

And don't expect 15-18 mpg, especially in the winter. Up where you are, More like 12mpg. Maybe 14 if you burn two-star.


I work in the auto industry and have cars given to me quite often. Since scrap isn't worth anything these days, I don't take these things anymore. Go out and buy her a Subaru. Not as romantic is your spiffy, Disco but it'll get her home at night.

[109 Pretender]

I agree w/Ike and Mercedesrover on this one 100%. Go back and read some of the literature on Disco's written over the years - it's not good. I seem to remember everyone being truly dismayed when the Disco first came out - and much moreso when the horror stories started coming from the owners.
Check the used value of the Disco and Classic RR (which I truly want to like - just can't get past all the problems...) Value is always based around supply and demand. There's a lot of classic RR and Disco's on the market and they can all be had for 1-2K all day long. Nobody wants to mess with the problems and expense of putting them back in drivable/reliable shape.
However, with enough time and money you could do it - just don't expect anyone to reimburse you when you decide to sell - it'll still be worth next to nothing (and I don't expect the Discovery series to ever be 'collectible' in the same sense as the LR series/Defender). Do what I did and get a reliable Toy FJ Cruiser for a daily driver:thumb-up:
Cheers!

[graniterover]

I wrote this as advice for someone else in another forum a few years ago, but I think you might find it useful.

For the record, I did own one, and have been driving a borrowed one for the past two months. In that past two months I've been locked out, locked in, had a tire blow, the hood won't pop, the electric seat only goes in one direction.... I can go on. And both my truck and the one I'm driving had regular maint.

***************************************


If you had read the checkin, you'd realize your ****box does not have a factory locker when you read your manual.

Next, using your post, someone would need ****ing esp to figure out what your shifting question is, as you left out 90% of the detail.

Finally, let me give you some realistic advice about the oil pissing money pit you just bought. Although this is a hackneyed statement:

the day you bought that thing and the day you sell it will be your two favorite days.

Here's what's going to happen:

Since you bought it at a million miles, **** is going to break left and right. Even if some dbag who owned it before had some **** like 'one owner, dealer serviced' in the ad when he posted it for sale, it's still going to break. Even if the only off road it saw was when the ******* who owned it before you was when his wife backed it out of the garage and hit a rhododendron, it's going to break.

