patching bulkhead

[scott]

hey all, i cut out some rust on the right hand footwell, patched it and got a nice seam weld on the sides and top of a 14x4" patch but the patch should have been a bit wider. the bottom edge has a couple of good welds and some gaps. i'm thinking of filling the gaps with some caulk. any thoughts on this? thanks

[leafsprung]

do you just want it done, or do you want it done right?

[scott]

right would mean removing the patch and making it wider, or at least laying another patch over the bottom of the first and down the footwell. this means lugging my buddy's welder back over here. 1659my welding is fair. ran into a problem when the thin sheet metal of the foot well melted away. orginal patch footwell overlap was only a 1/2". i got some good penetration across the bottom so structurally i'm happy. just thought i could prevent water from getting to the underside of my carpet with a bead of caulk. this truck will never be a show truck. it's made to be off road. so i'm more concerned with function over form.

[Eric W S]

Re-weld it. It's the spine of your rover. It deserves better than caulk regardless of it's intended use. Plus, you'll get to practice your welding.

[I Leak Oil]

You've got it torn down that far and have put that much work into it already. Why not just make it right? The caulking will most likely come back to bite you or the next owner in the arse. Don't be an SPO!:nono:
Jason T.

[scott]

damnyouall, cracks like "or done right?" and don't be a "SPO" means i gotta go make another patch...and i at the speed i work i'll never get the motor back in...

and speaking of motors does anyone know the legnth of a new cold start cable housing?

[solihull109]

Well if doing something right is beyond your grasp, maybe you should hire it out.
You never have enough time to do it right the first time, but you always have enough time to do it over...
If you're planning on keeping the truck, do yourself the favor and fix it right, you'll be much happier with the finished project.:thumb-up:

[scott]

it's not beyond me, i just overestimated the old sheet metal. cut away all the really rotted, and when i cleaned up the rest i guess i hoped it was still thick enough to weld. no problem. just wish i had more free time. next to driving it, working on it is some of my happiest times. i just really want to put it back in the dirt

[I Leak Oil]

damnyouall, cracks like "or done right?" and don't be a "SPO" means i gotta go make another patch...and i at the speed i work i'll never get the motor back in...


You love it here and you know it......As for the motor...Do you need us to give you some advice on what to do with it before IT goes back in?:D

Jason T.

[thixon]

I'm all for doing it right, but if positively dont want to take out the patch panel you already have in, and don't care about the looks, then why not just weld up the gap instead of caulking?

[scott]

You love it here and you know it......As for the motor...Do you need us to give you some advice on what to do with it before IT goes back in?:D

Jason T.

motor is done, 8.5 head, shave a bit off the block, 2.5 cam, new bearings, balanced crank, new timing crap, new seals. new paint and all new grade 8 bolts (they look nice all yellow and shiney) it's just sitting there on the stand and it and my wings and a bunch off other parts have force my wife's lr3 to park in the drive. motor has been done for a couple of months. i just didn't want to put it back in a diry bay so i start cleaning it up and find the rot under the right wing on the bulkhead.

thix, i can't weld that gap. it was created as the original footwell sheet metal after being sanded down on both sides has become so thin that i melted away most of the 1/2" overlap of the patch. my patch material is thicker (14 gauge) galvanized sheet metal. what i will be doing next w/e is making another patch that overlaps the first and probably goes all the way down. after i get a good weld i'll cut away the old from the inside. it'll all get a por15 covering before i spray on the limestone.

[Rineheitzgabot]

I'm not against caulking it. You seem fairly clear that it is not being restored, and will never be a show car.

The bulkhead is not the spine of the vehicle, the frame would probably be the spine. The bulkhead is more like a pair of underwear on the Series "anatomy" (to stick with the physiological metaphor) Is it important? You bet. Not sure that it's as important (for your purposes) as everybody here thinks.

Brand new cars are filled with caulk, in some cases the caulk even has structural purposes.

Two caveats: 1. I can't really tell how big the gap is from the picture, and I can't tell from your description, what the orientation of the gap is. So, if it is too big, I wouldn't do it. But if it is small enough to caulk, this begs the question that Thixon had, "why not fill it with weld?". 2. I really don't know what kind of torsion the bulkhead sees. If it sees enough, the caulk will crack and fall out after it hardens.

No matter what you do at this point, it will not be show quality. It has already been hammered, cut, heated, and manipulated, and now looks like the surface of a lake, and cutting it out and starting over will probably make that worse.

I would still consider filling it with weld, using brass on the other side of the gap while building up. Or cut a patch for just the gap. If you still think this is too much work for what you gain, then caulk it.

[Eric W S]

I'm not against caulking it. You seem fairly clear that it is not being restored, and will never be a show car.

The bulkhead is not the spine of the vehicle, the frame would probably be the spine. The bulkhead is more like a pair of underwear on the Series "anatomy" (to stick with the physiological metaphor) Is it important? You bet. Not sure that it's as important (for your purposes) as everybody here thinks.

Brand new cars are filled with caulk, in some cases the caulk even has structural purposes.

Two caveats: 1. I can't really tell how big the gap is from the picture, and I can't tell from your description, what the orientation of the gap is. So, if it is too big, I wouldn't do it. But if it is small enough to caulk, this begs the question that Thixon had, "why not fill it with weld?". 2. I really don't know what kind of torsion the bulkhead sees. If it sees enough, the caulk will crack and fall out after it hardens.

No matter what you do at this point, it will not be show quality. It has already been hammered, cut, heated, and manipulated, and now looks like the surface of a lake, and cutting it out and starting over will probably make that worse.

I would still consider filling it with weld, using brass on the other side of the gap while building up. Or cut a patch for just the gap. If you still think this is too much work for what you gain, then caulk it.

