Stranded on Day 2

[navydevildoc]

Well, picked up my '65 IIA on Friday, and decided to go for a spin today just a few miles down the road to the auto supply store. Had fun going down the road, still getting used to a RHD truck.

On the way back, I started noting a very sharp loss of power when I pressed down on the accelerator pedal. She idles fine, but as soon as I try to give her gas, she bogs down or dies. Ended up getting stuck in a parking lot about half a mile from home, and a buddy of mine was nice enough to come over and tow me back home with his Dodge truck. Needless to say, there was lots of Land Rover jokes along the way.

I have a feeling it's a fuel delivery problem either to the carb or in the carb, but since I have never worked on a Series before, and don't yet have the Big Green Book to help me out, I am kind of mystified on how to check the fuel filter. I see the bowl on the fuel pump, and it looks like it's full of gas, but I am really not sure where to start.

I warned you all you would be faced with dumb questions! Any advice would be helpful. She has an original Solex carb.

[scott]

the old pick up tubes in the tank are notorious for cloging. was the sed bowl on the pump less than full?

[Cosmic88]

The exact same thing happened to me today. Thankfully I was able to sputter home to the workshop. Since I have a new fuel tank and carb gaskets on the way (from our host) I decided to to "It all" today. Removed the carb (mine is the Zenith 36)and completely cleaned it and checked jets for any blockage. Removed dist. cap and checked / cleaned points, pulled out old gas tank and flushed all fuel lines and sediment bowl.

Just another Saturday...

I'd start at the fuel tank then on to the pump / filter and if those are fine and working move onto the carb.

[navydevildoc]

Sed bowl looked totally full... but I can't see it by myself if I hit the gas to see what happens.

Since the history on this truck is hazy, I don't know when the last time any of this stuff was serviced. So I am not ruling anything out.

I am gonna go with Cosmic's advice and start at the tank and work downstream. Looks like I can pull up the plate on the drivers seat and get to the pick-up tube on the tank and check that out first.

The carb probably needs a good servicing anyway, I will have to order a rebuild kit from RN this week, gives me something for next weekend.

[jcasteel]

Mine will have those exact symptoms when one of the jets in the carb is clogged. I have the Solex carb. After the second time this happened I put an inline fuel filter on and it has been trouble free ever since.

Since you don't know all that much about your rover I'd start at the fuel tank too but just because you find a clogged pick up tube don't stop looking.

Amazing how much junk can make it all the way to the carb.

[LaneRover]

My brother had a similar thing happen. In the end for him it was the fact that the fuel pump was so full of crap that it wouldn't release enough to go through the pumping cycle.

[ktom300]

Mine did something similar and it was the points/condensor. Of course I started with a carb rebuild and check for fuel problems first.

[msggunny]

Doc, who were you with in your avatar pic?

Guess the MG didnt teach you how to properly carry a sabot round...

[navydevildoc]

Doc, who were you with in your avatar pic?

Guess the MG didnt teach you how to properly carry a sabot round...

That would be out in 29 with A Co, 4th Tanks... that was actually my one "glamour shot" before we went back to transferring rounds from the field ASP on range 500 to whatever tank happened to be right there headed out to do one of the tables.

PM sent about the MG.

[navydevildoc]

So, I pulled open the tank and looked at the pickup tube. The wire mesh screen around the bottom had pretty much been torn up and disintegrated to be of any use. So, rather than have more of it fall in to the tank, i just pulled it off and left the pickup tube bare.

Now on to my next dumb question... is there another fuel filter other than the pickup screen? I am looking at the fuel line that goes right into the sed bowl/fuel pump assembly, which doesn't seem to have a filter in it anywhere, and on to the carb, with no inline filter.

If there isn't anything besides the pickup screen, I think it's pretty safe to say the carb is gunked with something. If there is another filter somewhere, I just need to find it.

[scott]

original fuel filtering system was just that pick up tube screen and the sedimentation bowl. pretty primative heh. my screen is gone, i've a inline before the electric pump, not using the sed bowl and mechanical, then another filter just before the carb.

[Jeff Aronson]

The Solex carb has a small cylindrical filter. lying on its side, inside the feed line to the float chamber. The Weber carb has a similar filter but it stands upright, and it's accessed by removing the 3/4" brass nut at the bottom on the entry tube into the carb float chamber.

There is a screen at the top of the sediment bowl of the fuel pump, too.

However, it's advisable to install a conventional inline fuel filter - just cut the rubber fuel line and use the clamps provided with the filter.

Jeff

[Jeff Aronson]

The Solex carb has a small cylindrical filter. lying on its side, inside the feed line to the float chamber. The Weber carb has a similar filter but it stands upright, and it's accessed by removing the 3/4" brass nut at the bottom on the entry tube into the carb float chamber.