The idler for the serpentine belt is going to seize when the bearing heats up with no grease in it. If you're lucky, this will happen when you're driving into your driveway. I say lucky as when it goes, you no longer have power steering (probably doesn't work anyway, but I'll get to that later), and you also no longer have a working alternator. Oh, btw, the alternator is going to start squealing at some point, so you're going to have to replace that. Might as well get that while you're replacing the idler. OH! And grab a new belt while you're at it. Ok, back to the steering. The power steering pump is going to leak from every seal, pipe, cap, bolt, etc. Don't bother trying to fix it, just keep fluid with you and top it off when you get gas. You'll be doing that all the time since the pig gets like 12 mpg. Oh! and you're supposed to put hi octane in it, so be prepared to bend over once or twice a week when you fill it up. When you're ordering the parts above, might as well order the oil cooler pipes that pass by the radiator on the drivers side as they are going to rust through and piss oil everywhere on your way to work. Oh, another thing to add to the list. Replace all the wheel bearings unless you want them to suddenly fail on the highway and weld themselves to the spindle, while yanking the steering wheel out of your hand. It will be so sudden that you may think that you jerked the steering wheel while waking up after passing out while driving. It's great that you got the disco with two sunroofs since one or both is going to fail. Save up for some steel wheels because the alloy wheels on it are going to be useless after a few trips off road. Oh, more stuff to order - diff protectors since the paper ones that came with this beautiful truck are likely to piss like a scared little girl when the first stick pokes at them. Steering protection for the pencil thin tie rods. Oh! Almost forgot, the rattling you hear is the cats that have **** the bed. Order those. Oh! Might as well order some exhaust manifolds and gaskets since those are either cracked or about to crack. Do you have a dog? Do yourself a favor and order new hinges for the rear door. If not, it's going to break when you're on your way to get coffee at 5:30 in the morning while fido is in the way back. You'll hear a little squeak from the canine and look in your rear view mirror. For a second, you're brain is going to process what it's seeing. Yes, it's seeing your dog sitting in the back while the door is wide open, hanging on one hinge. BTW, the heavy duty hinges from Atlantic British are $150 bucks. I almost wrote 'probably worth it', but 150 bucks for ****ing hinges! Are you kidding me! Since you're into the tune up and other crap up above for a couple k, might as well get the checkbook out for a few more things. Get a snorkle. It's like 400 of the best dollars you'll ever spend. (I'm kidding about that one, almost no one NEEDS a snorkle). Order the 100 dollar lift kit from ebay. You can put that on when you're fixing the hole in the diff because you decided to buy that snorkle instead of diff covers. Oh! back to your question. That hard shift is one of about 10 things. Get the checkbook out again and order a front driveshaft, that's probably gone, even if it's not the source of the hard shifting. Forgive me for forgetting what this piece is called, but there is some stupid flex disk somewhere in the rear driveshaft near the ujoints - that' s probably gone. Oh! Order u joints and put those on when you're under there putting the ebay 100 dollar lift in. Oh, one more thing for the checkbook while it's jacked up - order 4 new rotors and pads. Maybe you can make it a weekend and do the uj's, lift, wheel bearings, rotors, and pads. And steel wheels. OOh! You can spend an hour or so playing 'find the rust'. It's on the rear wheelwell inside the door, a lot hidden in the front fenders - not the fender part, the inner fenders. Doors probably have some rust too. Just get some por 15 in the color of your choice and spread it on. Don't forget to peel up the carpet as all that sound deadening material rover put on there to make you think the truck is 'quiet' actually trapped ever molecule of moisture that ever went in the truck since the day it came off the build line.

Just wanted you to know what you're in for. FWIW, I LOVED my disco, and unfortunately sold it to someone local so my kids have to tell me 'daddy, we saw your truck, someone else was driving it'.

[BDM]

yeah, what would I know :rolleyes:

Sorry leafsprung, didn't intend it to sound like you're not knowledgable on the subject. Only that I have not heard of Discovery's having a problem burning like their Defender brothers.

My whole point was that when properly maintained, they can be reliable. Mine among many others are proof. Yes, it requires a little more maintenance. I'll have to address my oil leaks and ps leaks but to me it's worth a weekend of labor for all this truck offers.

[CMorris]

I'm not sure Chester is even paying attention to this thread any longer but thought I might chime in here. I work for a Land Rover dealership and have owned a Disco II, D90, a few Series trucks, and my current "driver" is an LR3. Not sure of what your budget is Chester, but currently there are waves of LR3's coming in off lease (most are 2006MY). In my opinion they are a bargain (can be sold certified in the upper teens to low 20's), have warranty, can be certified by LR dealers. Our shop performs mostly normal maint. on these trucks (pretty much problem free). I like the LR3 much better than the Disco, ride, power and comfort wise. The only drawback as stated previously in this thread is 14mpg on good day.

[daveb]

Do what I did and get a reliable Toy FJ Cruiser for a daily driver:thumb-up:
Cheers!

ummm, until the body starts cracking...

http://yotatech.com/f135/fender-body-crack-bulge-fj-cruiser-123655/

lol...you're better off with a disco...

[thixon]

Alright, I can't take it anymore. I have to comment.

BDM,

This all boils down to someones definition of "reliable" and a persons tolerance for performing maintenance. I've driven plenty of brit cars as daily drivers over the years (mostly when I was young-er). I was willing to fix them when they broke, and did'nt mind doing preventative maintenance to avoid breakdowns. However, my willingness to do that did'nt make those cars "reliable" when compared to the japanese and german cars that my buddies drove. Compare a high mileage discovery to something like a suburu outback (mercedesrover suggested that one), and I think you'll find there is no comparison. Be honest, you drive the disco because its different, and you like it. Great. More power to you. All of us here share that in common. My DD is an audi allroad. There are things on that car that could go splat at any moment. I think the thing is cool, and different, and there are few on the road. I'm willing to assume the risk of having to pay for the parts to fix it. I don't, however, dilude myself into thinking its as reliable as a suburu outback. The fact is, it isn't (and niether is your disco).