Underwear? Physio? :confused: Fashionable, maybe. A good anology for underwear would be powdercoating or painting the frame whcih covers it (and protects it from the elements). If you think of your spine, or any biped's, then the anology is correct as it would run vertically.

Anything that you can't easily replace is better off repaired properly. Trust me. I scoured just about everyone in the rover community looking for a replacement bulkhead. Ike and Marc were the only two to that either had a bulkhead or could get one. Ike is pretty much the only one doing what I would call a correct factory restoration at a damn good price as well. That includes cornflakes and Lanny Clark, and the Rover Ranch, and... You get the idea.

Love thy bulkhead. When is restoring anything a bad thing?

[scott]

i had to refinish the floor of a 97 chevy p/u. seams running from footwell to the rear of the cab were spotwelded and caulked. my welds are structurally sound. it would problably hold up to a passenger doing one of those phantom brake stomps during one of those oh my god moments.

the next owner would be one of my kids or a savage yard so i'm not concerned with screwing anyone over. i guess what i was looking for from you guys was confirmation on my shortcut. i'm counting one for and a few against. guess it's time to have another beer and make the call.

[daveb]

just put another patch over it. weld it up. no big deal. moisture is the enemy. keep your enemies closer does not apply in this case. seam seal when you are done. caulk is for bathtubs and other household repairs. not getting into semantic arguments equating to certain human body parts. bulkhead is important and structural, not a place for cheesy repairs.

[I Leak Oil]

Well if it's not going to be done even close to right then I vote for covering it with duct tape and squirting some undercoating over it!
Scott, this is your truck and you are going to do what you want to it. You will also have to live with it. Do you want to be visiting this same problem in a few years or do you want to be done with it for a long time so you can move on to better rover projects?
The bulkhead is important. The clutch and brake pedals mount to it, the doors mount to it, the floor boards mount to it, the door thresholds mount to it, the windshield frame mounts to it, the bonnet mounts to it, the fenders mount to it, brake lines and clutch lines might be mounted to it, electrical wiring and devices are mounted to it or run through it, the heater is probably mounted to it, the bulkhead itself is mounted directly to the frame. My unmolested, non-rusted original bulkhead flexes quite a bit under hard steering since the column and steering box mounting bracket are bolted directly to it. It's neither a spine or a pair of underwear, it is an important part of the vehicle. I guess if it were a pair of underwear you could either clean them or wear them as is, skid marks and all....:eek:
Jason T.

[thixon]

Eric,
Finding a replacement bulkhead is tough. Fixing one isnt that bad. Ike does great work, and deserves the money he gets. However, plenty of people complete their own high quality restos all the time. Scott can always go back and do it full on if he wishes later.

Scott,
I read your post about the metal being too thin. Stinks, but those are the breaks. IF it were me, I'd put the truck back together, get it driving, and run the damn thing. If the caulk/patch goes to H E double hockey sticks, then yank the bulkhead later and put a new footwell in it. Based on your posts, none of that is beyond your abilities, and yanking the bulkhead would take you an afternoon. Its a truck, not a model, so get it on the road.

[Cosmic88]

Not that my "low range" opinion probably means much to some folks in this case, but... as much fun as it would be to get back out there and drive around in your favorite auto, admit it or not, the proper repair and modification of any part of these Rovers can be (and usually is) just as rewarding as operating them.

I think this is why most of us have Old Rovers... 'cause they require our constant input and care.

I say fix it right (to your standards) and get back on the road.

[Rineheitzgabot]

Travis,

Thanks for the support. After my post yesterday, a person might have thought that I suggested for Scott to tear heads off of puppies, and drink their blood with no mercy, while laughing.

I was not trying to persudae Scott to caulk, only suggesting it was okay to caulk if it fits his needs and expectations.

Scott,

A 4" (4-inch, right?) gap that is sealed up with caulk, isn't going to hurt a damn thing on your car, as long as you are okay with it. It isn't going to hurt it structurally, and theres nobody out there that owns a Series, that has driven through a sizable amount of water, and not had it leak. If there is, then they need another hobby other than Land Rovers, because clearly, they spend all of their time making it waterproof.

It's your truck. Live your life. If you have other things in your life, other than your Series, and don't want to take time away from, caulk it.

Do as Thixon said and get after it later, when you tear it down again, and replace the whole foot well.

Believe me, I know to some on here, what I am suggesting is borderline blasphemous, but there is some value in living one's life, and not just preparing for it. I know, I know, some might say that the living is done through the preparing (meaning that, fixing the bulkhead is part of the enjoyment), but, I think the very fact that Scott is doubting whether or not to use caulk, suggests that he prefers to be driving the thing, rather than working on it.

Once you do all of that, call me, and we can talk about how to capture puppies for plan B.

- Dr. Gary, PHD in Psychiatry (kidding):rolleyes: .

[scott]

thanks all. still haven't decided. thinking of another patch. definately will be redoing this in a few years when the freak'n job doen't eat up 40 hrs/wk.

mmm, puppy blood...i think i'll start with the wife's schnauzer.

i am keeping my eyes open for a parts series. i wouldn't mind pulling a bulkhead, completely refurbishing it and swaping out my slow quick fix. i do love workin on it but driving it is better, much better

whatever i do, watch for pics. i hope to be ready to paint by sunday.

[Eric W S]

Talk to Jim Coryat at the Land Rover Ranch. He is dialed in and may be able to point you to a local parts truck.

[scott]

well a couple of weeks has past and finally got back to it. started w/ a new welder's helment. a flash visor made all the difference. i slowly weld welds to welds 'till i bridged the gaps. now i have a 1/2" wide, 1/4" thick weld all the way across the footwell just above the top of the three verticlely running ribs. it's ugly but i'm claiming it. i'll hit with a grinder this week and maybe get to paint next weekend.