conversion of 88" series II to non-landrover chassis

[dulinm]

Hello, I'm editing my original text that was asking advice on possibly creating a bastard-child out of my 71 Series II (88" wheel base) by putting the body on another frame, with a different engine/drivetrane. Most of the advice steered me away from this plan and suggested I inspect the frame because if it's good...cheaper to put in a different engine, etc. The best "DON'T DO IT" said that my proposed "hybrid bastard scheme would become a constant engineering/wrenching/ass -scratching/more wrenching/wishing"........so..........got to go back to plan A. Thanks for the 20 replies and good advice, Mark

[scott]

i'd think putting some other motor & drive line would be easier/cheaper than a body swap

[Leslie]

My suggestions would be:

A) engine swap to something else, keeping the chassis (or is the chassis in bad shape?). There are other engine conversions out there. Merecedes diesels, Isuzu diesels, GM engines, etc.


B) if the chassis is in bad shape and in need of replacement, you could use a Range Rover Classic or a Discovery, shorten the wheelbase down (or, keep the wheelbase and stretch the tub), add outriggers for the bulkhead, tub, etc., put the rear crossmember onto the coiler chassis..... that way, you've gained the V8, coil suspension and disc brakes, but you'd have a typical Rover hybrid (check the Hybrid board here on the RN boards).

[Eric W S]

Have you done the math yet? Is it really going to be cheaper to buy a rolling chassis AND pay to have someone swap it for you?

I would say get online and find a good used engine and leave well enough alone.

[Woodslug]

You will be cutting way back on your resale value doing this. I have seen several bastardized Rovers for sale and nobody wants them.

Ted

[I Leak Oil]

Replacing the diesel will be far less expensive than doing what you're proposing. Why do you think your mechanic is willing to take on such a project? Probably becuase it's a cash cow for him.
If you want to keep the truck I'd recommend finding another 2.25 diesel or a 2.25 gasser can be had for short money.
To answer your question though, I don't know of any other vehicle that is a good or inexpensive fit.
Jason T.

[daveb]

Hello, I'm not mechanically inclined

Hi

If you are not mechanically inclined, do not modify from stock. End of story.

ok you can install upgrades using other LR parts like dual circuit brakes or a petrol engine. etc etc but the kind of hybrid bastard scheme you are talking about will become a constant engineering/wrenching/ass-scratching/more wrenching/wishing-you-were-more-mechanically-inclined kind of experience.

Don't do it.

[Terrys]

Mechanically inclined or not, you're out of your mind if you think any sort of chassis/hybrid swap is a good idea. You will forever have a morphed truck that no one else will want. There are plenty of 2.25 petrol engines out there that will simply bolt right in with NO modifiction. You can buy a new one from Rovers north for way less than any sort of butcher chassis swap.

[leafsprung]

Many people automatically assume that every swap is a "butcher job" This is not true but there are SO MANY bad ones out there it gives the good ones a bad name. How talented is your mechanic? Has he done this sort of custom work before? My guess is that he has not. Doing it nicely will cost more than the engine work. Scratch building a chassis or making a new drivetrain and suspension fit the existing frame are much better routes to a clean result.

[Donnie]

i'd think putting some other motor & drive line would be easier/cheaper than a body swap
I guess it would depend on if your frame is GOOD, or not I have a 109 that I am going to put on something...It is a 109 LHD, with an 88 top.. It has a little bed in the rear, you could probably haul a refrigerator standing up in the bed....The engine has beeb converted to a 304 ford, wirh stock rover gear boxes...This was a fun truch to drive when it had a frame,,, I guess we need to get out the tape measure..........Donnie

[Donnie]

I can do the work myself, it is typing that I seem to be at a loss for tonite...I had no plans of being a secretary when I grew up...1 finger Donnie:D

[Jeff Aronson]

You don't identify where you are located, but I find it hard to believe that a mechanic, charging a reasonable rate, would fiind it more cost efficient to modify an existing chassis/drivetrain and swap out a bulkhead and body, and rig up brakes, wiring, fuel delivery, suspension, for less money that it would cost you to purchase a new and/or used frame and used Land Rover components.

Help us help you; first, where are you located?

Jeff

[Terrys]

Nowhere did the guy say he had a bad frame, just a bad engine. I have never seen a good Land Rover body transplant to some other truck frame so, Ike, maybe you could show me what it looks like, since you seem to be singling me out by paraphrasing me. But then, I've only been playing with them for 37 years so what do I know.

[leafsprung]

Im sure if you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist. :rolleyes:

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/toyrover.jpg

This one is just a home built someone sent me pictures of. I think it has a mini-truck chassis and running gear. Im guessing it has some "non professional" touches, but it looks like a worthy vehicle that would serve its owner well. Its not any different than every series truck on a RR chassis build out there. Im sure you've seen those (if you havent check out "A 4x4 is born"). There is a semi local rover owner currently doing a scratch built chassis with toyota running gear. He is a nice guy and a pretty talented fabricator. Im confident his build will turn out nicely You can follow his build at:

http://seriesiiirover.blogspot.com/


There are also dozens more great trucks running scratch built chassis with non land rover drivetrains or heavily modified rover chassis with various drivetrains.