[leafsprung]

Only that I have not heard of Discovery's having a problem burning like their Defender brothers.

Perhaps you havent heard, but they also frequently burn to the ground. The local wrecking yard had two burnt discos (one disco1 one disco 2) for months. No one bought anything off of them so they finally scrapped them.

[Terrys]

Perhaps you havent heard, but they also frequently burn to the ground. The local wrecking yard had two burnt discos (one disco1 one disco 2) for months. No one bought anything off of them so they finally scrapped them.

Sadisco is the largest insurance salvage auctioneer in the country, though they only have yards in 15 states in the SE. They have three in Florida alone. A friend of mine is a buyer and is the one who found my NAS 110 back in 2001. I just called him to ask how many burned Disco's he's seen, and he said none, so he called the Sadisco yard in West Palm, who told them they have had a total of 7 burned Discos going back to 1994.(That's in all yards in the 15 states) I guess they must only burn to the ground in the NW

[Mercedesrover]

My brother runs the Burlington VT. yard for Auto Insurance Auctions. They have 160 yards across the country.

Right this minute they have 255 totaled Land Rover Discovery in inventory. Out of 255 trucks 13 of them are fires.

Yeah, they burn.

[CliftonRover]

I would expect that they burn because many of the people that bought them did not have a clue about service. If you maintain the oil and tranny cooler lines you should be fine. I have never heard of the fuel lines causing any trouble.

I also just bought one though a 96 with 188k, the truck is mint. I just did a head gasket because of a faulty manufacturing process with the previous head gasket replacement. I can see the truck being a great daily driver or trail truck.

[BDM]

Alright, I can't take it anymore. I have to comment.

BDM,

This all boils down to someones definition of "reliable" and a persons tolerance for performing maintenance. I've driven plenty of brit cars as daily drivers over the years (mostly when I was young-er). I was willing to fix them when they broke, and did'nt mind doing preventative maintenance to avoid breakdowns. However, my willingness to do that did'nt make those cars "reliable" when compared to the japanese and german cars that my buddies drove. Compare a high mileage discovery to something like a suburu outback (mercedesrover suggested that one), and I think you'll find there is no comparison. Be honest, you drive the disco because its different, and you like it. Great. More power to you. All of us here share that in common. My DD is an audi allroad. There are things on that car that could go splat at any moment. I think the thing is cool, and different, and there are few on the road. I'm willing to assume the risk of having to pay for the parts to fix it. I don't, however, dilude myself into thinking its as reliable as a suburu outback. The fact is, it isn't (and niether is your disco).

By all means, I couldn't agree more. A subi is more reliable historically and does not warrant a fight otherwise. If we're comparing a Disco to any other SUV, for the price, the value is arguable, as we have seen here. I really enjoy the comfort, having AWD, and lots of room. Yeah, it does win me style points but it also is very functional.

I'm sure some do burn to the ground. Again, all I'm saying is that there are good ones out there. You could have this same arguement about Audi's.

[jp-]

Subaru sucks. The only one I had was a mechanical nightmare. On this model there was a shaft that went inside the end of the crankshaft into the transmission to drive the trans oil pump. The teeth on the shaft stripped out and the trans had no oil pressure so, no go. I had to pull the freaking motor to replace the shaft. Dumb, dumb design. And that was only one of a dozen other major problems.

And by the way, not all fires are "real" fires. There are people who have been lighting up their cars to get out of loans. Not sure if that's a big problem with these vehicles or not.

[Eric W S]

I would expect that they burn because many of the people that bought them did not have a clue about service. If you maintain the oil and tranny cooler lines you should be fine. I have never heard of the fuel lines causing any trouble.

You can't blame service for poor engineering.

Regular maintenance also isn't the fix. The OEM lines aren't exactly the greatest and the lines can erupt at random it seems.

Change your lines (and follow ECR's example) or carry an ample supple of marshmellows with you...