There is a screen at the top of the sediment bowl of the fuel pump, too.

However, it's advisable to install a conventional inline fuel filter - just cut the rubber fuel line and use the clamps provided with the filter.

Jeff

[navydevildoc]

Well, after spending all freaking day tearing the carb apart, cleaning it all up and making it look pretty, I go to put it back in and it turns out the fuel inlet on top of the bowl is stripped out.

I had some choice words right as I realized what happened. Looking at the threads, I wonder if there already wasn't a problem, and me putting it snug was the last straw.

So, now I have a completely spotless, completely useless solex.

I guess it's time to order the Weber, which I had been considering anyway.

(sigh)... welcome to series ownership.

[greenmeanie]

What thread is on the fuel fitting. I bet you could retap it with a standard NPT tap and hose barb available from any loca hardware store.

[bmohan55]

Guess Saturday was the day for fuel problems, mine died also. After manually worrking the fuel pump I got it going again and it ran fine back home. Turns out the fuel line from the tank to the pump was falling apart and not only "bleeding" bits of rubber into the system but also sucking in air! Another new in-line filter, clean out the sediment bowl and I'm go until.....

[navydevildoc]

What thread is on the fuel fitting. I bet you could retap it with a standard NPT tap and hose barb available from any loca hardware store.

Dunno... the problem is that the threads that stripped are on the inside of the solex on top of the bowl... so I would have to find a way to re-thread those, then find some kind of fitting to go from that rather large hole to something that the fuel line can connect to.

Let me look for a picture of what I am talking about... I'll post it in a second.

[navydevildoc]

Here is a picture with a red box around the threads I am talking about... where the fuel inlet "fitting" goes into the carb.

[greenmeanie]

You may have to lose the banjo fitting and the hard plasdtic fuel line but by the eyeball gauge you should be able to tap that with a 1/4 NPT and use a male NPT to hose barb fitting. It'll be cheaper than a new carb.

[navydevildoc]

You may have to lose the banjo fitting and the hard plasdtic fuel line but by the eyeball gauge you should be able to tap that with a 1/4 NPT and use a male NPT to hose barb fitting. It'll be cheaper than a new carb.

Ahhh... I see what you are getting at. I might stop at Marshall's (huge hardware store here local) and see what they have.

[scott]

doc i've got half a dozen of those carbs. might be able to hook you up. i use a weber 32/36 dgv and will never be mess'n with em.

[navydevildoc]

doc i've got half a dozen of those carbs. might be able to hook you up. i use a weber 32/36 dgv and will never be mess'n with em.

Any particular reason you went with the DGV instead of a single barrel 34ICH?

[scott]

it was on the bugger when i bought it

[navydevildoc]

OK... so I basically need to decide if I want to keep the Solex or jump to something else.

It would seem that the Solex carb has part availability problems, other than scrounging up used ones sitting in peoples garages/sheds/basements. But it seems to work as good as any other carb as long as you keep it clean, and I already have one.

The weber is new, but has a hefty price tag since I have to buy the inexplicably expensive adapter block to put underneath it. But on the other hand I was going to replace the carb eventually anyway as part of my restoration. So instead of doing it later I am doing it sooner.

The third option, which I am not really considering, is the Zenith. Even though they were stock it seems like people have problems with them. With the Weber available, it just doesn't seem like a smart choice.

Does that sound about right to everyone? Am I missing some big piece of the puzzle here?

[scott]

i like the weber 2brl. some say it doesn't work well on the 2.25 but my only problem has been vapor lock which i'm addressing with a carter electric pump, a fuel return line and a remotely located air filter. when running my truck hauls bauls compared to my budy's with his rochester single brl.

the adapter and carb are one time exspences, which i got lucky and didn't have cuz my truck came with the weber.

webers 2brls have been used by auto manufacters and modifiers on just about every make and model. i feel it been test and has passed.

[Tim Smith]

Does that sound about right to everyone? Am I missing some big piece of the puzzle here?Well you could always just get a Dodge and quit having all this fun. :D

I think you've got it though.

[bmohan55]

You are forgetting the rochester carb

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/landRoverFAQ/FAQ_rochester.htm

[59rover]

The only other filter is the screen in the fuel pump. Sediment is a problem. My solex carb is on the work bench with that issue, prob. finish it tomorrow. jim

[Jeff Aronson]

I've got to put a pitch in for the single barrel Weber. One of my II-A's came with the Weber at 111,000 miles. The car now has over 500,000 miles on it. In that time and 18 years of ownership, I've used a Weber carb exclusively.

In that mileage, I've changed out the carb twice and completed one repair - an accelerator pump. The carb that was swapped out was actually good enough to keep as a "spare."