Here are a few:

http://pangolin4x4.com/jl6bt.jpg

http://image.automotive.com/f/features/rover/8308433+w440/0611_4wd_11_z+1957_land_rover+rock_crawl.jpg

http://pangolin4x4.com/franklinone.jpg

If you want more pictures of drivetrain conversions, feel free to drop me a PM, I have piles. Dont get me wrong, I dont think this guy should tackle this project, its clear he (and his mechanic more than likely) have no idea what they are in for. But its been done successfully to a reasonable standard many many times.

“The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all.” - Harry Truman

[scott]

leaf,

glad you posted this. i'm of the thought that the best way to improve a heep or a yoda is to make 'em look like a rov. i like running my mostly original series. got nothing against those that build hybrids. and for those who warn that they have no resale or that you just end up with a money pit and waist a retorable rov, well i say so what. for every one of these projects that fail my 88 beomes one more truck rarer.

so to anyone doing this i say do what you want. i pesonally (cuz i'm cheap) would just build another 2.25 and keep it simple. but if i owned a yoda pick-up or 4runner that ran but the body trashed and a 109 w/a rotted frame and a cracked 2.25, i'd move the aluminum to the yoda

[I Leak Oil]

There are certainly some technically sound conversions out there, some even done by owners and/or non-professionals. If you personally like it or dislike it is a matter of opinion. I think the crux of the conversation is if there is another vehicle that a series body would fit on easily and inexpensively. I personally think the answer is no.
Jason T.

[leafsprung]

I think the crux of the conversation is if there is another vehicle that a series body would fit on easily and inexpensively. I personally think the answer is no.

I guess it depends on your idea of ease and cost. There is certainly nothing expensive about such a project UNLESS you have to pay someone else to do it. There is also nothing really difficult about it either provided you can run a tape measure and a welder. In this case, for this guy, it doesnt make sense. But for someone else with the inclination, it shouldnt be that expensive or difficult just time consuming.

[I Leak Oil]

Agreed Ike.
Jason T.

[SafeAirOne]

I find it hard to believe that it would make more economic sense to swap a whole rover body onto another vehicle than to replace the engine with a decent take-out engine.

Even if your mechanic worked for free, I think you'd spend more. It's not just bolting the body up to a bunch of tabs you've welded onto a jeep chassis--Now you've got to deal with making the front wheels turn when the steering wheel moves, getting a fuel tank to fit and plumb up to the filler costs money, etc. It's always the little bits that add up to giant wodges of cash that people don't consider.

[Terrys]

Im sure if you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist. :rolleyes:
I know that was a tongue-in-cheek remark, with no malice intended, and I'm amused, if not flattered that someone with your talent, and obvious experience seems to disagree with me so often. I have no doubt that there are plenty of good quality transplants out there, done with a high degree of skill. There was a series truck that showed up at the Metal Dash meet a year or two back, something like a stretched 130. It was essentially, going from memory, an F series Ford with enough Rover sheet metal to fill the gap between front and rear bumper. It was obvious to see that it was done with a thorough knowledge of fabrication and construction. In the end though, was it a Land Rover, or only a Ford, that resembled a Land Rover.
My only comment with regard to doing such a major transplant of an 88 to another unrelated vehicle chassis and drivetrain is that the original poster made no reference whatever to a failing drivetrain or chassis, just that he had a cracked block. If I went to the doctor complaining of constant headaches, I think I'd want another opinion if his only reccomendation was a *** change operation. Undeniably, there are some great Toyota axle swaps that make sense, and a host of nice, alternative engines out there too. I personally love the 4BT engine, and KevinNY's Isuzu powered 88 is an excellent example of using something other than LR. Nonetheless, the original poster sounded as though he might have been misled as to the ease or economy of an entire backbone swap, when I felt he had many easier and less costly options. Thanks for the pictures though.

[leafsprung]

Terrys,
No question that the swap is not a good idea for this person. I wouldnt recommend it to anyone. The only thing I disagreed with was your assertion that no good swaps have ever been done. The discussion of whether it is still a "land rover" does not interest me. If it serves its owners needs and is well made, I can appreciate it.

[daveb]

In the end though, was it a Land Rover, or only a Ford, that resembled a Land Rover.

Was it noisy? Did it leak? Then it may have been a Land Rover...


If I went to the doctor complaining of constant headaches, I think I'd want another opinion if his only reccomendation was a *** change operation.

Well, perhaps this doctor was just telling the patient what he wanted to hear. :) Or maybe the constant headaches were caused by the Land Rover...

[dulinm]

Wow, I never expected 20 replies. Thanks for the advice. I'll talk to the mechanic and re-think this whole thing. I'll also check the hybrid board---it would be nice to keep it all Landrover. I'm going to delete my question in a couple days --no since upsetting more folks by them hearing from someone toying with the idea of butchering an old Series II. I also need to have him put it on a lift and see the condition of the frame. It could be narly and that also spells $$. Anyway, thanks again for all the help, Mark

[Leslie]

No need to delete; good discussion for people to stumble across.

If chassis is good, swap in an engine. If the chassis is toast, swap the body onto a RRC or a Disco....

Good luck....