[Mercedesrover]

Subaru sucks.

Saying you had a bad Subaru is the same as saying you had a good Disco! :p

[jp-]

Just saying my one (and only) Subaru experience was not a pleasant one.

[thixon]

JP,

My dad is on the way to beat up your dad. He is stopping by Ralph Nadars on the way.:D

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5531&page=7
(just in case you forgot what I'm writing about!)

[Donnie]

I wrote this as advice for someone else in another forum a few years ago, but I think you might find it useful.

For the record, I did own one, and have been driving a borrowed one for the past two months. In that past two months I've been locked out, locked in, had a tire blow, the hood won't pop, the electric seat only goes in one direction.... I can go on. And both my truck and the one I'm driving had regular maint.

***************************************


If you had read the checkin, you'd realize your ****box does not have a factory locker when you read your manual.

Next, using your post, someone would need ****ing esp to figure out what your shifting question is, as you left out 90% of the detail.

Finally, let me give you some realistic advice about the oil pissing money pit you just bought. Although this is a hackneyed statement:

the day you bought that thing and the day you sell it will be your two favorite days.

Here's what's going to happen:

Since you bought it at a million miles, **** is going to break left and right. Even if some dbag who owned it before had some **** like 'one owner, dealer serviced' in the ad when he posted it for sale, it's still going to break. Even if the only off road it saw was when the ******* who owned it before you was when his wife backed it out of the garage and hit a rhododendron, it's going to break.

The idler for the serpentine belt is going to seize when the bearing heats up with no grease in it. If you're lucky, this will happen when you're driving into your driveway. I say lucky as when it goes, you no longer have power steering (probably doesn't work anyway, but I'll get to that later), and you also no longer have a working alternator. Oh, btw, the alternator is going to start squealing at some point, so you're going to have to replace that. Might as well get that while you're replacing the idler. OH! And grab a new belt while you're at it. Ok, back to the steering. The power steering pump is going to leak from every seal, pipe, cap, bolt, etc. Don't bother trying to fix it, just keep fluid with you and top it off when you get gas. You'll be doing that all the time since the pig gets like 12 mpg. Oh! and you're supposed to put hi octane in it, so be prepared to bend over once or twice a week when you fill it up. When you're ordering the parts above, might as well order the oil cooler pipes that pass by the radiator on the drivers side as they are going to rust through and piss oil everywhere on your way to work. Oh, another thing to add to the list. Replace all the wheel bearings unless you want them to suddenly fail on the highway and weld themselves to the spindle, while yanking the steering wheel out of your hand. It will be so sudden that you may think that you jerked the steering wheel while waking up after passing out while driving. It's great that you got the disco with two sunroofs since one or both is going to fail. Save up for some steel wheels because the alloy wheels on it are going to be useless after a few trips off road. Oh, more stuff to order - diff protectors since the paper ones that came with this beautiful truck are likely to piss like a scared little girl when the first stick pokes at them. Steering protection for the pencil thin tie rods. Oh! Almost forgot, the rattling you hear is the cats that have **** the bed. Order those. Oh! Might as well order some exhaust manifolds and gaskets since those are either cracked or about to crack. Do you have a dog? Do yourself a favor and order new hinges for the rear door. If not, it's going to break when you're on your way to get coffee at 5:30 in the morning while fido is in the way back. You'll hear a little squeak from the canine and look in your rear view mirror. For a second, you're brain is going to process what it's seeing. Yes, it's seeing your dog sitting in the back while the door is wide open, hanging on one hinge. BTW, the heavy duty hinges from Atlantic British are $150 bucks. I almost wrote 'probably worth it', but 150 bucks for ****ing hinges! Are you kidding me! Since you're into the tune up and other crap up above for a couple k, might as well get the checkbook out for a few more things. Get a snorkle. It's like 400 of the best dollars you'll ever spend. (I'm kidding about that one, almost no one NEEDS a snorkle). Order the 100 dollar lift kit from ebay. You can put that on when you're fixing the hole in the diff because you decided to buy that snorkle instead of diff covers. Oh! back to your question. That hard shift is one of about 10 things. Get the checkbook out again and order a front driveshaft, that's probably gone, even if it's not the source of the hard shifting. Forgive me for forgetting what this piece is called, but there is some stupid flex disk somewhere in the rear driveshaft near the ujoints - that' s probably gone. Oh! Order u joints and put those on when you're under there putting the ebay 100 dollar lift in. Oh, one more thing for the checkbook while it's jacked up - order 4 new rotors and pads. Maybe you can make it a weekend and do the uj's, lift, wheel bearings, rotors, and pads. And steel wheels. OOh! You can spend an hour or so playing 'find the rust'. It's on the rear wheelwell inside the door, a lot hidden in the front fenders - not the fender part, the inner fenders. Doors probably have some rust too. Just get some por 15 in the color of your choice and spread it on. Don't forget to peel up the carpet as all that sound deadening material rover put on there to make you think the truck is 'quiet' actually trapped ever molecule of moisture that ever went in the truck since the day it came off the build line.

