Fuel pump

[Pete]

My fuel pump has seen it's last day. Can anyone give me any insight on switching over to a electric pump? Pro's/con's....if you are running one, do you have a part #? I have a 1969 SIIA 2.25ltr.

Thanks, Pete

[CliftonRover]

I keep an electric as a spare because the new genuine pumps I buy do not instill a lot of faith in me. I have had them go bad a few times. I would recomend wiring the pump on its own switch so that if you want the ignition on but not the pump you won't sit there stressing the pump. the electric pumps work great I would not recommend anything more than 7 or 8 psi rated to protect the carb seals. I would also kep an extra electric pump though.

[gudjeon]

I have always run an electric pump on my series rigs. I had a mechanical set up and when I bought a new one to replace, it was duff too. I currently use a NAPA one made for carburetted engines. I use a recirculating fuel filter system so I do not get hard starting when hot and no vapour lock. Fuel is constantly being filtered as a bonus.

[alaskajosh]

I use a recirculating fuel filter system so I do not get hard starting when hot and no vapour lock. Fuel is constantly being filtered as a bonus.

Interesting. Can you describe this system? Or could I just ask (the high school drop-out, know nothing punks at my) Napa about it?

Oh and to stay on subject, I intend to add an electric pump as back up to my mechanical. It's going on a switch, though, so I can turn it on as/when needed. I was looking at a "Facet Posi-flo" NAPA #610-1050, 4-7psi, ~$60.

Thank you! Josh

[gudjeon]

Fuel pump is mounted in RH footwell inside the engine bay. Filter is just an 80's chrysler spec for any v8. I do not have the pump # on hand but it was the lowest pressure one I could find for carburated engines.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/gudjeon/fuelpump1.jpg
I know the air horn looks goofy, but there is limited headroom for a 2.25 in a ser1.
I made a bypass using brakeline tubing soldered to a fabricated flange. Its not the prettiest, but works like a charm.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/gudjeon/fuelpump4.jpg

[badvibes]

Oh and to stay on subject, I intend to add an electric pump as back up to my mechanical. It's going on a switch, though, so I can turn it on as/when needed. I was looking at a "Facet Posi-flo" NAPA #610-1050, 4-7psi, ~$60.

Thank you! Josh[/quote]

I run the POSI-FLO #610-1051 from NAPA. It's rated 1.5 to 4 psi. I run a Rochester carb on my 2.25 and it seems to work well. I was surprised how little pressure the Rochester requires. What type of carb are you running and what does it need?


Jeff

[alaskajosh]

I run the POSI-FLO #610-1051 from NAPA. It's rated 1.5 to 4 psi. I run a Rochester carb on my 2.25 and it seems to work well. I was surprised how little pressure the Rochester requires. What type of carb are you running and what does it need?


Jeff

Uh.. to be honest I had also considered getting the 1.5-4psi. I hadn't really done the research yet. Mine's a 3.0l Mercruiser thing with a Weber 32 or 36 somethin'. Whether or not it needs more than the 1.5-4...??

Gudjeon: Specifically the recirculating filter part, is that a return line off the filter? And the carb just takes what it needs and any extra goes back the return line to the tank?

Kind regards, Josh

[badvibes]

Josh-

This is from the Weber site:

A Proper Electric Fuel pump will give the best performance and most stable tuning for any Weber carb application. We use only High Volme and Low Pressure pumps. Webers work best at approx 4 psi of fuel pressure (Not 2 psi like many of the older books stated.) and you need Volume not Pressure to keep the float bowl full.

Here's a link:

http://www.racetep.com/weber.html

Looks like there's some good Weber info on the tech pages.

Jeff

[Pete]

I'm running a Weber carb.....32?? I will have to check the numbers. Looks like maybe around 4psi according the last posted Weber website. Sounds like running from a separate switch is best....would you recommend running your hot power into a fused line to the switch and directly to the pump?

Thanks for everyones input.
Pete

[I Leak Oil]

If you put in an electric pump I'd recommend a pressure regulator to go with it. Also, tie it into the oil pressure idiot light. That way in case you have an accident, the pump won't continue to pump fuel provided the engine cuts out. Napa has the parts to make this happen but I'm sure they can be sourced elsewhere. A switch is OK but in an accident you're not alway coherent enought to remember to shut the fuel pump off.
Jason T.

[Jeff Aronson]

I've put over 500,000 miles on my II-A in 19 years and have had 1 mechanical fuel pump failure using a Genuine pump; I have an RN Proline fuel pump in mine now.

When the pump failed, I was in NH on a -20 F morning. A friend who is a mechanic carries with him a generic electric pump with two long wires, both with alligator clips at the end, and long rubber hoses with press on clamps at each end. We disconnected the fuel line into the failed pump, clamped the rubber lines, and connected the wires to the battery. The pump had a magnetic holder around it so it could rest against the steel bulkhead. The car started up and we drove to his garage. I had Rovers North mail out a new pump and I was on my way the next day.

Now, of course, I just carry a spare fuel pump with me. They're not that hard to install in the field or on the road.

Jeff

[Donnie]

Interesting. Can you describe this system? Or could I just ask (the high school drop-out, know nothing punks at my) Napa about it?

