2.25 Diesel

[kidrover86]

I will be performing a mechanical restoration of a series IIa 109 this summer. We are considering swapping the petrol for a diesel and running biodiesel. Does anybody have experience with the 2.25 diesel? I believe they are the same block as the gas and it should mate fine with the tranny right? Also, does anybody know the approx. output of the diesel? I assume it produces more torque. Thanks in advance!

[SafeAirOne]

I will be performing a mechanical restoration of a series IIa 109 this summer. We are considering swapping the petrol for a diesel and running biodiesel. Does anybody have experience with the 2.25 diesel? I believe they are the same block as the gas and it should mate fine with the tranny right? Also, does anybody know the approx. output of the diesel? I assume it produces more torque. Thanks in advance!

Although you CAN use the 2.25 diesel, it'll work HARD hauling around a 109. My 2.5 diesel, which also mates right up with a 4-cyl bellhousing, has it's work cut out for it pulling my 109 around; I can't imagine putting a lower-displacement diesel in a 109.

Generally, on gas engines and a diesel engines with the same displacement, the diesel will have less horsepower. This, as I understand it, is the reason Rover developed the 2.5 diesel--So it could have roughtly the same output as the 2.25 petrol.

Just my $0.02...

[leafsprung]

2.25 Diesel produces LESS torque than the 2.25 gas. Common misconception. It does make peak torque at much lower RPMs though.

[superstator]

I'd always heard the rule of thumb for a basic non-turbo diesel was about 30-40% less fuel used for the same displacement, but also 10-15% less power both in HP and peak torque.

In any case, the 2.25d in my 109 gets the job done, but barely. Without an OD, I'd say my top speed is about 45mph, 50 if I'm feeling saucy. With the OD I could reach 55 or 60 on a flat road with some patience. Throw in a hill of any kind and all bets are off. Around town though I've actually been pretty happy with it, but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody unless you're fully prepared to be the slowest vehicle on the road.

[kidrover86]

Good to know thanks guys. Its lookin like we might just drop in one of those new high compression ratio 2.25 petrol's and call it a day.

[yorker]

I'd always heard the rule of thumb for a basic non-turbo diesel was about 30-40% less fuel used for the same displacement, but also 10-15% less power both in HP and peak torque.



I'm not even sure the increase in MPG is worth it (on road anyway)- What do 2.25d's get as a rule? 25mpg? I've seen well tuned 2.25 petrols do almost 20 mpg.

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=155302

[leafsprung]

they get 30 with relative ease. They are pretty efficient.



new high compression ratio 2.25 petrol's and call it a day.

Just do a nice rebuild or convert to a real motor

[yorker]

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/enginePwrSpecs.htm

[superstator]

I'm not even sure the increase in MPG is worth it (on road anyway)- What do 2.25d's get as a rule? 25mpg? I've seen well tuned 2.25 petrols do almost 20 mpg.

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=155302

I'd guess I get about 25-30 around town, less on the highway where it really struggles. The real advantage to me is being able to use biodiesel or diesel according to whim, and of course reliability. I like knowing that I could burn the electrics to the ground, and as long as that engine is turning over I can still limp home.

[yorker]

I'd guess I get about 25-30 around town, less on the highway where it really struggles. The real advantage to me is being able to use biodiesel or diesel according to whim, and of course reliability. I like knowing that I could burn the electrics to the ground, and as long as that engine is turning over I can still limp home.


30mpg isn't so bad- maybe I was thinking UK gallons? I have a spare 2.25d sitting in the garage and I like the idea of 30mpg, less volatile fuel, etc. I'm just not sure I could deal with even less performance than a 2.25p in today's world. My LR's are all like little time machines but I can't shake the feeling that that would be turning back the clock too far with regard to on road performance. I keep thinking about all the 23 window VW busses that would pass me going uphill...:D

[Eric W S]

I wonder how a Turner 2.25 D would be? I wonder if it would make it any better?

[superstator]

I doubt it. They don't make a "performance" diesel head that I know of - it's not like a petrol where you can monkey with the way the fuel and air mix, or shave it for better compression. All you can do is feed it more air. I have wondered what a low pressure supercharger would do, but I think at that point you may as well find a decent 200tdi for a similar price.

[Eric W S]

I doubt it. They don't make a "performance" diesel head that I know of - it's not like a petrol where you can monkey with the way the fuel and air mix, or shave it for better compression. All you can do is feed it more air. I have wondered what a low pressure supercharger would do, but I think at that point you may as well find a decent 200tdi for a similar price.

"Turner Engineering produces performance gasflowed cylinder heads for Rover V8 petrol, 2.25 & 2.5 petrol 4 cylinder engines and 2.5 Diesel, 2.5 Turbo Diesel, 200 & 300TDI diesel engines."

From their website. Also has several testimonials regarding the improvements for diesels of all types from the 2.25 to the 300tdi...

I have never tuned a diesel, but from the products out there you can do more to it than adjust intake...

I'd like to drive one. If it was the same as the HP petrol engine, it would be worth it...

[kidrover86]

The engine is pretty shot we were thinking of just coring it and getting a new one. Unless you still think it would be cheaper to rebuild the entire thing? With all the rebuild parts kits rovers north offered it was going to be around the same price as a crate motor. Maybe there are cheaper places to get parts?

[superstator]

But, if you look at their pricelist, they only have perfomance heads available for the 200tdi and 300tdi, and all the testimonials for 2.25's are either for petrol gasflows, or just basic diesel head replacements. I don't doubt they can make some big improvements to the newer forced induction engines, but on an old indirect NA heap like the 2.25 there's only so much that you can do.

That said, if they'd like to send me a sample head I'd happily give it a review :). I would love to be proven wrong...

[Eric W S]

The engine is pretty shot we were thinking of just coring it and getting a new one. Unless you still think it would be cheaper to rebuild the entire thing? With all the rebuild parts kits rovers north offered it was going to be around the same price as a crate motor. Maybe there are cheaper places to get parts?

Price it out. Several vendors sell parts and rebuild kits for the 2.25. A turner crate motor isn't exactly cheap... Hell you could get a pretty nice small block 350 for the price...

EwS

[leafsprung]

Hell you could get a pretty nice small block 350 for the price...

More like a GM performance 383 stoker crate motor plus some change left over. Turner doesnt do anything a decent machine shop cant do . . .

[solihull109]

What about a buick 225 V6. Yes, the "odd fire". They pull decent, and when off road, you can retard the timing so it idles at 2-300 rpm, just like a tractor.
You can also build the motor, and for all you purists, it IS a buick motor after all.

Or, what Ike said. But supercharge that pig!:D

[kidrover86]

I would love to swap in a short block but the financier wants to keep it as british as possible. As I understand the 300tdi parts are hard to find stateside?

[superstator]

Ordering direct from the UK is pretty easy these days, though. I've bought diesel parts from lrseries.com and a couple individuals with good luck. You do take a little more risk that way - I'd hate to have to try an return something to a company 8 timezones away - but it can be worth it at times.

[Eric W S]

I would love to swap in a short block but the financier wants to keep it as british as possible. As I understand the 300tdi parts are hard to find stateside?

Our hosts can get 300tdi parts without issue.