Just wanted you to know what you're in for. FWIW, I LOVED my disco, and unfortunately sold it to someone local so my kids have to tell me 'daddy, we saw your truck, someone else was driving it'.
ROTFLMAO----------I can only think of one thing that has been missed.....If this unit sits in the sun for any amount of time you can expect the rubber that holds the windows in shrink, other than that....???? Oh, did anyone discuss burning up the foreward clutches on a hi reving emission test?

[jp-]

Thixon,

May Lucas shine dimly in your general direction... until such time when the magic smoke (binding all british electrical connections) is released.

{Shakes Voodoo doll}

[Terrys]

My brother runs the Burlington VT. yard for Auto Insurance Auctions. They have 160 yards across the country.

Right this minute they have 255 totaled Land Rover Discovery in inventory. Out of 255 trucks 13 of them are fires.

Yeah, they burn.

Well, there ya go. If you live in the Southeast you're safe. If you live in the NE or NW, take your extinguisher with you. Hey Jim, ask your brother how many D1 airbags didn't deploy.

[graniterover]

I friend of mine (actually his dad) had his DII go up in smoke and it wasn't running at the time. Electrical fire. Totalled.

[wooday]

would you purchase a discovery?


Never.

And not a Freelander either.

Ever.

[badvibes]

Donnie-

Freakin' awesome post! Can someone please write the Series II version?

Jeff

[kevin-ct]

When I worked for a Land Rover Dealer i saw new cars that came off the trucks burnt! the seat heater that didnt turn off and burnt a hole in the seat cover.

Kevin

[kevin-ct]

Jim, Any P38's


Kevin

[kevin-ct]

My brother runs the Burlington VT. yard for Auto Insurance Auctions. They have 160 yards across the country.

Right this minute they have 255 totaled Land Rover Discovery in inventory. Out of 255 trucks 13 of them are fires.

Yeah, they burn.


Jim, Can your brother hook me up with a medium rare discovery? ;)


Kevin[/quote]

[BDM]

Never.

And not a Freelander either.

Ever.

So I guess that means you wouldn't own an RRC then? :D

Nice Series III.

[BDM]

Saying you had a bad Subaru is the same as saying you had a good Disco! :p

Ha, yeah well I guess 90k is good for a transmission on a WRX. I was able to have some fun with my '02.

[Mercedesrover]

Jim, Can your brother hook me up with a medium rare discovery? ;)

Here's a list of the Discos they have right now (https://www.iaai.com/Vehicles/SearchResults.aspx?vehicleType=1&vehicleMake=LAND%20ROVER&vehicleModel=DISCOVERY&vehicleYears=1995-2009). 257 today.

They've got one Defender (https://www.iaai.com/Vehicles/SearchResults.aspx?vehicleType=1&vehicleMake=LAND%20ROVER&vehicleModel=DEFENDER&vehicleYears=1980-2008). Guess what, a fire!

[BDM]

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery_I/

I guess this guy's an idiot!

That's it I'm done...

[Mercedesrover]

I guess this guy's an idiot!

Man, a hit bird flutters, eh?