The Weber can be a little lean if you're not careful with the timing and idle mixture, and I find that dry gas helps in winter because of occasional icing - but that's it. I can't remember the last time I had to adjust anything on it, and it's easy to access the filter.

My other II-A has its original Solex, which does seem to have a lot more rubber bits in it that require occasional replacement. The Solex seems to give that Rover more acceleration, but it does not achieve as good mileage as the one with the Weber. Solex gasket kits are still available, but when I broke a metal part, I had to dig out an old Solex to find the part.

The Zenith is an adequate replacement carb [there are plenty out there on a lot of Rovers] but I am a huge fan of the Weber and I recommend it highly.

Jeff

[navydevildoc]

Well, I decided to go with the 32/36 DGV for now... we will see what happens. Should be here sometime this week along with the adapter block. If it doesn't work out, I will look at getting a single barrel Weber.

[msggunny]

Well, I decided to go with the 32/36 DGV for now... we will see what happens. Should be here sometime this week along with the adapter block. If it doesn't work out, I will look at getting a single barrel Weber.

O it will work, but you need to buy a jet kit for it. It will most likely run way too rich.

I have tried several times to jet mine down and even with a 2.5L cam, electronic ignition, 8:1 head, elect fan, header, and flowmaster it still runs a tad rich.

Just FYI.

It will work fine, but if you have the rest of the engine stock it will run rich.

[navydevildoc]

What jets do you have in yours right now? I am looking around online and the 4 cylinder kit comes with 145/150/155 mains, 65/70/75 idles, and 160/180/190 air correctors.

[navydevildoc]

Well, turns out that the Weber 32/36 DGV is backordered "At Least A Month" according to the guys at Weber.

To be honest, I was having second thoughts about the 32/36 after hearing all the stories of the jets just not ever getting set right.

So I am back to square one. Do I go with a 34ICH from Rovers North? That's the way I am leaning now.

The other viable option is maybe getting a Rochester B.

Comments from the crowd?

[greenmeanie]

You might find this link from TeriAnn on the Rochester (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/landRoverFAQ/FAQ_rochester.htm) interesting. I've run one for the last 9 years with a minor foray into a 34ICH. The Rochester is about the most fearsomely simple carb you can buy. It also has the advantage that you can get them at NAPA and overhaul kits are <$15 and available from any parts shop. If buying from NAPA all you need to do is file the mounting holes in the base to be a little wider.

I think the 34ICH is a little more economical on fuel but you have to also buy an adapter and modify your throttle linkage. Once jetted properly it was not a bad little unit.

As at some point you will ask, a good recipe for getting whatever power gains are available from a 2.25 is:
- 8:1 or slightly higher compression head. This is only really worth doing if you need to do a valve job or something like that too. There are gains here but they are not earth shattering.
- Rochester B or Weber 32/36 carb.
- 2.5L or Diesel cam.
- Electronic ignition from the likes of Pertronix, high output coil, remove the ballast resistor and get a good set of leads like Magnecor which results in a good, strong and reliable spark.
- If you are really running it as a road vehicle a K&N is a bit less restrictive but if you are going in the dirt stick with the oil bath.

I suppose I ought to say that the short answer is I would buy the Rochester.

[jp-]

Rochester is not a bad carb. I've rebuilt a few on some old chevy's. Very simple as Green states.

It wasn't until the 80's that the Rochesters became overly complex little bastards to work on.

[navydevildoc]

Called up our hosts at Rovers North today, they said the 34ICH they sell is already jetted correctly and can just bolt on, with the required adapter plate since I had a Solex.

When I leave work today I will go talk to Napa and Kragen, since neither of them list the Rochester B as available on line. The local Napa warehouse actually has some knowledgeable people in it, they may be able to find it.

[greenmeanie]

If dealing with the standard parts places it helps to have a vehicle specc'd out so that they can look it up on the computer. Most counter guys are not good if you walk in and talk about a Rochester B series. Tell the it is a 1953 GMC with a 216 and their computer will talk to them and you'll get much further. TeriAnn's link has the info you need.

[navydevildoc]

Well, went to the Napa distribution center last night, talked with one of the counter guys for quite some time.

Thanks to Teriann's excellent source of information on her web site, we really had no problem finding the Carb in the computer. Came right up as a '53 Chevy Truck. The problem is that they don't have them any more. He had pages of parts and rebuild kits, probably enough to where I could build one from scratch, but no completed units.

Same at the Kragen down the street. No joy. Same with the internet, I was only able to find one web site that mentioned that they might have them in stock (no guarantees).

So I said enough is enough and I called up Rovers North this morning, talked to Eric, and I have a 34ICH on the way along with a new Big Green Bible. Since I really wanted to have it running this weekend I even splurged on overnight shipping.