Oh and to stay on subject, I intend to add an electric pump as back up to my mechanical. It's going on a switch, though, so I can turn it on as/when needed. I was looking at a "Facet Posi-flo" NAPA #610-1050, 4-7psi, ~$60.

Thank you! Josh
That pump is good, but the price seems a little hi, I pd. about $40 bux a couple months ago

[alaskajosh]

That pump is good, but the price seems a little hi, I pd. about $40 bux a couple months ago

That $60 price was in Alaskan dollars.

Kind regards, Josh

[alaskajosh]

Amending to add that Weber's site specifically recommends avoiding the Facet pump. They describe it as "terrible".

The want to see me go with a Carter 4070.

Kind regards, Josh

[graniterover]

I have the Facet and a Weber and it's great. It does have this odd habit of knocking really, really loud when it's very hot out.


Amending to add that Weber's site specifically recommends avoiding the Facet pump. They describe it as "terrible".

The want to see me go with a Carter 4070.

Kind regards, Josh

[msggunny]

Amending to add that Weber's site specifically recommends avoiding the Facet pump. They describe it as "terrible".

The want to see me go with a Carter 4070.

Kind regards, Josh

I am prety sure that i am running the same pump with my 32/36 set up, its the one that the Webber people reccomended. The shop that instaled it made a bracket to block off the man pump on the engine block and they mounted the elect pump on it.

Works quite well, i have a cut off switch for security and when i want the igniton on but dont want to run the pump. I am going to look into the emergency cut off switch as mentioned above in case of an accident.

[scott]

gunny

i've a 32/36 and looking to upgrade from cheap electric to a carter electric. do you know the differences between the 4070 and the 4594? also going to put in a fuel return. do you vent back to your tank?

[alaskajosh]

I am prety sure that i am running the same pump with my 32/36 set up, its the one that the Webber people reccomended. The shop that instaled it made a bracket to block off the man pump on the engine block and they mounted the elect pump on it.

Works quite well, i have a cut off switch for security and when i want the igniton on but dont want to run the pump. I am going to look into the emergency cut off switch as mentioned above in case of an accident.

Someone told me that EFP's prefer to "push" rather than "pull" but apparently yours is doing a fine job of pulling.

I was planning to run mine in addition to the mechanical pump just as back up in case of mechanical failure or vapor lock. It would be on a switch and probably spend most of the time turned off. I hope there's no problem pulling fuel through a shut off EFP or pushing fuel through a dead MFP..??

I'm using a relay to turn it on with the ignition/coil so as not to have another load running through the key switch.

Check out a Hobbs switch for low pressure cut-off. NAPA #701-1575 is N.O. and closes at 4psi. Just "T" off alongside your oil pressure idiot light sender. $31 in Alaskan dollars.

What's the purpose of the fuel return?

Still have an air filter box you'd be willing to let go, gunny?

Kind regards, Josh

[scott]

i believe allowing fuel to return (recycle) will keep fuel line pressure from exceeding the efp settings, ie: efp set a 7 psi stops when back pressure hits 7 psi, heat arround fuel line continues to expand fuel, pressure goes up and vapor lock can occur. recycling the excess fuel keeps pressure at the pump's setting and allows fuel to cool when it returns to the tank. from what i've read the carter 4070 runs between 4-6 psi the carter 4594 6-8 psi. i'm running w/a weber 32/36 dgv and they like 4 psi but their needle valve can handle 15 psi so no regulator is needed.

am i right/wrong in my understanding? any weber experts out there? and anyone out there runing in the desert heat having/had heat related fuel delivery issues that a carter electric and return line has fixed?

[gudjeon]

The purpose of the fuel return is to keep a constant supply at the ready for the demand of the carb. Of course, it does not need the full volume of the pump's output all the time. The electric pump stays cooler with constant flow. There is no pressure left on the needle and seat once it is shut off. Also, the small return line outlet of the bypass filter has a small orifice so that the pump can build up some pressure, but not too much as be be easier on the float valve ass'y. The specs for the original mechanical pump call for lower pressures than most carb'd electric pumps, so I used it to err on the cautious side of things.

The return line can be seen on my second pic on the first page of the thread. It is very low tech. I made a mounting flange, drilled three holes, bent brake tubing, and soldered it to the flange. The tube goes most of the way to the bottom of the tank.

The return system is a bit like the diaphragm carb system used on small engines and old snomobiles. It supplies a constant volume of fuel and the carb sips off what it needs. The excess that it doesn't use goes back to the tank.

This is my take on it and take from it what you will. I have had too many frustrations with mechanical pumps to go back. Electric ones have been used on cars now for many years and still work going to the scrapheap pile after several hundred thousand miles. Besides, I can go to any local autoparts place/junkyard and get another.

[SafeAirOne]

I hope there's no problem pulling fuel through a shut off EFP or pushing fuel through a dead MFP..??

I'm using a relay to turn it on with the ignition/coil so as not to have another load running through the key switch.

My former 6-cylinder 109 has the factory-installed electric fuel pump (now disconnected) still plumbed into the fuel delivery system. I've been running it with the mechanical fuel pump sucking fuel through the unused electric pump for years with no problems.

The electric pump (was) wired off the white (+) primary coil circuit sans relay.