No, he's not an idiot at all. I know Scott and his experience. I even wrote an article for his magazine last year. I'm sure he'll build a capable and reliable truck. I'm also sure he'll change the cooler lines and a whole bunch of other stuff before he heads to the toolies. And I'm also sure he'll carry a bunch of spares with him. You'll also notice that's a 5-speed truck with no sunroofs.

The question was whether or not these are reliable trucks for Jeff's wife to use as a daily driver. The answer is probably not. That's no secret nor surprise. If you find a really nice one (as Scott did) and are prepared to throw a bunch of money at it, they'll do amazing things and take you to amazing places. That said, you still need to be prepared for troubles, and probably more so than in other marquees.

[SafeAirOne]

...I'm also sure he'll change the cooler lines and a whole bunch of other stuff... ...You'll also notice that's a 5-speed truck with no sunroofs.

Would a 5-speed have transmission cooler lines (or was it engine oil cooler lines)? It's been so long since I've owned a D1, I can't remember if it had an external engine oil cooler or not, and mine was an auto.


3 pages ago, I think that this thread originaly had somebody asking if a particular Discovery was worth buying or not. I say "If you like it and the price is right and you've done your homework, go for it!" Otherwise, the forum is clearly divided in two camps and forever will be. There is no correct answer, especially one that will satisfy everyone's opinion.

[sven]

Ive seen a D1 catch fire from a leaky power steering line. It pissed right on the exhaust manifold. Luckily he had a fire extinguisher and was fine. I suppose this could happen to any vehicle if you ignore replacing these lines.

My only advise is, if you HAVE to own a discovery, do not get a DII. More electronics and parts are more expensive.

[jp-]

How much for this one Jim?

https://www.iaai.com/Vehicles/VehicleDetails.aspx?auctionID=7070234&itemID=7479691&RowNumber=18

[I Leak Oil]

There are plenty of documented issues with D1's. I know the owner's manual that came with mine didn't list changing oil cooler, tranny or power steering lines as part of a regular maintenance schedule.
If I didn't already pick up an '88 RRC to punish myself with I'd consider a D1 because they are plentiful and inexpensive as far as up front cost. With that said, I would have no delusions about it being a low maintenance, potentially high operating cost vehicle.

To argue that, as a whole, they don't have serious design and build issues is just someone's emotional attachment talking. But then again these are emotion evoking vehicles....... I'd still rather drive a D1 than a Toyota!
As to the original question, Would I buy one for my wife's daily driver? No.
Jason T.

[SafeAirOne]

I'd still rather drive a D1 than a Toyota!

Ha! That's funny--We traded our D1 in on a Toyota 4-Runner. Same fuel economy, but MUCH better fit and finish. Either truck was fine for getting my wife to Wal-Mart, but the Toyota was just....better...for the sort of driving she does.

[Mercedesrover]

How much for this one Jim?

https://www.iaai.com/Vehicles/VehicleDetails.aspx?auctionID=7070234&itemID=7479691&RowNumber=18

Current bid is $3550 and it ends tonight at midnight.

Flood damage on an LR3. That sounds like fun!
There's a TON of flood stuff in Texas right now. Lots of cool farm equipment.

[BDM]

Man, a hit bird flutters, eh?

No, he's not an idiot at all. I know Scott and his experience. I even wrote an article for his magazine last year. I'm sure he'll build a capable and reliable truck. I'm also sure he'll change the cooler lines and a whole bunch of other stuff before he heads to the toolies. And I'm also sure he'll carry a bunch of spares with him. You'll also notice that's a 5-speed truck with no sunroofs.

The question was whether or not these are reliable trucks for Jeff's wife to use as a daily driver. The answer is probably not. That's no secret nor surprise. If you find a really nice one (as Scott did) and are prepared to throw a bunch of money at it, they'll do amazing things and take you to amazing places. That said, you still need to be prepared for troubles, and probably more so than in other marquees.

Agreed:cheers:

[I Leak Oil]

Ha! That's funny--We traded our D1 in on a Toyota 4-Runner. Same fuel economy, but MUCH better fit and finish. Either truck was fine for getting my wife to Wal-Mart, but the Toyota was just....better...for the sort of driving she does.