We'll see how it goes...

[schultp]

Well, went to the Napa distribution center last night, talked with one of the counter guys for quite some time.

Thanks to Teriann's excellent source of information on her web site, we really had no problem finding the Carb in the computer. Came right up as a '53 Chevy Truck. The problem is that they don't have them any more. He had pages of parts and rebuild kits, probably enough to where I could build one from scratch, but no completed units.

Same at the Kragen down the street. No joy. Same with the internet, I was only able to find one web site that mentioned that they might have them in stock (no guarantees).

So I said enough is enough and I called up Rovers North this morning, talked to Eric, and I have a 34ICH on the way along with a new Big Green Bible. Since I really wanted to have it running this weekend I even splurged on overnight shipping.

We'll see how it goes...

Any update on the carb issue? I wish I had read this earlier. You can buy Rochester Model B carbs for cheap on ebay if you are patient. They usually need rebuild but the kits are cheap. Mine was a total of $40 including rebuild and has been working great for 4 years.

They are notorious to "weep" from the gasket between the top and the lower bowl sections.

Paul.

[Cosmic88]

Any update on the carb issue? I wish I had read this earlier. You can buy Rochester Model B carbs for cheap on ebay if you are patient. They usually need rebuild but the kits are cheap. Mine was a total of $40 including rebuild and has been working great for 4 years.

They are notorious to "weep" from the gasket between the top and the lower bowl sections.

Paul.

The best way to cure that 'weeping' is to either find yourself (the hard way) a completely TRUE (Perfectly flat) block of aluminum or steel or (easy way) a 1/4" to 1/2" thick piece of glass. Lightly wet the surface with water or oil and lay down a sheet of wet / dry sandpaper. 440 is good to start with then move to a finer (800 - 1200) grit as you progress from start to finish.

Trying to keep the piece you are sanding true to the surface of the glass / paper just move the piece back and forth untill no part of the face is left unsanded. With the initial few passes you will quickly find the low spots in the face as they will be untouched. The old castings of any housing (water pump, carb sections, etc...) will tend to warp and distort over time and simply 'flatening' the faces will reduce leakage at the mating faces dramitically.

P.S. I use a Johnnie Walker bar mirror as my surface... for some unknown reason it seems to work best.:rolleyes:

[schultp]

The best way to cure that 'weeping' is to either find yourself (the hard way) a completely TRUE (Perfectly flat) block of aluminum or steel or (easy way) a 1/4" to 1/2" thick piece of glass. Lightly wet the surface with water or oil and lay down a sheet of wet / dry sandpaper. 440 is good to start with then move to a finer (800 - 1200) grit as you progress from start to finish.

Trying to keep the piece you are sanding true to the surface of the glass / paper just move the piece back and forth untill no part of the face is left unsanded. With the initial few passes you will quickly find the low spots in the face as they will be untouched. The old castings of any housing (water pump, carb sections, etc...) will tend to warp and distort over time and simply 'flatening' the faces will reduce leakage at the mating faces dramitically.

P.S. I use a Johnnie Walker bar mirror as my surface... for some unknown reason it seems to work best.:rolleyes:

These don't really weep enough where they need to be worked on. It is so miniscule that I have never felt a wetness. It just gets a yellow-brown haze on the surface of the lower bowl portion of the carb. I am aware of the glass plate trick from owning a Zenith carb prior to the Rochester. I'll leave well enough alone for now but will use your suggestion if it becomes more of any issue.

Back to the original posting....any update on the new carb?

Paul.

[navydevildoc]

Back to the original posting....any update on the new carb?


The Weber carb went on with minimal fuss, after I realized I didn't have the correct bellcrank on the accelerator linkage.

In fact, the engine ran so well afterwards I went and snapped a rear drive axle.

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6165

But, on a related note, a friend of mine loved my new Series IIA that he went and bought a series III that had popped up on eBay out in the Mojave. After riding around with him, I can tell the difference between his recently rebuilt 9:1 motor and my very tired 7:1. So for sure I will be giving this block some TLC and new heads.

[oldredbugeye]

has the truck had a new gas cap..iirc some had vented gas caps.."my 69 didnt" i bought a new gas cap once and my bugeye acted the same way..i called our host and mark said "take the rubber gasket out of the new cap"..i did and it ran fine..turns out not enuff air was gettting into the systems..you can tell in this way..take off you gas cap if you hear a swish of air..then remove the rubber gasket from the gas cap..also when i bought this truck it had a rochester carb..i found out that some of these leak gas and can "wash out" you piston bore..i went with a webber 1 barrel From RN..and have never had a problem with it..as stated above you'll need an adapter plate in some instance's..i was lucky and didnt..hope this helps

Bill