No contest between a D1 or 4-runner for the average joe. The 4-runner will run circles around it all day.

You know Mark, there was one of those "which is better LR or LC" on another site recently. All the toyota lovers kept extolling the virtues of toyota reliability. I agree that the average toy is a good machine but in a twist of irony I saw two of them on the side of the road as I was going home that day. The first one was the cause of a back up on I-395. Guess what? It was on fire! The second had the hood open with steam pouring out!
Toyota dealers have a parts and service department like every other manufacturer. It's a machine, it will break!
I just wish they would make a true mini truck again.
Jason T.

[yorker]

Current bid is $3550 and it ends tonight at midnight.

Flood damage on an LR3. That sounds like fun!
There's a TON of flood stuff in Texas right now. Lots of cool farm equipment.

I'd rather have the farm equipment.

[yorker]

Would a 5-speed have transmission cooler lines (or was it engine oil cooler lines)? It's been so long since I've owned a D1, I can't remember if it had an external engine oil cooler or not, and mine was an auto.



I think the R-380 has or can have an external oil cooler- I'm pretty sure it does on the Wolf 110s. Not real sure about on Discos.

[yorker]

I would expect that they burn because many of the people that bought them did not have a clue about service. If you maintain the oil and tranny cooler lines you should be fine. I have never heard of the fuel lines causing any trouble.



If you change the engine and transmission every 100,000 miles or so you'll probably get 300,000 miles out of one too! :thumb-up:

[chester rides again]

Thanks for all the replies. The vehicle that I'm looking for is for me - my wife is getting a 2009 Honda Pilot... She says she only wants a new car with no issues - and a new Honda is a pretty good vehicle.

So the question that I origionally posted was for me. I'm NOT a new vehicle guy - infact, I can't stand new vehicles for the most part. That's why I got the '68 Rover. I love the look of true examples of a manufacturer - such as the Saab 900, Land Rover Disco/Range Rover/Defender, Porsche 911, BMW's and Mercedes from the 80's and early 90's and the brick-shaped Volvo's. Those are what I consider classic cars and that is what I'm ultimately looking for.

Add to that the requirement that I need to be able to carry a few extra people from time to time, live right next to Canada, and don't want to spend over $10,000 ($5,000 or less would be even better). That's why I was considering the Disco. BUT there have been enough comments here to make me rethink my future purchase. I need something that is moderately reliable.

Since my last post, I've continued to do research on this issue and a vehicle that has caught my eye is the Mercedes 300TE with 4matic and 3rd row seating. Specifically the W124 model - made thru 1995. I'm reading that it's the most over-engineered Mercedes made. I'm sure that it's not cheap to fix, but it does address many of my concerns such as safety, reliability, 4wd, abaility to carry more than 4 people, classic look, inexpensive to purchase, and comfortable.

I've not eliminated the Disco, but there seems to just be enough negatives out there to make me reconsider.

Now if the 300TE only had a manual transmission...

Thanks again, hope I didn't stir the pot up too much, but all the responses were greatly appreciated.

Jeff

[Mercedesrover]

Change the "E" to a "D" and you've got yourself a real classic!

http://www.desmoparts.com/assets/vehicles/mercedes/300td/19m.jpg

[I Leak Oil]

Jeff,
I really think you've discovered (no pun intended) the point of this type of discussion. They are to make you think and inform you, not tell you what to do. If there was only one right vehicle we'd all be driving the same thing. Sounds like you have or had a nice variety of vehicles through the years!
Jason T.

[griswald]

Jeff (Chester)

If I were you, I would stay FAR AWAY from the 300te 4Matic. Almost everyone I ever knew who had one had trouble with the 4matic.

I owned for 6 years a 1985 300td wagon. Was the best (and most reliable) car I ever owned.

That would be my choice. It is tight with small dog, 2 kids and wife though...

Griswald

[Les Parker]

I think this thread has reached and passed its climax.

Please start a new one, if there is to be anymore useful input.